Winter Meetings Chit-Chat

[caulfield12]

Young has one of the worst contracts in the game today going forward after 2009...why would the White Sox possibly take on that kind of commitment when they already have Ramirez, unless the Rangers ate at least 60% of it?

[G&T]

Young has one of the worst contracts in the game today going forward after 2009...why would the White Sox possibly take on that kind of commitment when they already have Ramirez, unless the Rangers ate at least 60% of it?

 

He also has a NTC through 2009. I've read that the Rangers want to move him, but his contract is awful. Plus he's 32 coming off a down year.

[RockRaines]

Young has one of the worst contracts in the game today going forward after 2009...why would the White Sox possibly take on that kind of commitment when they already have Ramirez, unless the Rangers ate at least 60% of it?

The Sox will probably be mentioned, but I dont think its legit. I just wouldnt be surprised to see that info come out sometime soon.

[witesoxfan]

/where's Santo

[Chisoxfn]

You could do far worse than Michael Young. The problem is his contract is massive. I would gladly take Young if you were only on the hook for anywhere between 6-8 million a season. I say that because Young would be a very stabilizing bat towards the top of the order. He still isn't a true leadoff hitter though (rather a good 2 hitter). I also think he'd be an above average defensive 2nd baseman and if Ramirez is awful at SS you could always play him there.

 

The problem is I can't see the Rangers sending that much cash a teams way without that team giving up some significant prospects and I don't see the value in doing that. I also will admit that if you are going to go 6-8M you might as well just up it and take Furcal (albeit Young is a much better bet to remain healthy).

[Jimbo's Drinker]

Wake me up when the Sox actually do someting relevant.

[Disco72]

You could do far worse than Michael Young. The problem is his contract is massive. I would gladly take Young if you were only on the hook for anywhere between 6-8 million a season. I say that because Young would be a very stabilizing bat towards the top of the order. He still isn't a true leadoff hitter though (rather a good 2 hitter). I also think he'd be an above average defensive 2nd baseman and if Ramirez is awful at SS you could always play him there.

 

The problem is I can't see the Rangers sending that much cash a teams way without that team giving up some significant prospects and I don't see the value in doing that. I also will admit that if you are going to go 6-8M you might as well just up it and take Furcal (albeit Young is a much better bet to remain healthy).

 

Why not just target Juan Pierre then? Their career numbers are eerily similar:

 

Pierre: .300 / .346 OBP / .371 SLG / .717 OPS

Young: .300 / .346 OBP / .442 SLG / .788 OPS

 

Clearly Young has more power (12-14 HRs per year the last 3 years), but Pierre has the stolen bases (40-64 per year

the last 3 years). As bad as Pierre's contract is (10M, 10M, 8.5M from 2009 - 2011), Young's is far worse (16M per year until 2013) and two years longer. Neither player is particularly good defensively, though perhaps Young would be better at 2B as you suggest.

[Chisoxfn]

I'd have absolutely zero problem if the Sox acquired Juan Pierre and got cash from the Dodgers. It shoudln't cost anything and at least the club would have a leadoff hitter who can hit for a solid average and get on base at a reasonably acceptable rate (albeit, not a great rate). In fact if the Sox had Pierre/Abrue in the top 2 spots of the order I'd be perfectly content (this is obviously assuming a Dye trade).

[scenario]

Why not just target Juan Pierre then? Their career numbers are eerily similar:

 

Pierre: .300 / .346 OBP / .371 SLG / .717 OPS

Young: .300 / .346 OBP / .442 SLG / .788 OPS

 

Clearly Young has more power (12-14 HRs per year the last 3 years), but Pierre has the stolen bases (40-64 per year

the last 3 years). As bad as Pierre's contract is (10M, 10M, 8.5M from 2009 - 2011), Young's is far worse (16M per year until 2013) and two years longer. Neither player is particularly good defensively, though perhaps Young would be better at 2B as you suggest.

 

Hard to blow off the difference in those slugging numbers though...

 

For comparison's sake, Young's career slugging % is similar to Crede's.

 

And Pierre's is similar to Scotty Pods.

 

Edited December 17, 2008 by scenario

[witesoxfan]

The one player I would be completely disappointed in the Sox picking up this winter would be Juan Pierre. He and Jerry Owens are essentially the same exact player.

[chunk23]

Well, I can think of a few million differences between them.

[Disco72]

Hard to blow off the difference in those slugging numbers though...

 

For comparison's sake, Young's career slugging % is similar to Crede's.

 

And Pierre's is similar to Scotty Pods.

 

There is the ongoing "speed" versus "power" debate (especially for the leadoff spot) that I was trying to avoid.

 

The one player I would be completely disappointed in the Sox picking up this winter would be Juan Pierre. He and Jerry Owens are essentially the same exact player.

 

I'm not a Pierre fan either, and I would prefer an in-house option if someone can get a .350 OBP at the top of the order. However, since most argue that OBP is key to top of the order, I didn't think the difference in slugging was worth the difference in contracts (and likely cost in the trade market) for the two players.

