A Look at how Kenny has done with trades.

[wilmot825]

Since everyone becomes a GM or critic on players when trades happen, I wanted to show Kenny Williams trades since becoming GM. From this I will rate how I think they work out and maybe we can find a medium for how this current trade of Jermaine Dye for Homer Bailey may turn out. I based my answer on who got the better deal by if the prospects made it into the majors, player received posted significant stats with new team, or team was successful that season. So HERE, WE, GO!

 

2000: Scott Eyre for Gary Glover- Advantage Tor. (Kenny's first trade as GM)

2001: Kip Wells, Josh Fogg, and Sean Lowe for Todd Ritchie- Advantage Pit.

2002: Chris Singleton for Willie Harris- Advantage Chi.

2002: Matt Guerrier for Damaso Marte and Edwin Yan- Push

2002: Ray Durham for Jon Adkins- Advantage Oak.

2002: Keith Foulke & Mark Johnson for Billy Koch and 2ptbnl (Neal Cotts & Daylon Holt)- Advantage Oak.

2003: Antonio Osuna for Orlando "El Duque" Hernandez- See Next Trade

2003: El Duque, Rocky Biddle, and Jeff Leifer for Bartolo Colon & Jorge Nunez- Advantage Chi.

2003: Wade Parrish for Ross Gload- Advantage Chi.

2003: Edwin Almonte, Royce Ring and Andrew Salvo for Roberto Alomar- Advantage Chi. (Slightly)

2003: Frank Francisco, Josh Rupe and Anthony Webster for Carl Everett- Advantage Chi. (Slightly)

2003: Aaron Miles for Juan Uribe- Push

2004: Jeremy Reed, Miguel Olivo and Mike Morse for Freddy Garcia and Ben Davis- Advantage Chi.

2004: Estaban Loaiza for Jose Contreras & Cash- Advantage Chi.

2004: Carlos Lee for Scott Podsednik, Luis Vizcaino, and ptbnl- Advantage Chi. (2005 is the only reason, plus Lee left)

2005: Alex Escobar for Jerry Owens- TBD

2005: Aaron Rowand, Daniel Haigwood and Gio Gonzalez for Jim Thome- Advantage Phi.

2005: Orlando Hernandez, Luis Vizcaino and Chris Young for Javier Vazquez- Advantage Chi. (Only Young Contributes)

2006: Joe Borchard for Matt Thornton- Advantage Chi.

2006: Neal Cotts for David Aardsma & Carlos Vazquez- Advantage Chi. Cubs

2006: Freddy Garcia for Gavin Floyd & Gio Gonzalez- Advantage Chi.

2006: Brandon McCarthy and David Paisano for Nick Masset, John Danks and Jacob Rasner- Advantage Chi.

2007: Jon Garland for Orlando Cabrera- Push

2007: Chris Carter for Carlos Quentin- Advantage Chi.

2007: Gio Gonzalez, Fautino De Los Santos and Ryan Sweeney for Nick Swisher- Advantage Oak.

2008: Nick Masset and Danny Richar for Ken Griffey Jr.- Advantage Cin. ( Right now)

 

Those are just the big name trades, there is obviously many more. But from this list you can see Kenny has gotten good since his first trade on 11/07/2000. Lets give it time.

Edited December 8, 2008 by wilmot825

[scenario]

There's a spreadsheet link on this page that lists some more trades too.

[wilmot825]

Thats what I used to do this

[Paint it Black]

Overall great work, but I have a few bones to pick:

 

"2003: Aaron Miles for Juan Uribe- Push" IMO, this one goes the white sox way by a long shot. Like it or not, Uribe was a a decent contributor to that world championship team, and also filled in quite nicely at 3rd last year. Miles is no more than a utility infielder.

 

2005: Aaron Rowand, Daniel Haigwood and Gio Gonzalez for Jim Thome- Advantage Phi. This made me yell at the computer. How do you justify the phillies won this deal? They sent us back Gonzalez so REALLY the only players that mattered were Rowand and Haigwood. Thome was the only one hitting to start the 2006 season, and still has put up very good numbers considering his age. Rowand booked for San Fran and a ton of cash, and the Phillies didn't win anything significant with him. We still have Thome. Just because Aaron Rowand runs into walls, it doesn't make him better than Jim Thome.

