Phil Rogers on Sox quest to find leadoff man

[lostfan]

Alexei probably isn't going to win any gold gloves (especially if he plays SS) but he is FAR from a horrific defender. To label Alexei as a "horrific" defender is asinine.

He wasn't horrific, but he definitely wasn't that good, either. He made some great athletic plays which drew attention, but he blew a lot of routine ones, too. He was inconsistent.

[sircaffey]

I'll sit back and wait for the stat posters to reveal his mediocre zone ratings, etc. He had poor range considering his athletic ability, and struggled with routine plays after the ASB. Prior to the ASB, I thought he was a potential Gold Glove candidate.

 

I can't split up his halves, but his overall +/- was -8 which sucks, good for 27th. His range factor was 4.99 however, which was better than such players as Roberts and Pedroia.

[chisox2334]

horrific is 2007 at 3b aka gonzalez

[scenario]

Here are the zone ratings of all 2Bs in MLB who started over 50 games at second this season...

(GS = Games Started)

 

# NAME GS ZR

1 Mark Ellis, Oak 114 .868

2 Adam Kennedy, StL 74 .861

3 Dustin Pedroia, Bos 155 .854

4 Chase Utley, Phi 157 .844

5 Clint Barmes, Col 54 .839

6 Brandon Phillips, Cin 140 .834

7 Placido Polanco, Det 136 .833

8 Mark Grudzielanek, KC 85 .832

9 Alexi Casilla, Min 94 .830

10 Brian Roberts, Bal 151 .829

11 Aaron Hill, Tor 53 .826

12 Asdrubal Cabrera, Cle 87 .823

13 Felipe Lopez, Was/StL 89 .822

14 Joe Inglett, Tor 62 .822

15 Howie Kendrick, LAA 90 .820

16 Ian Kinsler, Tex 120 .819

17 Jamey Carroll, Cle 66 .819

18 Alexei Ramirez, CWS 117 .817

19 Rickie Weeks, Mil 118 .815

20 Mark DeRosa, ChC 80 .814

21 Akinori Iwamura, TB 151 .811

22 Robinson Cano, NYY 154 .810

23 Jeff Kent, LA 114 .810

24 Tadahito Iguchi, Phi/SD 73 .808

25 Kazuo Matsui, Hou 94 .807

26 Jose Lopez, Sea 139 .805

27 Dan Uggla, Fla 144 .803

28 Freddy Sanchez, Pit 131 .803

29 Kelly Johnson, Atl 135 .796

30 Edgar Gonzalez, SD 66 .795

31 Orlando Hudson, Ari 105 .790

32 Ray Durham, Mil/SF 85 .780

33 Damion Easley, NYM 60 .762

34 Luis Castillo, NYM 78 .761

35 Eugenio Velez, SF 50 .760

Edited December 7, 2008 by scenario

[scenario]

Putting those numbers in perspective... there are alot of people who feel Asdrubal Cabrera is a 'defensive stud'. And his zone rating is not really any better than Alexei's.

 

I just did a quick calc to see what the difference is in terms of balls they would get to...

 

Over a full season of play, it's approximately 5. In other words, the difference between their two stats suggests that in a season, ACab would get to approx. 5 balls that Alexei would not.

 

 

Edited December 7, 2008 by scenario

[chisox2334]

hey scenario do you have furcals stats

[fathom]

Putting those numbers in perspective... there are alot of people who feel Asdrubal Cabrera is a 'defensive stud'. And his zone rating is not really any better than Alexei's.

 

Yet people think that Weeks is a disaster at 2nd base, and Ramirez's numbers are very similar.

[scenario]

Yet people think that Weeks is a disaster at 2nd base, and Ramirez's numbers are very similar.

 

And people think Iwamura's a pretty good defender and his ZR is lower than Weeks.

 

 

Which all helps illustrate that ZR alone does not provide a meaningful way to determine whether someone is a good defender.

 

Especially when you use only one year of ZR numbers, because they tend to vary quite a bit from year to year.

 

[chisox2334]

and for hudson guys looke where he is ranked. I know furcal seems like guy we like have and leadoff. I just wanna know what makes that because last 2 seasons hes been on decline and injury prone

[scenario]

hey scenario do you have furcals stats

 

Look at ESPN's statistics and you can slice and dice by position, sort them by whatever you want, etc.

 

Link

 

 

[Milkman delivers]

If the sox sign Furcal, move TCM to CF and let getz/nix/lilli fight it out; personally i think getz takes it in spring training and puts up career numbers similar to Adam Kennedy/Steve Sax/Mark Grudzielanek and with the potential for a little more power. all in all a very solid second basemen and 2 hitter.

 

If thats the route the sox go, i would let fields and betemitt play it out for 3B with Beckham sliding over there in the not to distant future.

 

Keep Dye and Jenks and sign Penny.

 

S Furcal SS

L Getz 2B

R Quentin RF

L Thome DH

R Dye LF

R Konerko 1B

L AJP C

R Ramirez CF

R Fields 3B hopefully he develops.

