Angels May Consider Trading For Dye or Paulie

[Dick Allen]

So, instead of finding numbers from a couple seasons back... how about you tell us what your opinion is on the topic?

 

Which is better of these two scenarios, in your opinion:

 

--Anderson/Owens in CF

--Kotsay in CF, with Anderson/Owens as plan B

Sorry, I'm just point out Kotsay isn't the OBP machine you suggested. I would rather have Anderson and Owens. I like BA, and don't like Owens, but Erstad was a mistake, and Kotsay would be making the same mistake twice IMO. He isn't the GG quality CF he used to be. Doesn't run. Doesn't hit with power and will most likely wind up on the DL. Unless KW is going to get a legit CF, he might as well see what BA can do. If he had 500 AB last year he probably would have had 20 + homers and we all know what he can do defensively. Why banish him to the bench for a guy who isn't as good? Not saying BA is a star in the making, but there's no doubt in my mind if he played everyday he would have better numbers than Kotsay.

 

BTW, Kotsay and Erstad have identical career OBP. Strange it would be exactly the same.

Edited December 23, 2008 by Dick Allen

[ptatc]

Sorry, I'm just point out Kotsay isn't the OBP machine you suggested. I would rather have Anderson and Owens. I like BA, and don't like Owens, but Erstad was a mistake, and Kotsay would be making the same mistake twice IMO. He isn't the GG quality CF he used to be. Doesn't run. Doesn't hit with power and will most likely wind up on the DL. Unless KW is going to get a legit CF, he might as well see what BA can do. If he had 500 AB last year he probably would have had 20 + homers and we all know what he can do defensively. Why banish him to the bench for a guy who isn't as good? Not saying BA is a star in the making, but there's no doubt in my mind if he played everyday he would have better numbers than Kotsay.

 

that's fundamental part of baseball philosophy.

 

Do you want the guy with the lower average and OBP with more HR's or the guy with lower HR but with less strike outs higher OBP.

 

Neither is necessarily right or wrong just your philosophy on how to construct a team.

 

Me I would go with BA due to the defense but both option habe thier advantages and disadvantages.

 

[NorthSideSox72]

Sorry, I'm just point out Kotsay isn't the OBP machine you suggested. I would rather have Anderson and Owens. I like BA, and don't like Owens, but Erstad was a mistake, and Kotsay would be making the same mistake twice IMO. He isn't the GG quality CF he used to be. Doesn't run. Doesn't hit with power and will most likely wind up on the DL. Unless KW is going to get a legit CF, he might as well see what BA can do. If he had 500 AB last year he probably would have had 20 + homers and we all know what he can do defensively. Why banish him to the bench for a guy who isn't as good? Not saying BA is a star in the making, but there's no doubt in my mind if he played everyday he would have better numbers than Kotsay.

Playing a full season, I think BA could hit 15-20 HR, but he'd also hit .210 I think with a sub-Uribe OBP. Kotsay if healthy would give you a .330-.340 OBP, though only marginal power (maybe 10 HR). Anderson gives you very good defense, but looking at recent years, I think Kotsay gives you good (but not as good) D as well. Anderson could spell Kotsay defensively like he did Griffey.

 

Given that, I'd rather have Kotsay. But you of course take the chance on health, which is why its good to have BA around as a backup plan.

 

Interesting looking at the defensive stats for Kotsay and Anderson in 2008 - they played very similar number of games, though Kotsay played 50% more innings. They both had 1.000 FPct, Kotsay had a BETTER RF (I was surprised at that), and had 3 assists to BA's 0 (small sample size there, of course). Anyway, I agree BA is better defensively, and stats aren't great for defense. But Kotsay is no slouch out there, even now.

 

[NorthSideSox72]

BTW, since we are discussing CF's in the Angels thread...

 

Has anyone seen Figgins play CF? He hasn't played there with Hunter around, but, he played a fair amount of games there in years past. How is he out there?

 

[DaTank]

Playing a full season, I think BA could hit 15-20 HR,

 

 

Maybe if we played in Seattle for 10-12 games.