2008: Nick Masset and Danny Richar for Ken Griffey Jr.- Advantage Cin. ( Right now) I would split this one. Richar is a 5th infielder and Masset is a "meh" middle relief/long relief guy. Griffey didn't really put up numbers, but neither are Richar and Masset

 

[whitesoxfan101]

This is my ONLY hope with the Dye/Bailey trade if it's indeed true, this record tradewise. Because baseballwise, this trade is terrible.

[SoxFan1]

This is my ONLY hope with the Dye/Bailey trade if it's indeed true, this record tradewise. Because baseballwise, this trade is terrible.

I don't think you've made it quite clear what you think of the deal yet. Could you elaborate?

 

Seriously, relax. We get that you don't like the (proposed/rumored) deal, but give the 22 year old a chance to prove himself. Look what we did with Floyd, who had many more failed innings pitched in the majors with said "declining stuff" and other crap like that.

[earthshiner]

where's the Boomer trade?

[whitesoxfan101]

I don't think you've made it quite clear what you think of the deal yet. Could you elaborate?

 

Seriously, relax. We get that you don't like the (proposed/rumored) deal, but give the 22 year old a chance to prove himself. Look what we did with Floyd, who had many more failed innings pitched in the majors with said "declining stuff" and other crap like that.

 

All we gave up to get Floyd was a Freddy Garcia that just about all of us here knew was broken down, and we also get Gio in that trade. Completely different situation. And I will give Bailey a chance. I'm not going to boo the damn guy, and I HOPE I am wrong about him if he's indeed coming or way. In fact, I wish I had never seen him in person and that my brother wasn't a Reds fan so I wouldn't feel so bad about this.

[SoxFan1]

All we gave up to get Floyd was a Freddy Garcia that just about all of us here knew was broken down, and we also get Gio in that trade. Completely different situation. And I will give Bailey a chance. I'm not going to boo the damn guy, and I HOPE I am wrong about him if he's indeed coming or way. In fact, I wish I had never seen him in person and that my brother wasn't a Reds fan so I wouldn't feel so bad about this.

Well you've already proclaimed that he WON'T help the White Sox at all, so how exactly is that giving him a chance?

[bmags]

where's the Boomer trade?

 

for serious.

 

I had the same problems as well, and disagreed with some of these trades rankings.

[Paint it Black]

I posted this in the other thread, but I think it needs repeating

 

It makes a lot of sense to trade Dye. Awful range factor, but still could sell him on the fact that he has been one of the most consistent hitters the past 4 years or so. But with that being said, I'm not sure what the market for Dye is considering his contract and the relatively cheap/younger corner outfielders still in the free agent market.

[bmags]

All we gave up to get Floyd was a Freddy Garcia that just about all of us here knew was broken down, and we also get Gio in that trade. Completely different situation. And I will give Bailey a chance. I'm not going to boo the damn guy, and I HOPE I am wrong about him if he's indeed coming or way. In fact, I wish I had never seen him in person and that my brother wasn't a Reds fan so I wouldn't feel so bad about this.

 

It's easy to say this 3 years later, but at the time we all felt that we didn't get enough for a 17 game winner. And further, I feel like you saw two things that said he had a declining fastball and have therefore concluded that these are true and define the player homer bailey.

[dasox24]

There's a spreadsheet link on this page that lists some more trades too.

That spreadsheet is badass. Thanks for the link... It's crazy seeing names like Enemencio Pacheco and Humberto Qunitero that I've long since forgotten, but at the time, knew all about.

[Kalapse]

It's easy to say this 3 years later, but at the time we all felt that we didn't get enough for a 17 game winner. And further, I feel like you saw two things that said he had a declining fastball and have therefore concluded that these are true and define the player homer bailey.

Eh, speak for yourself. I LOVED that trade when it went down. Getting 2 young starting pitchers with considerable upside for a $10M starter who was throwing 86 MPH and showing obvious signs of shoulder problems was god damn coup. I was performing grand dances of joy and elation when that trade went down, if the Phillies had bothered to give Garcia a physical before finalizing the deal we likely would have been the ones to get 11 s***ty starts out of Freddy in '07 before he broke down for good.

