Our old friends the Braves want JD

[fathom]

We're not getting Hanson or Heyward in a deal for Dye.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

Rasner blew, and now Marquez is compared to Garland, and the real Garland is available and I don't think many people around here would want him.

Rasner made his strides last season but is I believe subject to the minor league phase of the Rule-5 draft. If he's back he'll spend next season in Birmingham as a 22-year-old so he's still got a chance. The real Garland was very valuable until he started getting paid eight figures to put up ERA's north of 4.50. He's still a good pitcher and an innings eater and I'd more than welcome him back on a 3 year, $25-27M deal to be a 5th starter, but that's unlikely. He'll get more than that.

[caulfield12]

Rasner made his strides last season but is I believe subject to the minor league phase of the Rule-5 draft. If he's back he'll spend next season in Birmingham as a 22-year-old so he's still got a chance. The real Garland was very valuable until he started getting paid eight figures to put up ERA's north of 4.50. He's still a good pitcher and an innings eater and I'd more than welcome him back on a 3 year, $25-27M deal to be a 5th starter, but that's unlikely. He'll get more than that.

 

Same thing with Furcal...who made $13 million and expected 3 years and $39 this time around.

 

Garland made $12 million in 2008 with an ERA hovering right around 5...still, for him to go all the way down to $8.33-9.0 million per season would be a shock.

He's 29 and very durable. The other pitchers in his tier (Penny, Wolf, O. Perez, Pettitte, Moyer) all have significant age/injury/inconsistency issues.

Edited December 9, 2008 by caulfield12

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

Same thing with Furcal...who made $13 million and expected 3 years and $39 this time around.

 

Garland made $12 million in 2008 with an ERA hovering right around 5...still, for him to go all the way down to $8.33-9.0 million per season would be a shock.

He's 29 and very durable. The other pitchers in his tier (Penny, Wolf, O. Perez, Pettitte, Moyer) all have significant age/injury/inconsistency issues.

Yeah, Garland's value is going to fall but not far enough to where we'll be able to take advantage of a bargain. I said when the Cubs signed Dempster that if I were them I'd have rather given that money to Garland, and I think that will prove to be the case. Garland will make less over a shorter span and be a better pitcher, and he may do all of it in a tougher league.

 

You look at the NL, and this is the place where players like Jeff Weaver, Sidney Ponson, Kyle Lohse, Tim Redding, Braden Looper, Todd Wellmeyer, Odalis Perez, and co. all go to look like studs. Garland has put his numbers up in a hitters' park in the AL. Big difference. He'll be just as underrated in this market as Carlos Silva was overrated in last year's market.

[southsider2k5]

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20...8&fext=.jsp

 

Dye coveted but White Sox can wait

Club holds upper hand in any talks about right fielder

 

By Scott Merkin / MLB.com

Merkin from the Winter Meetings

 

 

LAS VEGAS -- The rumor had been hovering around the Bellagio since Sunday night, taking shape long before Ken Williams and most of the White Sox contingency arrived in Las Vegas early Monday afternoon.

 

This particular piece of news centered on the Reds acquiring Jermaine Dye from the White Sox in exchange for Homer Bailey, a 22-year-old, ultra-talented right-handed hurler, who could benefit from a change of scenery following an 0-6 showing over eight big league starts in 2008. The Dayton Daily News went as far as to quote an unnamed source in its story confirming that it was a done deal and would be announced later in the week.

 

That report led to separate conversations between Dye and manager Ozzie Guillen and the White Sox right fielder and Williams over the past 24 hours. It also resulted in strenuous denials from the Reds.

 

So, before the rumor in its present form took on any more weight, Williams did some personal diffusing when he met with the Chicago media Monday night.

 

"No, we have not traded Jermaine Dye to the Cincinnati Reds or anywhere else," said Williams, shortly after he sat down, before the first question was asked. "There's obvious interest on [Cincinnati's] part, I'm not going to deny that. That would be a lie. But as we sit here, he will be a part of the Chicago White Sox until further notice."