Edited December 23, 2008 by jenks45monster

[Dick Allen]

Playing a full season, I think BA could hit 15-20 HR, but he'd also hit .210 I think with a sub-Uribe OBP. Kotsay if healthy would give you a .330-.340 OBP, though only marginal power (maybe 10 HR). Anderson gives you very good defense, but looking at recent years, I think Kotsay gives you good (but not as good) D as well. Anderson could spell Kotsay defensively like he did Griffey.

 

Given that, I'd rather have Kotsay. But you of course take the chance on health, which is why its good to have BA around as a backup plan.

 

Interesting looking at the defensive stats for Kotsay and Anderson in 2008 - they played very similar number of games, though Kotsay played 50% more innings. They both had 1.000 FPct, Kotsay had a BETTER RF (I was surprised at that), and had 3 assists to BA's 0 (small sample size there, of course). Anyway, I agree BA is better defensively, and stats aren't great for defense. But Kotsay is no slouch out there, even now.

I think every year you don't give BA a chance increases the likelihood he will never amount to much. If you're going to give a chance to guys like Fields and Lillibridge, BA has earned his shot too. They threw him into a very tough spot in 2006, although he could have handled it better. Since then he has been pretty much blown off. I have no problem with him being a 4th OF if they get someone legit. If it were for Kotsay, if I were BA's agent, I would tell KW its time to move BA on.

[YASNY]

NSS, I have to respectfully disagree with you. Given the choice today between Kotsay, Owens and Anderson I'd put Brian and CF and hope for the best.

[NorthSideSox72]

I think every year you don't give BA a chance increases the likelihood he will never amount to much. If you're going to give a chance to guys like Fields and Lillibridge, BA has earned his shot too. They threw him into a very tough spot in 2006, although he could have handled it better. Since then he has been pretty much blown off. I have no problem with him being a 4th OF if they get someone legit. If it were for Kotsay, if I were BA's agent, I would tell KW its time to move BA on.

That is definitely a good point about BA. He's in a tough spot right now. I was just thinking more in terms of the team's best interests.

 

Players do get into these situations sometimes. Talented players are either blocked by other guys, or are given only one shot and fail, but seem likely to do better if given another chance.

 

[Balta1701]

That is definitely a good point about BA. He's in a tough spot right now. I was just thinking more in terms of the team's best interests.

 

Players do get into these situations sometimes. Talented players are either blocked by other guys, or are given only one shot and fail, but seem likely to do better if given another chance.

The question we have to care about is...what is better for the team?

 

I can make the case for BA over the other guys very simple...it comes down to money. If we're already running in to our budget, then looking at this roster and how the offense is currently constructed...I think that our team will still score enough runs, especially if one of our 2b contenders can fill the leadoff spot. It's still loaded with power. Maybe even more than last year if people stay healthy and Fields steps back in to his 07 form. If we lose some performance offensively by putting Anderson in CF, at least we pull off some defense there.

 

If we're going to spend any additional money though, there's still 1 spot on the roster that just flat out scares me, and that's the 4/5 pitching spots. Experience suggests we'd probably do all right subbing in rookies/Broadway in to the 5 spot and letting them fight it out. But having 2 slots like that is going to worry me until we get to the season and Cooper does what Cooper does with those guys.

 

Of course, none of this matters because Anderson will never jump past Owens barring injury. But if we're going to risk any more money, I'd rather find a scrap heap guy to give us an ERA of 5.5-6 out of the 5 spot than sign another CF.

[GreatScott82]

IMO this is the year the Angels get Konerko. The more i think about, the more i think Dye stays... As he would take over for Thome at DH in 2010.

 

Im sure the Angels are going to want some pitching back also if they deal Weaver. So i could see a Konerko and Marquez for Weaver and Morales type deal.

 

As far as the Figgins in CF question goes, that would be just another Swisher experiment type of deal. Figgins plays a solid LF and a decent 3b. The only way i would want Figgins here is if Dye gets dealt and Quentin is moved to RF.

[NorthSideSox72]

IMO this is the year the Angels get Konerko. The more i think about, the more i think Dye stays... As he would take over for Thome at DH in 2010.

 

Im sure the Angels are going to want some pitching back also if they deal Weaver. So i could see a Konerko and Marquez for Weaver and Morales type deal.