 

MB

JD

GF

CR/AP/JM

Penny

 

going into '10

 

Hopefully Danks is ready to step into the Outfield

Let Thome go, Move Konerko to DH and provided he has panned out move fields over to 1B let Slayer take over at 3B

 

Wow, that's a lot of abbreviations. I honestly couldn't figure out all of those starters.

[chisox2334]

Look at ESPN's statistics and you can slice and dice by position, sort them by whatever you want, etc.

 

Link

 

thanks man

[GoodAsGould]

Wow, that's a lot of abbreviations. I honestly couldn't figure out all of those starters.

 

Clayton Richard, Aaron Poreda, and Jeff Marquez

[Kyyle23]

Wow, that's a lot of abbreviations. I honestly couldn't figure out all of those starters.

 

all I see is CR/AP

[Milkman delivers]

Clayton Richard, Aaron Poreda, and Jeff Marquez

 

Thank you.

[fathom]

all I see is CR/AP

 

That could be a great acronym if they're our 4/5 starters and they stink.

[Kyyle23]

That could be a great acronym if they're our 4/5 starters and they stink.

 

Its an acronym I dont want to use, but its funny

[scenario]

That could be a great acronym if they're our 4/5 starters and they stink.

 

LOL. Yeah, I can just imagine what will happen.

 

"The back end of our rotation is CR/AP."

 

 

[harfman77]

It makes me apprehensive to sign someone whose speed is a major tool that has been injured the last two seasons (Pods) and will be in his mid-thirties for the majority of the contract. Furcal was a good signing 4 years ago, but I think that ship has sailed, and the Dodgers lack of interest should throw up a red flag, like maybe they know something that we dont.

 

I think our leadoff hitter will come from the CF position, and it may be an acquisition for another young prospect, maybe a package of the pieces that we have acquired for a year of Chone Figgins and Peter Bourjos, Cameron Maybin, or Dexter Fowler they would all fit KW's plan to get younger, be more athletic, and improve the defense. Save the money and get a pitcher instead of spending on a big question mark like Furcal.

[fathom]

It makes me apprehensive to sign someone whose speed is a major tool that has been injured the last two seasons (Pods) and will be in his mid-thirties for the majority of the contract. Furcal was a good signing 4 years ago, but I think that ship has sailed, and the Dodgers lack of interest should throw up a red flag, like maybe they know something that we dont.

 

I think our leadoff hitter will come from the CF position, and it may be an acquisition for another young prospect, maybe a package of the pieces that we have acquired for a year of Chone Figgins and Peter Bourjos, Cameron Maybin, or Dexter Fowler they would all fit KW's plan to get younger, be more athletic, and improve the defense. Save the money and get a pitcher instead of spending on a big question mark like Furcal.

 

He's 31 now, which means a 4 year deal would end when he's 35.

[SoxFan1]

It makes me apprehensive to sign someone whose speed is a major tool that has been injured the last two seasons (Pods) and will be in his mid-thirties for the majority of the contract. Furcal was a good signing 4 years ago, but I think that ship has sailed, and the Dodgers lack of interest should throw up a red flag, like maybe they know something that we dont.

 

I think our leadoff hitter will come from the CF position, and it may be an acquisition for another young prospect, maybe a package of the pieces that we have acquired for a year of Chone Figgins and Peter Bourjos, Cameron Maybin, or Dexter Fowler they would all fit KW's plan to get younger, be more athletic, and improve the defense. Save the money and get a pitcher instead of spending on a big question mark like Furcal.

If I'm not mistaken, the Dodgers "lack of interest" comes from Furcal's contract demands. I'm pretty sure I remember them really wanting to re-sign Furcal shortly after the season ended.

[Chisoxfn]

If I'm not mistaken, the Dodgers "lack of interest" comes from Furcal's contract demands. I'm pretty sure I remember them really wanting to re-sign Furcal shortly after the season ended.

They did and I still believe they have interest in bringing him back.

[SoxFan1]

They did and I still believe they have interest in bringing him back.

Well I have interest in making him the starting SS and lead off man for the White Sox.

[ThunderBolt]

"The back end of our rotation is CR/AP."

Hey, if they're any good we can say, "Hah, Liriano? You Ain't got CR/AP!"

[BearSox]

So because Williams says something, it's the gospel?

 

The Sox may have middle infielders that don't suck(the jury is still out) but the same can't be said for CF. The Sox don't have a starter on the roster right now. On top of it, this team doesn't have anyone for the lead off spot.

 

Furcal can fill both those spots, with Alexei being able to slide in CF.

 

The Furcal talk is no more silly than you claiming Chin-lung Hu is going to be a star based on what you saw in the Futures Game.

You know what, I don't care, keep on dreaming that we are going to make a play for Furcal. It really doesn't matter to me what KW said about Alexei in the offseason, I find it quite obvious that the team's intention back from July of last year was to eventually move Alexei to SS. I once have thought about us making a move for Furcal, but I just don't see the fit. I'd say there's a 99.9 chance that KW and Ozzie have had every intention of making Alexei the starting SS since July.

 

Lol, and can you please show me a quote where I said Hu would be a star? I remember I liked him a lot, especially before we got Alexei, but I don't think I ever said he'd be a star. I still think there's a good chance he can be a decent player. We must not forget he was a rookie who was in his first go-around in the MLB.