Winter Meetings Chit-Chat

[southsideirish71]

My two favorite Earl Weaverisms:

On offense, your most precious possessions are your 27 outs".- Earl Weaver

"If you play for one run, that's all you'll get"- Earl Weaver

 

In my perfect world.

 

OBP ( best skill is his ability to run from 1st to 3rd. Could care less if he can steal a base. )

Line drive type who has a propensity to hit to right when he gets behind in the count. Low strikeouts.

Bopper

Bopper

Bopper

Bopper

Doubles line drive type

Line drive type

Line Drive type

 

Crank all the home runs you want. Just balance the thing with line drive guys who don't strikeout. Our problem is when we have low BA, high strikeout guys throughout the lineup. Thats when they get owned as a team and look lethargic. To me balancing out the lineup forces the pitcher to throw strikes to your best hitters who can drive the ball out of the park.

 

 

 

 

[caulfield12]

Not THAT offense, obviously.

 

But not a completely one-dimensional offense either.

 

The fact that you have the ability to manufacture a run and take an early lead was a lot of the psychological advantage of that team, the confidence they had, knowing if they could just score a run or two early, the bullpen and starting pitching were just that good.

 

With our pitching this year, as it looks, not quite as germane or important...but still, we have to evolve away from all-or-nothingness.

[Kalapse]

Not THAT offense, obviously.

 

But not a completely one-dimensional offense either.

 

The fact that you have the ability to manufacture a run and take an early lead was a lot of the psychological advantage of that team, the confidence they had, knowing if they could just score a run or two early, the bullpen and starting pitching were just that good.

 

With our pitching this year, as it looks, not quite as germane or important...but still, we have to evolve away from all-or-nothingness.

Thanks, Hawk.

[greg775]

Weaver was great in how outspoken he was.

Sometimes a bunt is in order even in the AL. It's funny when we trot guys to the plate who no way in the world can lay down a bunt.

The bad thing is when we and other teams in that predicament give it a shot anyway and the guy predictably screws up the bunt.

 

[103 mph screwball]

Thanks, Hawk.

There is some truth to that. Imagine the other side. The Sox boppers are going through their .180 slumps with more strike outs than hits going into the Metrodome. Gomez slaps a ball that hops 20 feet over Cabrera's head. He steals second on our staff's inability to hold a runner and AJ's arm not being able to work a miracle. Piranha number two hitter {name not required, twinkies are interchangeable) advances the runner somehow. The Sox battle to get Mauer out somehow and they are almost out of the inning and work Morneau to a full count. He singles just out of the reach of somebody making it one to nothing.

 

There has to be a psychological "here we go again" effect. Meanwhile our guys grip that bat tighter an hope for a homerun (thereby making it much less likely) because it is unlikely that they will be able to string together the FOUR hits it's going to require to get somebody's load around the bases.

 

KW, all I want for Christmas is a major league lead off hitter.

Edited December 10, 2008 by 103 mph screwball

[caulfield12]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseb...0,3670284.story

 

Quotes from Ozzie's PC about "these kids can play version 2"

Edited December 10, 2008 by caulfield12

[southsideirish71]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseb...0,3670284.story

 

Quotes from Ozzie's PC about "these kids can play version 2"

 

Stupid s*** like this

 

Guillen also said that Owens, who stole 32 bases in 2007 but was hindered by injuries last season, would bat leadoff if the season started now.

 

Pisses me off. Last year if Ozzie had his way, Q would of been on the bench and Mr Speedy-No Hitty-No get on basey would of been grounding out over and over and over. It was such an abomination that God had to strike him down, so a much better player wouldnt be on the bench.

[Sox It To Em]

Giving 600+ PA to Jerry Owens would be a colossal mistake. I hope Ozzie is just talking.

[southsideirish71]

Giving 600+ PA to Jerry Owens would be a colossal mistake. I hope Ozzie is just talking.

 

The only reason we were not subjected to that last year was divine intervention. He was slated to go up until he got injured.

 

 

[jenksycat]

There is some truth to that. Imagine the other side. The Sox boppers are going through their .180 slumps with more strike outs than hits going into the Metrodome. Gomez slaps a ball that hops 20 feet over Cabrera's head. He steals second on our staff's inability to hold a runner and AJ's arm not being able to work a miracle. Piranha number two hitter {name not required, twinkies are interchangeable) advances the runner somehow. The Sox battle to get Mauer out somehow and they are almost out of the inning and work Morneau to a full count. He singles just out of the reach of somebody making it one to nothing.

