What Happened to Pursuing Orlando Hudson?

[SoxFan1]

I don't believe anyone in the Sox organization ever mentioned Hudson. It was all writers speculation.

Before all the moves made so far, it seemed like a perfect fit. Alexei could move to SS, Hudson is signed to play 2B and bat at the top of the order, then you are only left to fill 3B/CF.

[BaseballNick]

I don't believe anyone in the Sox organization ever mentioned Hudson. It was all writers speculation.

 

Cowley has been throwing the names of Hudson and Figgins around since at least the middle of last season. Acquiring both players made a whole lot of sense, but you can argue that neither makes sense right now. I still like Figgins though.

[scenario]

Anybody thinking we're still looking for a 3B ought to listen to the KW teleconference again.

 

There doesn't seem to be any doubt that Fields is going to be our 3B next year.

 

 

[southsider2k5]

Cowley has been throwing the names of Hudson and Figgins around since at least the middle of last season. Acquiring both players made a whole lot of sense, but you can argue that neither makes sense right now. I still like Figgins though.

 

How good has Cowley been at historically projecting who the Sox will go after? I'll be honest, I don't remember anyone significant being in a JC column who ended up with the Sox.

[103 mph screwball]

Anybody thinking we're still looking for a 3B ought to listen to the KW teleconference again.

 

There doesn't seem to be any doubt that Fields is going to be our 3B next year.

Until he gets traded. KW was set with Ben Davis and Burke as the catching duo until AJ was signed. You absolutely have a point that the press conference conveyed that there is no doubt that Fields will be the 3B. I believe that KW meant it, until he finds something better. I think KW is capable of misdirection to hide the true intention of the team to avoid a situation like when Detroit came in and stole Miggy or the Angels swooped in and dumped Fort Knox on Hunter. What you say is true and makes sense, but I think it is really smoke and mirrors. My opinion is only based on my observations of KW over the years and not what he has said this offseason. Say what you want about KW, he learns from his mistakes.

[Princess Dye]

The other potential 2b guys who were acquired.... that's all low risk.

 

Hudson could still make sense to bring in, with the others battling for backup roles.

 

 

 

I agree that, in an ideal situation, you dont want to move Hudson or Alexei to CF....but if you can get the best top of the order OBP guy available (be it Furcal or Hudson).... and age wise you're not going dinosaur route by acquiring him (you wouldnt be)

 

then moving someone into CF is fine. After all, Alexei is going to have a better all-around game as a CFer than Anderson (batting) or Owens (arm, and well, everything). Wasn't Alexei used in the outfield in Cuba more than 2b anyway?

 

 

 

 

Also the long wait is no surprise. I'm sure Furcal and Hudson's agents want to wait for NYY to sign Sabathia or not and see if they can be the one who gets the big overpay from them. Saying this b/c you always hear about Cano trades, but I'd bet they'd rather spend on CC than one of the IF guys.

Edited December 9, 2008 by Princess Dye

[caulfield12]

Furcal or Hudson for 2 years, 3 tops...that might be okay.

 

Still, in this type of economy, no way in H--- will KW go anything close to 4-5 years or $10 million per season on Orlando Hudson. Like David DeJesus, he's a nice complementary player to have, but he's not a superstar by any stretch of the imagination, and KW's posture is that we can get a much much cheaper approximation in Lillibridge.

 

Moving Hudson to CF makes him even less valuable, exposes him to any number of injuries and just doesn't make any long-term sense. KW, the FO and the scouts know where they are envisioning Beckham's major league positional home, and if it's 2B, then Hudson isn't a logical move.

[witesoxfan]

Of course, those complementary players are those that can be the difference between a .500 season and a 90 win season when it's all said and done. KW is going to make what he feels are the best moves for the organization while working within the budget.

[caulfield12]

Well, yes, by definition, all of the players we brought in before 2005 were "complementary."

 

L. Vizcaino

El Duque (I think he was the MOST expensive, around $5.5-6.5 million?)

Tad Iguchi (KW never even saw him play in person, just went off videotape)

AJ (had worn out his welcome quickly in SF)

Jermaine Dye (coming off injury, uncertain future at that point after the broken leg and other injuries)

Dustin Hermanson

Scott Podsednik

 

Of course, the main difference is we didn't sign any of them or bring them in on LONG-TERM (3+ years) FA deals and they certainly weren't making anywhere close to $10 million per season...El Duque was the closest.

[witesoxfan]

Well, yes, by definition, all of the players we brought in before 2005 were "complementary."