[bmags]

Eh, speak for yourself. I LOVED that trade when it went down. Getting 2 young starting pitchers with considerable upside for a $10M starter who was throwing 86 MPH and showing obvious signs of shoulder problems was god damn coup. I was performing grand dances of joy and elation when that trade went down, if the Phillies had bothered to give Garcia a physical before finalizing the deal we likely would have been the ones to get 11 s***ty starts out of Freddy in '07 before he broke down for good.

 

Everyone said he was finished, but said we should've gotten more. Same with every trade we've ever made.

[caulfield12]

2000: Scott Eyre for Gary Glover- Advantage Tor. (Kenny's first trade as GM)

2001: Kip Wells, Josh Fogg, and Sean Lowe for Todd Ritchie- Advantage Pit.

2002: Chris Singleton for Willie Harris- Advantage Chi.

2002: Matt Guerrier for Damaso Marte and Edwin Yan- Push (not even close to a push, Guerrier did nothing for Pitt

2002: Ray Durham for Jon Adkins- Advantage Oak. Yes, but we saved paying Durham's salary so we could audition Harris to be the starter, unfortunately, we lost the draft picks because the belief was the Type A compensation draft pick system was going to disappear so KW wanted something back

2002: Keith Foulke & Mark Johnson for Billy Koch and 2ptbnl (Neal Cotts & Daylon Holt)- Advantage Oak.(Cotts was main cog in our World Championship team as the key lefty in the pen, Oakland never made it to World Series)

2003: Antonio Osuna for Orlando "El Duque" Hernandez- See Next Trade

2003: El Duque, Rocky Biddle, and Jeff Leifer for Bartolo Colon & Jorge Nunez- Advantage Chi.

2003: Wade Parrish for Ross Gload- Advantage Chi.

2003: Edwin Almonte, Royce Ring and Andrew Salvo for Roberto Alomar- Advantage Chi. (Slightly)

2003: Frank Francisco, Josh Rupe and Anthony Webster for Carl Everett- Advantage Chi. (Slightly) Francisco has one of the better arms in baseball, but very questionable "head"

2003: Aaron Miles for Juan Uribe- Push (not even close, Uribe had a huge impact in 2004 and was one of the main defensive stars in 2005)

2004: Jeremy Reed, Miguel Olivo and Mike Morse for Freddy Garcia and Ben Davis- Advantage Chi.

2004: Estaban Loaiza for Jose Contreras & Cash- Advantage Chi.

2004: Carlos Lee for Scott Podsednik, Luis Vizcaino, and ptbnl- Advantage Chi. (2005 is the only reason, plus Lee left)

2005: Alex Escobar for Jerry Owens- TBD (Alex Escobar will never, ever amount to anything...)

2005: Aaron Rowand, Daniel Haigwood and Gio Gonzalez for Jim Thome- Advantage Phi. (WHAT???)

2005: Orlando Hernandez, Luis Vizcaino and Chris Young for Javier Vazquez- Advantage Chi. (Only Young Contributes)

2006: Joe Borchard for Matt Thornton- Advantage Chi.

2006: Neal Cotts for David Aardsma & Carlos Vazquez- Advantage Chi. Cubs

2006: Freddy Garcia for Gavin Floyd & Gio Gonzalez- Advantage Chi.

2006: Brandon McCarthy and David Paisano for Nick Masset, John Danks and Jacob Rasner- Advantage Chi.

2007: Jon Garland for Orlando Cabrera- Push Not really, because we'll get the draft picks and not pay Garland $12 million to be "average"

2007: Chris Carter for Carlos Quentin- Advantage Chi.

2007: Gio Gonzalez, Fautino De Los Santos and Ryan Sweeney for Nick Swisher- Advantage Oak. Jury still out, depending on what Marquez/Betemit/Nunez do...Sweeney is a 4th outfielder, DLS might never get out of A ball and Gonzalez MIGHT be a loogy

2008: Nick Masset and Danny Richar for Ken Griffey Jr.- Advantage Cin. ( Right now) Neither will be major contributors, Griffey helped lead us down stretch and into playoffs

 

Sirotka for David Wells

Miguel Olivo for Chad Bradford...at the time, huge win for OAK but evolved into a major part of getting Freddy Garcia, key pitcher in 2005 run

Contreras for Loaiza

Jeff Abbott for Julio Ramirez

Aaron Myette for Royce Clayton

D'Angelo Jimenez for Scott Dunn/Jimenez for Quintero/Fernandez

any Sandy Alomar trade

Ginter for Timo Perez

James Baldwin for WRONG Barry/Berry, Onan Masaoka and Gary Majewski

Rauch/Majewski for Carl Everett

Kenny Lofton for Felix Diaz and a crafty lefty whose name escapes me

Bobby Howry for Frank Francisco

Edited December 8, 2008 by caulfield12

[RockRaines]

I'm sorry, but we clearly won the Garland trade.

