Hanging with Mr. Cooper... Daniel Cabrera non-tendered

[SoxFan1]

Here's a little comparison...a really scary comparison...

 

Daniel Cabrera: 5 seasons, 60 wild pitches

Greg Maddux: 23 seasons, 70 wild pitches

Tom Glavine: 22 seasons, 65 wild pitches

Curt Schilling: 20 seasons, 72 wild pitches

Pedro Martinez: 17 seasons, 62 wild pitches

[clyons]

Here's a little comparison...a really scary comparison...

 

Daniel Cabrera: 5 seasons, 60 wild pitches

Greg Maddux: 23 seasons, 70 wild pitches

Tom Glavine: 22 seasons, 65 wild pitches

Curt Schilling: 20 seasons, 72 wild pitches

Pedro Martinez: 17 seasons, 62 wild pitches

 

Jose Contreras: 6 seasons, 64 wild pitches

Freddy Garcia: 9 seasons, 74 wild pitches

 

Just sayin'

[GoodAsGould]

Wasnt Ramon Hernandez, the Orioles catcher accused of being pretty lazy behind the plate too?

[SoxFan1]

Wasnt Ramon Hernandez, the Orioles catcher accused of being pretty lazy behind the plate too?

His laziness probably wouldn't make Cabrera walk just as many batters as he strikes out though...

[GreatScott82]

Cabrera has NASTY stuff... i know he has a track record of being wild and he has underachieved. But man i would give him a chance to make our rotation any day of the week! It could be another Jose Contreras type thing- a guy with nasty stuff in the need of a new home. Its definitley worth a solid look at.

[beck72]

Cabrera would be a nice pick up. Have him compete for the 5th spot, and send him to work on his control in AAA if he's not better than what we've got. If the sox want to bring in a vet, like has been mentioned, they could do a lot worse. I'd rather go with a healthy arm that the sox could make adjustments with than count on a health risk vet like Freddy Garcia. Cabrera has been able to give the O's some innings at least.

 

Looking at his splits the last few years, he really struggled pitching at Camden Yards, with a 5.91 ERA there the last 3 yrs. He had a 4.51 road ERA in that same time. Also, he threw much better in the 1st half than in the 2nd. He had a 4.33 ERA at the break in 2008. Could be conditioning issues-the guy's listed at 269 lbs. If he throws well in the 1st half, then Poreda/ Contreras might be ready for the 2nd.

Edited December 13, 2008 by beck72

[caulfield12]

Don't forget Jose Contreras factoring into the equation possibly as well. He has a great work ethic, I think he might actually make it back this year. Having all that extended rest should definitely recharge that arm of his...as long as he loses a bit of weight (he's a HORSE!) and manages not to blow out the Achilles' again.

 

Don't forget, Cabrera had back stiffness and an elbow strain. That PROBABLY accounts for the lost/missing velocity. Read through the Orioles' board for some additional thoughts/insights.

 

http://www.topix.net/forum/source/baltimor...GP0354OSD8EPQVG

Edited December 13, 2008 by caulfield12

[ptatc]

Don't forget Jose Contreras factoring into the equation possibly as well. He has a great work ethic, I think he might actually make it back this year. Having all that extended rest should definitely recharge that arm of his...as long as he loses a bit of weight (he's a HORSE!) and manages not to blow out the Achilles' again.

 

Don't forget, Cabrera had back stiffness and an elbow strain. That PROBABLY accounts for the lost/missing velocity. Read through the Orioles' board for some additional thoughts/insights.

 

http://www.topix.net/forum/source/baltimor...GP0354OSD8EPQVG

 

I don't think they'll let him throw until May or so. I believe they used an augmentation device when they did the repair so he should come back earlier then an average surgery. However given his age, size and the normal healing process, I would bet May. So, it would be about 6 weeks or so to get his arm in shape. Barring any set backs, I would say sometime toward the end of at the earlier before he could pitch in a game for the Sox.

 

[caulfield12]

I don't think they'll let him throw until May or so. I believe they used an augmentation device when they did the repair so he should come back earlier then an average surgery. However given his age, size and the normal healing process, I would bet May. So, it would be about 6 weeks or so to get his arm in shape. Barring any set backs, I would say sometime toward the end of at the earlier before he could pitch in a game for the Sox.