[caulfield12]

According to John Perrotto of Baseball Prospectus, the Pirates top the list of suitors for Daniel Cabrera. He says the Brewers, Padres, Rangers, Blue Jays, and Nationals are also interested.

 

We learned yesterday that the Blue Jays are interested but haven't made an offer yet. Cabrera's agent has heard from about half the teams in baseball, and one even offered a multiyear deal.

mlbtraderumors.com

[AWhiteSoxinNJ]

Sounds like we aren't signing a free agent by Thursday.

[Jimbo's Drinker]

Why is this thread still open, it a whole fuss about nothing>

[NorthSideSox72]

Wake me up when the Sox actually do someting relevant.

 

Why is this thread still open, it a whole fuss about nothing>

 

When you go to a movie theater, do you walk into the showings of movies that don't interest you and yell at the screen about how stupid the movie is?

 

[almagest]

When you go to a movie theater, do you walk into the showings of movies that don't interest you and yell at the screen about how stupid the movie is?

Hahaha I'm totally going to do that now.

 

[Kalapse]

I'd have absolutely zero problem if the Sox acquired Juan Pierre and got cash from the Dodgers. It shoudln't cost anything and at least the club would have a leadoff hitter who can hit for a solid average and get on base at a reasonably acceptable rate (albeit, not a great rate). In fact if the Sox had Pierre/Abrue in the top 2 spots of the order I'd be perfectly content (this is obviously assuming a Dye trade).

There's nothing "acceptable" about a .325-.330 OBP (in the NL, likely even lower in the AL) in the leadoff spot especially when he's an incredible liability in the field, one of the top 3 weakest hitters in the game, sports a well below average Pit/PA and is a bulk base stealer (his SB% has always been mediocre). Not to mention the fact that there's still 3 years and $28.5M remaining on his deal and you're not going to convince the Dodgers to pick up 70% of that contract which is about what it would take to make such a deal anything but an albatross. I can't fathom any circumstance in which a trade for Juan Pierre helps the White Sox. We already got to see him play 162 games in Chicago in 2006, I have absolutely no desire to relive that experience on the opposite side of town.

 

Juan Pierre possesses 2 tools: an incredibly high contact rate and excellent speed. He sucks at every other facet of the game.

[santo=dorf]

You could do far worse than Michael Young. The problem is his contract is massive. I would gladly take Young if you were only on the hook for anywhere between 6-8 million a season. I say that because Young would be a very stabilizing bat towards the top of the order. He still isn't a true leadoff hitter though (rather a good 2 hitter). I also think he'd be an above average defensive 2nd baseman and if Ramirez is awful at SS you could always play him there.

 

The problem is I can't see the Rangers sending that much cash a teams way without that team giving up some significant prospects and I don't see the value in doing that. I also will admit that if you are going to go 6-8M you might as well just up it and take Furcal (albeit Young is a much better bet to remain healthy).

Yeah, I'm sure the Rangers haven't spent more than a second thinking of eating 50-60% of Young's idiotic contract which runs another 5 years.

 

 

Don't even bother

[Kalapse]

I can only imagine what would happen if you removed Michael Young, a hitter who's whole game is predicated on hitting singles through the infield, from that joke of an infield they play on in Arlington. I suppose if you played half your games on incredibly hard turf (MIN) or asphalt (inner-city stick ball team) it could work.

[caulfield12]

Daniel Cabrera Tuesday night (12/16)

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

The game is still in progress as I type this, but Daniel Cabrera's season debut in the Dominican League is already complete.

 

Working on a pitch count, he faced only 14 hitters and allowed eight of them to reach base. The only run charged to him came in the top of the first when Victor Diaz ripped a two-out double to score Melky Cabrera, who'd walked.

 

Overall, Daniel's line on a 'shake the rust off' type night looked like this:

 

2 1/3 IP

6H

1R

2BB

2K

 

from orioleshangout.com

[Jimbo's Drinker]

When you go to a movie theater, do you walk into the showings of movies that don't interest you and yell at the screen about how stupid the movie is?

 

No, cause I do not have a vested interst in that movie. I love ths team, but don't see a bright future.(2009)

[ThunderBolt]

No, cause I do not have a vested interst in that movie. I love ths team, but don't see a bright future.(2009)

Please, the future's looking bright and i don't even need shades. We have good young ball players and we are in a great position to compete for years to come.

[witesoxfan]

Please, the future's looking bright and i don't even need shades. We have good young ball players and we are in a great position to compete for years to come.

 

2009 could honestly be a pretty rough year, and that's all he was referencing

[ThunderBolt]

2009 could honestly be a pretty rough year, and that's all he was referencing

I don't know, I’d expect he'd of said immediate future if he meant that. I think we can't look at this in a vacuum our division is weak, KW has seen this, and is using this opportunity to gear us towards the future. I haven't heard a compelling argument yet as to why we can’t compete for the division with the team as presently constructed.