[Dick Allen]

2002: Ray Durham for Jon Adkins- Advantage Oak. Yes, but we saved paying Durham's salary so we could audition Harris to be the starter, unfortunately, we lost the draft picks because the belief was the Type A compensation draft pick system was going to disappear so KW wanted something back

Actually, the White Sox sent most of Durham's remaining salary to Oakland to complete this deal. Oakland only had to pay Ray the minimum the rest of the season. It was an awful trade. KW was as high on Adkins as he is on Marquez, if not higher. He really became defensive when questioned about Adkins, who was called an average prospect. KW said the White Sox didn't see him as that.

[caulfield12]

http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/A/J...an-Adkins.shtml

 

Yeah, the ugly numbers are coming back to me. He had a 6.03 ERA with Sacramento at the time of the trade, and had given up almost 140 hits in less than 100 IP.

 

But, in all fairness, there was the perception that if you kept those players until the end of the season and then they departed via free agency, no compensation was going to come back. In retrospect, probably KW's worst trade after Wells/Fogg/Lowe for Ritchie. He doesn't have many like this one on his resume, thankfully for the Sox organization.

[frankiethefixer]

don't forget aaron cunningham for richar. in a couple of years i have a feeling that will be one of his worst ones.

[Dick Allen]

http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/A/J...an-Adkins.shtml

 

Yeah, the ugly numbers are coming back to me. He had a 6.03 ERA with Sacramento at the time of the trade, and had given up almost 140 hits in less than 100 IP.

 

But, in all fairness, there was the perception that if you kept those players until the end of the season and then they departed via free agency, no compensation was going to come back. In retrospect, probably KW's worst trade after Wells/Fogg/Lowe for Ritchie. He doesn't have many like this one on his resume, thankfully for the Sox organization.

I could have understood the trade if no money was involved. You think compensation is going away and all indications were that it was. You're not going to win anything that year anyway..... But if you are going to pretty much pay him anyway, you would think you could do better than Jon Adkins. Ray was a pretty good ballplayer at the time, having a big year.

[caulfield12]

By the way, are you feeling contented now that we have new topics since the Cabrera/accepting arbitration issue is dead?

 

Well, it was a fun/enlightening/entertaining debate while it lasted. Not quite as heated as the Taveras threads, in the end.

[Dick Allen]

Its really hard to judge most trades. The Foulke to Oakland trade can be judged both ways. It might have been horrible. Maybe if it wasn't made the White Sox win it all in 2003 without Billy Koch trying to close games. Flash Gordon took over the closer role. What if he was able to remain the primary set-up guy? Maybe that team wins.

 

On the other hand, one of the guys you get in that trade is Olivo. He turns out to be part of the deal to get Garcia, who does help the White Sox win it all. Could the Sox have traded for Garcia without Olivo? We probably will never know.

 

Then Garcia is traded for Floyd and Gio. Floyd helps the White Sox win the Central in 2008. Would Floyd have been a White Sox if Garcia wasn't available? We will never know. Gio goes for Swisher, who sucks in his only White Sox season, but he brings back some minor leaguers who may or may not help the White Sox win things in the future.

 

So just when you look at that trade, you can make an argument it was awful, and you can make an argument it was fantastic.

[Dick Allen]

By the way, are you feeling contented now that we have new topics since the Cabrera/accepting arbitration issue is dead?

 

Well, it was a fun/enlightening/entertaining debate while it lasted. Not quite as heated as the Taveras threads, in the end.

I still can't believe he didn't accept. Kudos to KW for getting the extra picks. I would have passed on the offer if I was him. I can't believe a few more guys didn't accept either. It seems the agents think the talk of lower offers is a bluff, that the poor economy shouldn't have any bearing on what they eventually will receive. I have a feeling the collusion word is going to be used again when this offseason comes to an end, and more than a couple of these guys are playing for less than they expected.

[klaus kinski]

Potentially too much turnover from a winning team-ala 2005-took 3 years to recover from that