 

Williams claimed he would be surprised if much happened on the overall trade front in Las Vegas, pointing out how "the agents and free agents, these are their Meetings." With free-agent pitchers and position players flooding the open market currently, trade talks are more team specific per Williams' explanation.

 

Cincinnati would be a specific team in need of a player such as Dye, giving the Reds a powerful right-handed hitting outfielder to put between left-handed sluggers Jay Bruce and Joey Votto in their lineup. Reds manager Dusty Baker acknowledged such an interest on Monday, but supported general manager Walt Jocketty's denial from Sunday.

 

"That was a couple weeks ago there was talk," Baker said. "I thought that those talks were kind of off because of the economics and because everybody wants young players, which we are trying to groom to keep."

 

Dye's productivity since the White Sox championship season of 2005 stands unmatched by American League outfielders in certain areas. His 137 home runs and 378 RBIs over that time frame top the likes of Manny Ramirez, Magglio Ordonez and Grady Sizemore.

 

But respect from the White Sox shown toward Dye comes just as much from his quiet and steady leadership in the clubhouse. This affinity for Dye has Williams admittedly feeling somewhat bad about the one-time All-Star watching his name churn throughout Hot Stove talks.

 

"It's difficult for me to sit back and know that he's listening to his name in the rumor mill after all he's done for us," Williams said. "He's been one of the most productive right fielders in baseball in the last four years. So yes, from the White Sox standpoint, absolutely. From a personal standpoint, I make no bones about it. He's a good man. And I consider him a friend.

 

"There's going to come a day, soon here, whether it's the next year or the year after that ... There's going to come a day, and there comes a day when all of your players, no matter how close you are with them, all of your players are going to have to be transitioned into a different aspect of life."

 

For Dye, that transition doesn't seem to be any time this week. Of course, lack of action at the Winter Meetings doesn't mean Dye couldn't be moved sometime in early January or before the start of Spring Training after the free-agent market plays itself out. Simply put, Dye stands as the most marketable and moveable piece that remains available from the South Siders.

 

Turning 35 on Jan. 28, Dye and his $11.5 million salary for 2009 and $12 million option for 2010 are not part of the young core assembled by Williams through trades of Javier Vazquez and Nick Swisher. He also does not have full no-trade protection, such as Paul Konerko and Jim Thome, with the Yankees, Mets, Phillies and Red Sox part of the six teams to where he can block moves. His .292 average, 34 home runs and 96 RBIs in 2008 also exhibit abilities that don't seem to be fading.

 

With Williams' youth infusion well under way, most of the media had a tough time believing the Dye deal in any form was presently dead -- at least judging by Monday's questions. They ranged from possible outfield replacements for Dye to asking for Williams' best guess as to whether Dye would be a member of the White Sox when the team started its first Spring Training in Glendale, Ariz.

 

"Let's play how many different ways we can ask the Jermaine Dye question. Why don't we play that?" said Williams with a resigned smile. "Why don't we just look at the present White Sox roster? Jermaine Dye is still ... I still have a board at home with Jermaine Dye's name on it and he's in the lineup.

 

"We're under no pressure, whether it be economically, in terms of dire position need, to make a deal that we don't want to make. For our purposes, we'll sit back, survey the landscape and if someone brings something to our attention that makes sense to where we can balance it out for the present and also get ourselves better for the future, we'll travel down that road."

 

Scott Merkin is a reporter for MLB.com

[Chisoxfn]

Just like Josh Rupe was the "wildcard" when we traded him...or Matt Guerrier was going to be "the next Maddux" according to McClendon and the Pirates' GM at the time. Yeah, they really ripped off KW and gave up that Marte kid, who they weren't even going to keep on the roster because of a numbers game in the bullpen.

 

If Carlos Torres lights the world on fire with the Royals, it will be the first time a young White Sox starting prospect has amounted TO ANYTHING this decade, unless you want to count Brandon McCarthy.

Daniel Cortes is a top 50 prospect in all of baseball and was given up for MacDougall.

[Chisoxfn]

How do we know that the Braves wouldn't actually give up Hansen? I don't think we necessarily do, maybe they just wouldn't give up Hansen because of the other members involved in the deal.