 

What about Saito? I want to know more about the platelet injection procedure (see LA Times article on other thread). Can we use it on Jenks or at least Cal Eldred to bring him back from the dead to start?

 

[GoodAsGould]

His laziness probably wouldn't make Cabrera walk just as many batters as he strikes out though...

 

No doubt, but you posted a stat about wild pitches, and while Cabrera does have poor control it doesnt help any if you have a lazy catcher behind the plate.

[Dick Allen]

Cabrera has NASTY stuff... i know he has a track record of being wild and he has underachieved. But man i would give him a chance to make our rotation any day of the week! It could be another Jose Contreras type thing- a guy with nasty stuff in the need of a new home. Its definitley worth a solid look at.

So does Mike MacDougal. So did Andy Sisco. He would be a waste of money.

[caulfield12]

Cabrera has much more of a major league track record (not great, albeit) than putting him in the same area code of conversation with J. Sisco. He's thrown at least a one hitter and has shown the ability to dominate at times. Sisco showed that for BRIEF flashes during his rookie season in KC.

 

And I wouldn't be surprised at all if they tried MacDougal as a starter again...although I'm sure he and his agent might balk at the idea, due to his injury history.

 

Just because we can name two former Royals prospects who failed doesn't mean much to me. JP Howell looked like he couldn't get a high school line-up out when he was unceremoniously dumped by the Royals, but he's become a great find for the Rays. Sometimes a change of scenery can work wonders.

 

Even with the second tier pitchers (Wolf, Perez, Penny, Garland, etc.) you're not getting anything resembling 100% certainty....except you're paying $10-13 million a season for the priviledge of biting your fingernails...instead of $4-6 million. And I know you're not proposing we go out and sign Lowe to a 4-5 year deal.

 

 

 

 

[Dick Allen]

Cabrera has much more of a major league track record (not great, albeit) than putting him in the same area code of conversation with J. Sisco. He's thrown at least a one hitter and has shown the ability to dominate at times. Sisco showed that for BRIEF flashes during his rookie season in KC.

 

And I wouldn't be surprised at all if they tried MacDougal as a starter again...although I'm sure he and his agent might balk at the idea, due to his injury history.

 

Just because we can name two former Royals prospects who failed doesn't mean much to me. JP Howell looked like he couldn't get a high school line-up out when he was unceremoniously dumped by the Royals, but he's become a great find for the Rays. Sometimes a change of scenery can work wonders.

 

Even with the second tier pitchers (Wolf, Perez, Penny, Garland, etc.) you're not getting anything resembling 100% certainty....except you're paying $10-13 million a season for the priviledge of biting your fingernails...instead of $4-6 million. And I know you're not proposing we go out and sign Lowe to a 4-5 year deal.

You can put him in the same area code as MacDougal who actually has had a lot more success on the major league level. In fact, MacDougal was on an all star team. Also keep in mind, not only has Cabrera been pretty much a disaster his major league career, he also has injury issues. Maybe there is a chance the White Sox sign him and he becomes the star a lot of people thought he would be 5 years ago. I think the chances are very remote. I don't see how the White Sox are going to get a guy who cannot throw enough strikes, to do just that.

[caulfield12]

But most of MacDougal's success was as a reliever, not as a starter.

 

Second, being named an All-Star as a Royal is about as significant over the last decade as being named to the Big 12 Honorable Mention All-Offense list.

 

That list over the last ten or so years includes the unforgettable Ken Harvey, Mark Redman, Dean Palmer and Jose Rosado.

[ThunderBolt]

Wow, the more athletic "Willy Taveras" Joey Gathright was non-tendered too. Should we speculate about him as well or is he not grindey enough?

[Dick Allen]

But most of MacDougal's success was as a reliever, not as a starter.

 

Second, being named an All-Star as a Royal is about as significant over the last decade as being named to the Big 12 Honorable Mention All-Offense list.

 

That list over the last ten or so years includes the unforgettable Ken Harvey, Mark Redman, Dean Palmer and Jose Rosado.

He made the AS team in 2003 and at the break had 24 saves and a 2.59 ERA. It wasn't like Steve Swisher making the team. MacDougal also had a pretty decent year in 2005 and was pretty decent in 2006 when the Sox acquired him. His big problem then was injury risk or he might not have been available. Now its throwing strikes. Years with Cooper haven't helped him.