 

There has to be a psychological "here we go again" effect. Meanwhile our guys grip that bat tighter an hope for a homerun (thereby making it much less likely) because it is unlikely that they will be able to string together the FOUR hits it's going to require to get somebody's load around the bases.

 

KW, all I want for Christmas is a major league lead off hitter.

 

Yeah they did all that.....and finished 1 game behind the lowly Sox anyway.

 

For whatever reason, when the twins suck ass for a month or strikeout 400 times in a game it doesn't mean the same thing as it does for the Sox

[caulfield12]

KW has been consistently saying the same thing. What else can they say, at this point? They can't comment on a player who's not even on their roster.

 

I mean, if they said Lillibridge or Getz would be leading off, that would 1) put a lot of pressure on those two youngsters already and 2) scare quite a few people who only have a superficial knowledge of White Sox baseball and prospects.

[Kalapse]

Think of it this way: if Owens, Quentin and Dye played the same number of games next year with Owens leading off, Quentin hitting 3rd and Dye hitting 5th, Jerry Owens would get about 5% more PA than Quentin and 10% more PA than Dye. Oh and 16% more PA than Alexei if he hits 7th.

 

Sounds good right?

[southsideirish71]

Think of it this way: if Owens, Quentin and Dye played the same number of games next year with Owens leading off, Quentin hitting 3rd and Dye hitting 5th, Jerry Owens would get about 5% more PA than Quentin and 10% more PA than Dye.

 

Sounds good right?

 

Stone might need a tranq gun to slow Hawk down when he creams over speed at the top of the order. Hawk made a crappy player like Gomez seem like an MVP. I can't imagine what he will do when he is subjected to speedy guy running his ground outs out as breakneck speed.

Edited December 10, 2008 by southsideirish71

[caulfield12]

Yeah they did all that.....and finished 1 game behind the lowly Sox anyway.

 

For whatever reason, when the twins suck ass for a month or strikeout 400 times in a game it doesn't mean the same thing as it does for the Sox

 

 

The Twins still have a better head to head record against us this decade, and one more division crown...

 

Let's put it this way, with all the payroll disadvantages they have, that's pretty amazing. However, both ballclubs have been built to optimize the playing conditions on their home fields.

 

Neither system is "better" and the White Sox certainly have the trump card in the World Series title in 05, but they've played us to a standstill with their system equalizing our talent, especially from 2001-2004. Usually, it's more about pitching and defense and less about offense when you compare these two teams and which one is better on a year-to-year basis.

 

 

[southsideirish71]

What gets me is when White Sox fans see Gomez run all over the Sox, and think he is an actual MVP candidate, which then leads them to beg for speed at the top, which will obviously solve all the Sox problems, as well as the economy.

 

People equate Mr Dergan with the sole reason we won the world series in 2005. How many people realize how good our pitching was. And how bad our offense was for most of the year. Yet Prancer steals some bases, Hawk creams himself and that magically is the formula for the rest of history. These are the same people who think that we cannot have a CF unless its Aaron Rowand. Take that pitching and strap it on a bunch of our other teams in this decade and we have a lot of banners hanging up from division championships to more.

 

 

[caulfield12]

According to MLB.com's T.R. Sullivan, the Twins inquired on Rangers reliever Joaquin Benoit. Sullivan says the Twins are willing to trade Boof Bonser. I suppose this could have appeal to the Rangers in that Bonser could be a rotation candidate.

 

Benoit, 31, posted a 5.00 ERA in 45 innings this year while battling shoulder issues. He's set to earn $3.5MM plus games finished incentives in '09 before becoming eligible for free agency. Bonser is under team control through 2012.mlbtraderumors

 

 

PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE make this move Minnesota. Have they lost their minds? They can't spend money for Furcal/Cabrera, Crede or Blake, but they think Benoit is the answer to their Crain/Guerrier/Bonser/Bass mess from RH set-up. Interesting!!!

[ThunderBolt]

2005 Chicago White Sox Scored 741 runs, Allowed 645 runs.

2008 Chicago White Sox Scored 811 runs, Allowed 729 runs

Huh, so what have we learned today?