[fathom]

How do we know that the Braves wouldn't actually give up Hansen? I don't think we necessarily do, maybe they just wouldn't give up Hansen because of the other members involved in the deal.

 

The Braves are refusing to even consider him in any deal for any player, according to my BA people.

[DBAHO]

How do we know that the Braves wouldn't actually give up Hansen? I don't think we necessarily do, maybe they just wouldn't give up Hansen because of the other members involved in the deal.

Wren came out and said this a few weeks back;

 

Wren has said he won't trade his top prospects. He didn't reveal the players he included in his offer to the Padres.

 

Two of the Braves' top prospects, pitcher Tommy Hanson and catcher Tyler Flowers, have boosted their standing with their play in the Arizona Fall League.

 

Other top prospects in the organization include outfielders Jason Heyward, Jordan Schafer and Gorkys Hernandez.

 

Wren said the Braves can't count on right-hander Tim Hudson next season. Hudson had elbow ligament-replacement surgery on Aug. 7.

 

John Smoltz and Tom Glavine had season-ending shoulder and elbow surgeries, respectively, and their status for 2009 remains uncertain. Meanwhile, left-hander Mike Hampton is a free agent.

 

Of course that's before he traded Flowers, but Brian McCann was blocking him of course.

[Chisoxfn]

Wren came out and said this a few weeks back;

 

 

 

Of course that's before he traded Flowers, but Brian McCann was blocking him of course.

I was going to say, he's already traded Flowers. He clearly is making a statement but we don't know who he truly feels are his top prospects. Kenny has always said he doesn't trade guys on his 3 year organizational board but he's often traded top prospects and only once or twice has he indicated that the guys he dealt were on that board. And if they aren't going to trade top prospects, don't freaking trade him. Dye has an affordable contract is great in the clubhouse and has been one of the top performing outfielders during his tenure with the White Sox.

 

We are dealing from a position of strength and there is no reason to move him (this is the opposite of the Swisher/Vazquez deals). Although you could make the case that we didn't have to deal Vazquez but after the comments Ozzie made we had to.

[103 mph screwball]

Wren came out and said this a few weeks back;

 

 

 

Of course that's before he traded Flowers, but Brian McCann was blocking him of course.

Well since they have traded for Vazquez, meeting with AJ Burnett today, and are in a rumor to deal Francouer for Greinke, maybe they could spare Hanson for a MVP caliber clubhouse leader Jermaine Dye. Wishful thinking on my part.

[DBAHO]

I was going to say, he's already traded Flowers. He clearly is making a statement but we don't know who he truly feels are his top prospects. Kenny has always said he doesn't trade guys on his 3 year organizational board but he's often traded top prospects and only once or twice has he indicated that the guys he dealt were on that board. And if they aren't going to trade top prospects, don't freaking trade him. Dye has an affordable contract is great in the clubhouse and has been one of the top performing outfielders during his tenure with the White Sox.

 

We are dealing from a position of strength and there is no reason to move him (this is the opposite of the Swisher/Vazquez deals). Although you could make the case that we didn't have to deal Vazquez but after the comments Ozzie made we had to.

Well, would you say Dye's on his 3 year organizational board? He has 1 year left on his deal, with an option for 2010, and I doubt he'd stick around after that.

 

You have to remember, the overall package for Swisher was what a lot of people thought was "weak" (but let's wait til Marquez learns a cutter before we pass judgement).

 

Maybe the Sox's financial issues are so bad, that they have to dump Dye's contract, because other teams won't trade for Konerko or Thome. Hence, they may take a little less in prospects than what is considered fair I guess (or at least KW targets guys who aren't as highly rated as what he thinks).

[SkokieSox]

Well, would you say Dye's on his 3 year organizational board? He has 1 year left on his deal, with an option for 2010, and I doubt he'd stick around after that.

 

You have to remember, the overall package for Swisher was what a lot of people thought was "weak" (but let's wait til Marquez learns a cutter before we pass judgement).