 

As far as the Figgins in CF question goes, that would be just another Swisher experiment type of deal. Figgins plays a solid LF and a decent 3b. The only way i would want Figgins here is if Dye gets dealt and Quentin is moved to RF.

You really think that KW would trade Marquez after scouting him in person and acquiring him in trade? I think that's unlikely.

 

[GreatScott82]

You really think that KW would trade Marquez after scouting him in person and acquiring him in trade? I think that's unlikely.

To get a guy like Weaver maybe... I doubt the Angels would want to give him up for an 12 million aging 1b and recieve no pitching in return. If not Marquez, than a guy like Broadway for sure....

[scenario]

I predict that by the end of spring training, Jerry Owens will suffer another groin injury... creating an opportunity for BA to start the season in CF... and that Brian will perform well enough to keep the job.

 

 

[BigSqwert]

I predict that by the end of spring training, Jerry Owens will suffer another groin injury... creating an opportunity for BA to start the season in CF... and that Brian will perform well enough to keep the job.

 

I just haven't seen anything from BA to make believe he will be a successful major league hitter. I believe half of the NL pitchers can hit better than him.

[longshot7]

BTW, since we are discussing CF's in the Angels thread...

 

Has anyone seen Figgins play CF? He hasn't played there with Hunter around, but, he played a fair amount of games there in years past. How is he out there?

 

He's good in CF. I had season tix for the Angels one of the years he played CF almost exclusively.

[NorthSideSox72]

Yankees sign Teixera. See Diamond Club thread.

 

Angels now definitely in seach of a bat.

 

[NorthSideSox72]

He's good in CF. I had season tix for the Angels one of the years he played CF almost exclusively.

I think I remember chisoxfn saying the same thing - Figgins being pretty good out there.

 

I am starting to think a PK for Figgins type of deal (maybe with others involved) might be a good thing for the Sox.

 

But, if we follow that through... who plays 1B? Do you move Dye there and find an OF? I don't think the Sox have an in-house option ready for 2009, Allen isn't ready. Do you put Fields or Viciedo at 1B maybe?

 

[Dick Allen]

Yankees sign Teixera. See Diamond Club thread.

 

Angels now definitely in seach of a bat.

According to Rosenthal, they are going to find the bat, a la KW, from within.

[chunk23]

I was just going to ask that. KW screwed up by trading Swisher so early.

[Balta1701]

I was just going to ask that. KW screwed up by trading Swisher so early.

Really? He pilfered a couple guys from the Yankees for a guy that it turns out the Yankees didn't need at all, and settled his salary issues quite early. He's now in a position where he still has batting bullets to fire if he wants. I was just saying the opposite about him and Swisher, that he did well by getting guys from the Yankees before they realized they didn't need to make that deal.

[NorthSideSox72]

According to Rosenthal, they are going to find the bat, a la KW, from within.

How is that a la KW? I don't see the Sox getting a big bat from their system this year. 2010, 2011, sure - Beckham, Allen, etc. But who do you bring up now that is a powerful offensive player for 1B/DH or OF?

 

[chunk23]

I personally don't see a lot of value in the guys he got from the Yankees. Now if he trades Dye or Paulie he has to go out and fill that hole instead of using Swisher in one of the spots.

[NorthSideSox72]

I was just going to ask that. KW screwed up by trading Swisher so early.

Swisher is an excellent defensive 1B, but his numbers don't make it for that position. If we want an excellent defensive 1B with mediocre offensive talent, we can get Ross Gload or the like for cheaper.

 

Besides, he wore out his welcome with the team.

 

[Dick Allen]

How is that a la KW? I don't see the Sox getting a big bat from their system this year. 2010, 2011, sure - Beckham, Allen, etc. But who do you bring up now that is a powerful offensive player for 1B/DH or OF?

KW said he's filling his holes at P, 3B, 2B and CF from within.

[Dick Allen]

I personally don't see a lot of value in the guys he got from the Yankees. Now if he trades Dye or Paulie he has to go out and fill that hole instead of using Swisher in one of the spots.

It was a salary dump and Betimet isn't that bad. I wouldn't be surprised if Nick Swisher never plays a game for the Yankees.