 

L. Vizcaino

El Duque (I think he was the MOST expensive, around $5.5-6.5 million?)

Tad Iguchi (KW never even saw him play in person, just went off videotape)

AJ (had worn out his welcome quickly in SF)

Jermaine Dye (coming off injury, uncertain future at that point after the broken leg and other injuries)

Dustin Hermanson

Scott Podsednik

 

Of course, the main difference is we didn't sign any of them or bring them in on LONG-TERM (3+ years) FA deals and they certainly weren't making anywhere close to $10 million per season...El Duque was the closest.

 

I don't view any of those players on the same scale as I do a Brian Roberts or Orlando Hudson. And neither Roberts nor Hudson nor any other player brought in will be brought in on a long-term basis. The most I'd see Hudson signing with the Sox for is 3 years plus some type of option for the 4th year, Roberts would be here only 1 year, and anybody else will probably be 3 years or less. If you really want to dig a bit, Linebrink's contract is probably the one outlier out of everyone's, and that probably has everything to do with Williams wanting him badly.

[caulfield12]

I think Octavio Dotel making $6.5 million as a set-up man would qualify as well...that's a lot of money to pay someone who's not the closer, not to mention the money committed to MacDougal, Linebrink and Thornton.

 

If anything, it was a reaction (or overreaction to some) to the 2006 and 2007 seasons, in terms of correcting past philosophical mistakes of going "cheap" on the bullpen and throwing lots of "good arms" without much experience into the melting pot and hoping to strike gold with a couple of them (like Aardsma and Sisco, for example)

[Princess Dye]

KW has said he wants to transition to a new core, not all out rebuild.

 

Therefore, I really see him finalizing something with the Reds (perhaps just for Bailey) only after he can be assured of attaining someone like Hudson to refill that $ slot of Dye's.

 

Because I think payroll only had to be slashed to the post-Javy-deal point....that's how i read KW's recent statements about payroll.

[Balta1701]

I think Octavio Dotel making $6.5 million as a set-up man would qualify as well...that's a lot of money to pay someone who's not the closer, not to mention the money committed to MacDougal, Linebrink and Thornton.

 

If anything, it was a reaction (or overreaction to some) to the 2006 and 2007 seasons, in terms of correcting past philosophical mistakes of going "cheap" on the bullpen and throwing lots of "good arms" without much experience into the melting pot and hoping to strike gold with a couple of them (like Aardsma and Sisco, for example)

While that's a bit much for Dotel for what he brings to the table, given the glut of closers on the market I really can't see him being moved. He's only got 1 year left on his deal, it's plausible that if the market turns around he's a guy we could offer arbitration to next year, and relief pitching is the one quantity teams are almost always looking for at the trading deadline.

[Princess Dye]

Do you guys think Hudson would take a 3 year deal? He turns 31 in two days..

 

It might necessitate a dealing of Dye to fit JR's financial needs. But it gets us a top of the order guy...and it allows us to later shift around people (Alexei to cf, Viciedo to lf) if and when Beckham is eventually ready.

[caulfield12]

Beckham 10% stays at SS in the big leagues, 20% 3B, 70% at second base.

 

I don't think we'll move Viciedo off 3B for Beckham. I think we'll have to figure out 1) if Viciedo's bat is ready to justify a spot in the line-up in LF or RF or possibly 1B and 2) that can't happen before ST.

[Princess Dye]

Beckham 10% stays at SS in the big leagues, 20% 3B, 70% at second base.

 

I don't think we'll move Viciedo off 3B for Beckham. I think we'll have to figure out 1) if Viciedo's bat is ready to justify a spot in the line-up in LF or RF or possibly 1B and 2) that can't happen before ST.

 

Viciedo to outfield i meant as more a down-the-road possibility. Writing him out of the current plans, leaving myself open to being happily surprised if it's anything different.

 

 

Regarding a potential threesome of Hudson, Alexei and Beckham... i feel there'd be a cf, ss, 2b all in there.. in one form or another. Hudson as an older player could be considered for lf/dh as well one day.

 

Basically, I'll take that problem on my hands if it gets me Hudson at the top of the order. The Central's winnable right now, so we need him there. I lived through Jose Valentin at ss, so I'll gladly live through one of those guys at the position.

 

 

 

Let me also point out that Alexei has a lot to prove at ss, and that many are assuming he would better at that than cf in the first place.