 

Maybe the Sox's financial issues are so bad, that they have to dump Dye's contract, because other teams won't trade for Konerko or Thome. Hence, they may take a little less in prospects than what is considered fair I guess (or at least KW targets guys who aren't as highly rated as what he thinks).

 

I don't think so, we've already shedded a lot of payroll. Also KW said we are good shape with payroll, and are in no dire need to trade Dye. He even said he wants his guys looking for possible fits that make us better from a prospect standpoint, but also with veteran FA's.

[beck72]

So far, the Braves have been mentioned in about half the rumors out there. I doubt the sox and Braves strike a deal. Esp. after the Javy deal went down.

[caulfield12]

Daniel Cortes is a top 50 prospect in all of baseball and was given up for MacDougall.

 

 

Well, MLB has him rated ahead of Poreda, Beckham and Viciedo...they have no idea what they are talking about, at all.

 

Clueless.

[maggsmaggs]

Well, MLB has him rated ahead of Poreda, Beckham and Viciedo...they have no idea what they are talking about, at all.

 

Clueless.

Well he has a better overall package of pitches than Poreda, is younger than Poreda and spent the entire year in AA. The numbers while better overall for Poreda, were not that dissimilar. Cortes also has a solid fastball. Beckham hasn't had a full season in the minors and Viciedo has never played American ball. Based on all of this, it is fair to rate Cortes higher. And no offense, these people have probably seen more of the prospects than any of us, so it is also fair to say they have a more educated opinion. Not saying I agree with it, but it isn't ludicrous.

[caulfield12]

Well he has a better overall package of pitches than Poreda, is younger than Poreda and spent the entire year in AA. The numbers while better overall for Poreda, were not that dissimilar. Cortes also has a solid fastball. Beckham hasn't had a full season in the minors and Viciedo has never played American ball. Based on all of this, it is fair to rate Cortes higher. And no offense, these people have probably seen more of the prospects than any of us, so it is also fair to say they have a more educated opinion. Not saying I agree with it, but it isn't ludicrous.

 

 

I stand by my original point. It has been 9 years now since a White Sox starting pitching prospect really amounted to something.

 

I guess I'm just waiting for KW to be burned just once in this area (and no, it wasn't trading Brandon McCarthy, as many worried one day late in December).

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

I think KW intends on getting a pitcher. I don't think Marquez will be our 4th starter. I think he will have to battle it out with CR/AP for 5th with the losers trying to find a way into the bullpen. The Sox need another starter and it would be better to get the pitcher with Dye and get the position players via free agency. Free agent pitchers want too long and too expensive contracts for the Sox.

 

Is it just coincidence that the initials for Richard and Poreda spell CRAP ?

[ThunderBolt]

Is it just coincidence that the initials for Richard and Poreda spell CRAP ?

This has been discussed. They're last names together are also an anagram for A Cad Herd Prior. Shocking, i know. Why won't something of interest happen???

[scenario]

Cortes is a good prospect. It makes me sick we gave him up for MacDougal.

 

[caulfield12]

Cortes is a good prospect. It makes me sick we gave him up for MacDougal.

 

 

Well, maybe the Royals will get something out of him. They got Greinke's career turned around after he almost quit pitching to mow lawns (it had nothing to do with wanting to be on a winning team, it was http://www.furiousseasons.com/movabletype/...?entry_id=1451), Brian Bannister pitched above expectations for most of the season and Kyle Davies was a revelation after being left for dead by the Braves (along with Horacio Ramirez).

 

Now, if they can only get similar results out of Hochevar and Cortes, they'll be in real business.

 

Of course, Tyler Lumsden was a huge disappointment considering his position in the draft as well.

 

[BearSox]

I'd gladly take Jason Heyward from them.. the guy is a stud.

[fathom]

I'd gladly take Jason Heyward from them.. the guy is a stud.

 

I'll gladly trade my wife for Jessica Alba...it's not going to happen.

[BearSox]

I'll gladly trade my wife for Jessica Alba...it's not going to happen.

Yes, but we can dream.

[witesoxfan]

Yes, but we can dream.

 

I think there's a difference between dream and fantasy.