[SouthsideDon48]

I'm a big believer in the practice of bunting, but I think it's more valuable when it's used at strategic moments rather than everytime a certain batter is up to bat like you're insinuating.

 

Here's a hypothetical game scenario:

 

I'll use last year's lineup from the end of the season:

 

1. Cabrera

2. AJ

3. Dye

4. Thome

5. Konerko

6. Alexei

7. Griffey

8. Wise

9. Uribe

 

Lets pretend it's the bottom of the 9th inning and the Sox is losing 4-3.

 

Lets assume that Griffey is on 2nd base and Wise is on 1st base with no outs. Now, this is a perfect scenario where I would have Uribe bunt to move both runners over.

 

Why?

 

Because by bunting, we safely move both runners over and avoid a potential double-play, plus we'd have 2 runners in scoring position with just one out instead of just 1 runner in scoring position with 2 outs had there been a double play.

 

So Uribe bunts, Griffey goes to 3rd and Wise goes to 2nd.

 

Next, Cabrera comes up and he ends up hitting a sac fly to deep right field. Griffey scores, tying the score at 4-4 and Wise beats the throw to 3rd base and now we only have 2 outs with a chance to win the game with a single from AJ.

 

Bunts can be effective, it's just when to use them.

Edited December 10, 2008 by SouthsideDon48

[caulfield12]

2005 Chicago White Sox Scored 741 runs, Allowed 645 runs.

2008 Chicago White Sox Scored 811 runs, Allowed 729 runs

Huh, so what have we learned today?

 

I think record in 1 and 2 run games is just as important, if not more important, than run differential.

 

Throw out the 2006 stats and I bet you'll see an even greater spread than 2005 or 2008.

 

For that matter, you can also include 2000 for comparison's sake. Those teams would score 10 runs one night and get shut out the next by an ace, crafty lefthander, journeyman, unknown rookie or someone we'd never scouted before.

 

[southsideirish71]

I think record in 1 and 2 run games is just as important, if not more important, than run differential.

 

Throw out the 2006 stats and I bet you'll see an even greater spread than 2005 or 2008.

 

For that matter, you can also include 2000 for comparison's sake. Those teams would score 10 runs one night and get shut out the next by an ace, crafty lefthander, journeyman, unknown rookie or someone we'd never scouted before.

 

Take a gander at that rotation in 2000, and what started in the playoffs for us.

 

 

[ThunderBolt]

I think record in 1 and 2 run games is just as important, if not more important, than run differential.

 

Throw out the 2006 stats and I bet you'll see an even greater spread than 2005 or 2008.

 

For that matter, you can also include 2000 for comparison's sake. Those teams would score 10 runs one night and get shut out the next by an ace, crafty lefthander, journeyman, unknown rookie or someone we'd never scouted before.

Let's just do the Ozzie years.

2004 Scored 865 runs, Allowed 831 runs

2005 Scored 741 runs, Allowed 645 runs.

2006 Scored 868 runs, Allowed 794 runs.

2007 Scored 693 runs, Allowed 839 runs

2008 Scored 811 runs, Allowed 729 runs

That's some strong evidence showing just how much pitching has meant to this team over the last few years. 2005, being the prime example.

[caulfield12]

''Everyone wants to come up with a reason why they believe we will listen to overtures,'' Ken Williams told the Sun-Times. ''Then all of a sudden, I'm shopping someone. If I didn't listen, that would be a sign of incompetence.''

 

Williams contends he was approached by representatives of several teams about Jenks and agreed to listen. Another team rumored to be asking about Jenks was the Milwaukee Brewers, who are in the market for a closer.

 

''[Jenks] doesn't throw 100 mph anymore, so what?'' Williams said. ''The short story is Bobby Jenks is one of the best closers in the game.

 

''I'll never deny that there hasn't been one player in eight years that I said, 'I won't listen to you about him.' Carlos Quentin almost won the MVP this year, and if someone calls, I'll listen. If someone wants to do something stupid, I'll let them.''

 

The Sox will begin grooming right-hander Jhonny Nunez, whom they acquired from the New York Yankees in the Nick Swisher deal, for a possible closer role, but he might be a few years away -- about the time Jenks is a free agent.

 

''We like [Nunez],'' Williams said. ''He can factor into the mix at some point this season.''

 

Pitching coach Don Cooper said he hasn't lost sleep over Jenks' velocity dipping.