Edited December 10, 2008 by Princess Dye

[caulfield12]

Well, if we did end up trading Dye for Bailey and a prospect, we'd have a payroll approaching the $70 million mark, only about $5 million above the 2005 championship team. We'd have chopped off about 40% of the team's payroll from 2008.

 

I will believe it when I see it when the Cubs acquire Peavy and we go into the season with Getz/Lillibridge/Betemit, Owens/Anderson/Lillibridge, Fields/Viciedo/Betemit and Marquez/Poreda/Richard as the missing pieces at those positions.

[witesoxfan]

Viciedo to outfield i meant as more a down-the-road possibility. Writing him out of the current plans, leaving myself open to being happily surprised if it's anything different.

 

 

Regarding a potential threesome of Hudson, Alexei and Beckham... i feel there'd be a cf, ss, 2b all in there.. in one form or another. Hudson as an older player could be considered for lf/dh as well one day.

 

Basically, I'll take that problem on my hands if it gets me Hudson at the top of the order. The Central's winnable right now, so we need him there. I lived through Jose Valentin at ss, so I'll gladly live through one of those guys at the position.

 

 

 

Let me also point out that Alexei has a lot to prove at ss, and that many are assuming he would better at that than cf in the first place.

 

I would rather have had Valentin's defense at SS last year during his prime than Cabrera's. Valentin made some poor throws and bobbled easy plays, but he also had excellent range as well which more than made up for his mistakes. Jose Valentin was a damn fine defensive shortstop.

[caulfield12]

Not the old Valentin/Clayton argument!!!!!

 

Agreed, Valentin made a lot of errors on routine plays (just like Alexei Ramirez did this season, especially in the second half) but his range (whether measured by RF or your eyeballs) and his superior arm more than made up for it.

 

I don't have the game by game tracker from 2000, but I think the majority of errors he gave up didn't result in unearned runs, certainly most of them didn't cost the team victories.

 

Clayton, like Cabrera, made the routine plays more easily, but there were probably 50 balls that he either couldn't reach or his arm wasn't strong enough to get the out but which end up as outs with Valentin's arm and range.

 

This argument could go on and on forever. KW, eventually gave in and dealt Myette for Clayton and tried the ill-fated Valentin in CF experiment, which ended up getting Jose injured. Clayton and Mark Johnson formed the worst bottom duo of any modern-day baseball line-up in history, making Taveras look like Pujols/Bonds.

[witesoxfan]

Not the old Valentin/Clayton argument!!!!!

 

Agreed, Valentin made a lot of errors on routine plays (just like Alexei Ramirez did this season, especially in the second half) but his range (whether measured by RF or your eyeballs) and his superior arm more than made up for it.

 

I don't have the game by game tracker from 2000, but I think the majority of errors he gave up didn't result in unearned runs, certainly most of them didn't cost the team victories.

 

Clayton, like Cabrera, made the routine plays more easily, but there were probably 50 balls that he either couldn't reach or his arm wasn't strong enough to get the out but which end up as outs with Valentin's arm and range.

 

This argument could go on and on forever. KW, eventually gave in and dealt Myette for Clayton and tried the ill-fated Valentin in CF experiment, which ended up getting Jose injured. Clayton and Mark Johnson formed the worst bottom duo of any modern-day baseball line-up in history, making Taveras look like Pujols/Bonds.

 

Clayton's OPS through May 25th of 2001 was .293. That's impressive.

[Princess Dye]

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/pgStory?conte...p;photo=8948490

 

Rosenthal says Hudson's price will drop and potentially could end up with the Sox. Not really citing inside info or anything though.

 

At this link you have to scroll a few FA's up

Edited December 19, 2008 by Princess Dye

[greg775]

I wonder what KW has up his sleeve. We are not a better team right now than the end of teh season.

[Jordan4life_2007]

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/pgStory?conte...p;photo=8948490

 

Rosenthal says Hudson's price will drop and potentially could end up with the Sox. Not really citing inside info or anything though.

 

At this link you have to scroll a few FA's up

 

I'd love to have him. Not sure what you would do with Getz, who I'm very high on.

[NorthSideSox72]

I'd love to have him. Not sure what you would do with Getz, who I'm very high on.

Agreed, for the right deal, I'd love to add Hudson. I also like Getz, but I'm sure they could find a place for him, or trade him to someone who could.

 

[ThunderBolt]

I wonder what KW has up his sleeve. We are not a better team right now than the end of teh season.

Really, you don't think we'd of been better off with Q in LF and a healthy Fields at 3b instead of Wise and Uribe? We were a broken team at the end of last season.