[ptatc]

Sure he'll pitch but how well would you expect him to perform coming off a second TJS?

 

It won't make any difference physically. A replaced ligament is a replaced ligament. Unless he didn't have an autograft tendon to use. If they had to use an artificial ligament, it could make a difference.

 

The key question is why he ruptured two of them. Will he need to make drastic mechanical changes to prevent it from happening again. This could make him ineffective.

 

Another possibility was a failure of the first surgery. I'm not familiar with his case but I'll find out.

 

[ptatc]

What about Saito? I want to know more about the platelet injection procedure (see LA Times article on other thread). Can we use it on Jenks or at least Cal Eldred to bring him back from the dead to start?

 

I'm not sure what injury saito has? I haven't seen the LA Times article but the studies I've seen on the platelet injection were mostly on superficial stress fractures in small bones. In Jenks and Eldred's cases the stress fracture is in the distal elbow near the supracondylar ridge (just above the large bump on the inside of the elbow). This is near where the growth plate is as a child. There was speculation that each of them had minor growth plate injuries as young pitchers and this weakened that area. That is only speculation but from a biomechanical bone stress perspective it makes sense.

Edited December 13, 2008 by ptatc

[eickevinmorris]

All signs pointed to a contract offer for Bedard if he was going to be able to pitch in the first half of 2009....

 

Daniel Cabrera

Denny Bautista

Ty Wigginton (I'm sure the Twins will be in on him) and Reggie Abercrombie (another KW reclamation project?)

Jonny Gomes (ditto?)

Willy Taveras (see one of about 40 threads here on him)

Takashi Saito, Scott Proctor, Yhency Brazoban, Angel Berroa

Clay Hensley and Charlie Haeger (ex-Sox)

Chris Britton and Justin Christian

Tim Redding (ex-Sox)

C. Trent Rosecrans e-mails that the Reds will not tender contracts to Matt Belisle or Gary Majewski. (ex-Sox)

Chris Capuano (perhaps interesting to KW)

Kevin Cash (another possible back-up to AJ?)

Chuck James

Chris Burke

What about Reggie Abercrombie makes you want to sign him, or think that somehow KW would want him to play anywhere but Charlotte?

 

[santo=dorf]

Jose Contreras: 6 seasons, 64 wild pitches

Freddy Garcia: 9 seasons, 74 wild pitches

 

Just sayin'

You can thank AJ for some of that as well.

Edited December 13, 2008 by santo=dorf

[ptatc]

What about Saito? I want to know more about the platelet injection procedure (see LA Times article on other thread). Can we use it on Jenks or at least Cal Eldred to bring him back from the dead to start?

 

I found the article to which you are referring. It is a different use of the platelets. In this case they are using it as a form of "concentrated" blood and material for repairing tissue. They immobilized the elbow and injected they cocktail into the area of the injured tissue in an attempt to facilitate the healing process.

 

It is experimental and I've never seen it done. They obvious drawback is there is no way to know if it will hold up for any length of time. It could re-tear the next time he throws or last awhile. The key is to modify the mechanics to prevent the stress in the area.

 

this procedure will not work with the bones and stress fractures as the healing process and material is different for bones. This procedure is strictly for soft tissue in this case a ligament. It will be interesting to follow and could revolutionize they way we treat injuries.

Edited December 13, 2008 by ptatc

[elrockinMT]

I loved "Hanging with Mr. Cooper"... Great sitcom.

 

I'd be fine with giving Cabrera a shot. As a #1/2 starter, he definitely failed expectations. But, if he's only our 4 or 5, then I think we could live with his inconsistency.

 

 

Not if you want to win a pennant. If the right person is out there I can see a FA signing, but I would really think developing our own pitching prospects is a better way to go

[lostfan]

Cabrera pretty much blows, I think it's safe to say at this point in his career we can just give up on any hope of him living up to his potential/expectations. I suppose it's ok if he's the 5th starter but don't be expecting any more than that.

[Cubano]

Against Cabrera, you do not swing. He is going to walk the whole stadium. He has made people in Baltimore crazy. You are going to have two Contreras on the same team.

Edited December 13, 2008 by Cubano