 

''What's not to like about this guy?'' Cooper said. ''If someone out there is trying to cut down my guy, stop right there. He's become a pitcher. He's not out there trying to win Kewpie dolls.

 

''The strikeouts are down because no one wants to be 0-2 against him and let Bobby have them by the [throat].''

 

But even with all the love going out to Jenks, manager Ozzie Guillen offered a warning.

 

''I worry about Bobby being in shape for spring training,'' Guillen said. ''But worry about his velocity? No, because Bobby can still pitch. Sometimes he was not 97 or 98, but he still got people out. He was not consistent, but I worry about him maintaining his shape. Not for me, not for the club, but for him.

 

''I always talk to him and say, 'If you take care of yourself, you're going to be a rich man.'''

 

And sooner than later. The Sox have a record of avoiding arbitration hearings, choosing instead to negotiate extensions with their players.

 

Talks with Jenks will begin soon.

 

''Bobby,'' Williams said, ''he's our guy.''

suntimes.com

Edited December 10, 2008 by caulfield12

[ThunderBolt]

Take a gander at that rotation in 2000, and what started in the playoffs for us.

Parque, Sirotka, and Baldwin. :Shudder:. Game 2: The famed origin of shouldergate.

[caulfield12]

That was the zenith career-wise of all those pitchers...that season.

 

We had Eldred make a huge contribution early on, Wells flopped, Garland was thrown in the mix with Buehrle as well. I think they even tried Ginter down the stretch, taking him off the Olympic team's roster, and Jon Rauch loomed as the best pitching prospect in all of baseball.

 

Biddle, Josh Fogg, Danny Wright and Lorenzo Barcelo weren't far behind.

[SoxFan1]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseb...0,3670284.story

 

Quotes from Ozzie's PC about "these kids can play version 2"

Let's take a look at what we currently have compared to what we had last season...

 

C 08 Pierzynski - C 09 Pierzynski = WASH

1B 08 Konerko - 1B 09 Konerko = WASH, though hopefully he has a much better 09

2B 08 Ramirez - 2B 09 Getz/Lil/Nix/Betemit = 08

SS 08 Cabrera - SS 09 Ramirez = 09

3B 08 Crede/Uribe - 3B 09 Fields/Betemit = ?, while he'll probably have better offensive output, we're taking a big dip on D.

LF 08 Quentin - LF 09 Quentin = WASH

CF 08 Swish/JR - CF 09 Owens/Lil/Anderson = Wash, pretty much all suck

RF 08 Dye - RF 09 Dye = WASH

 

So what I'm seeing is a probably rebound from PK as he finished the season pretty strong, and probably regression from CQ and JD. Fields will outproduce the Crede/Uribe duo, but his defense isn't even close, though Crede sucked last year. We're losing a bit of power in CF, but gaining better defense. 2B and CF are probably the biggest toss ups offensively.

 

As far as SP goes, we've lost the Vazquez and will go most of the season (probably) without Contreras, so substitute in 2 of Richard/Poreda/Marquez/Egbert/Broadway. There is no doubt we're going to feel more hurt in the rotation than we do with the offense. I have some faith in Richard though. He pitched very well in the playoffs and had some promising starts. Endurance will surely be an issue with the 4/5 spots, which leads me to believe Carrasco will be used a lot in the long relief role and the 3rd place finisher of the competition might get a spot as a long man in the bullpen also. The bullpen is essentially the same right now.

 

The way I see it, if we go into 2009 with this team, it's going to be a long, rough season. Offensively, we can probably live with 2 of 2B/3B/CF being internal options, but to have all 3 as question marks going into the season isn't a great idea (barring any breakout surprises). As far as the pitching staff goes, again, barring any surprises (and expecting slight regression from Danks/Floyd), we won't be able to succeed with only 3 "sure things" in the rotation, but in any sport, nothing is a sure thing.

 

If I'm KW, my main targets right now are a lead off man who can play one of SS/2B/CF and a SP (#4 guy at worst) who can eat a lot of innings. I'd be content with the team if those 2 things were added right now. Thats why, if I'm KW, I sign Furcal and do my damndest to find a SP in FA (Johnson, Lowe, Wolf, Garland, Penny, Perez) or via the trade market. The only way I trade Dye is if I'm going to be adding 2 reasonably big salaries to the payroll, in which case 2 of Abreu/Dunn/Lowe/Furcal/Sheets/Rivera/Hudson.