KW to be on the Score

[Dick Allen]

So then what do you propose? Garcia? Colon? Lieber? Randy Wolf for 3 years? Capuano? Pedro? With a budget that limited it is hard to get a good SP that you can feel confident in.

 

Of our in-house candidates, Richard couldn't get past the third time through the opposing lineup which leads me to believe he's best off in relief. Poreda still doesn't have the secondary stuff to start, and would you actually want to risk "rushing" him and ruining his confidence and setting his development back? Then there's Marquez, who the Sox seem high on, yet is coming off a horrid year and needs much work. He couldn't get the job done in Triple A and IMO he needs to show that he can before he can be a legitimate candidate. And speaking of not getting in done in Triple A, there's also Broadway who flat out sucks. Then there's Egbert, and he's IMO the second best option of the group behind Richard because he's ready and it he fails, he's not a guy we're going to really worry about screwing up with.

 

Daniel Cabrera at least has MLB experience and has the type of stuff that, even if he fails as a starter, could lead to success out of the bullpen. Players who get non-tendered aren't All-Stars obviously, but since we're already over budget, aside from laying out trade scenarios of which high-quality SP prospects we may be able to acquire for our veterans or prospects, this is what we have to work with.

I wouldn't give Wolf 3 years, but the others, except for maybe Pedro, could be had just as cheaply as Cabrera and give you a better chance to win. Cabrera in the bullpen won't work. The guy can't throw strikes. See MacDougal, Mike. See Sisco, Andy. Cabrera also had back and elbow problems last season. He's a 60 day DL stint waiting to happen.

[Dick Allen]

I agree, with possible upcoming contract neg with Danks, Floyd, TCQ, Lexi, Beckham(Some sort of Longoria deal)... KW may just be making sure the economy can be a factor in all of these

He has Dye $11.5 million, Thome $13 million and Contreras $10 million coming off the current books after 2009. Konerko's $12 million comes off after 2010. Crying poor is poor. There's plenty of room for the others. Danks and Floyd will cost a few more dollars in the next couple years, ans will Quentin. Ramirez is locked up cheaply for 3 more seasons, and Beckham is years away from arbitration. Maybe their suite sales are taking a huge hit.

[GreatScott82]

Kenny said he was a little over budget as we stand right now, then brought up "creativity" again, referring to the Lee for Vizcaino and Pods deal and mentioning that it allowed them to also sign AJ and El Duque.

 

Just off the top of my head, Dye makes $11.5M next year. If the Sox could trade him for Bailey and a prospect ($500K), then sign Daniel Cabrera for $4M, Juan Rivera for $4M, Willy Taveras for $2M, and a back of the pen reliever like Luis Ayala for $1M, would you do that trade? It would essentially be Dye for Bailey, Cabrera, Rivera, Taveras, Ayala, and a prospect in a salary wash. The roster is at 37 now, so adding that many players would put us at 41, however Jose Contreras would be transferred to the DL, and if necessary Owens and/or Broadway could be cut (although I'd prefer both of them cut because they make my skin crawl).

Yeah when KW mentioned that 2004 December deal of Carlos Lee for Pods/Vizcaino freeing up money for El-duque and Pierzynski, that totally made think of how certain I am that he will trade Dye for something younger and cheaper and then go ahead and sign a Tavarez for LF, sign a Daniel Cabrera sign Blanco to be our back up catcher etc...

 

I also love the idea of having Bailey, Cabrera, Poreda, Richard, Marquez battle for 2 spots at the back end of our rotation. I love the idea of having Fields/Viciedo battle for 3b. I love the idea of an Anderson/Wise battle for CF (although i would love more of an impact CF but i doubt that happens). I also love the idea of a 2b battle between Getz, Beckham and Nix. Last year nobody expected Quentin and Ramirez to be up this early. This year we may say the same thing with Beckham and Viciedo... i cant wait for spring training!

 

 

 

 

 

[southsider2k5]

Whats this about Fields playing on 1 leg?

 

Supposedly Fields had a bad leg or maybe even knee problem IIRC.

[Dick Allen]

Supposedly Fields had a bad leg or maybe even knee problem IIRC.

I understand he was hurt, but why if he was a banged up as KW said, did they call him up? Why not get him fixed right away?

[fathom]

I understand he was hurt, but why if he was a banged up as KW said, did they call him up? Why not get him fixed right away?

 

Because they wanted to trade him, but then Crede went and got injured prior to the trade deadline.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

I wouldn't give Wolf 3 years, but the others, except for maybe Pedro, could be had just as cheaply as Cabrera and give you a better chance to win. Cabrera in the bullpen won't work. The guy can't throw strikes. See MacDougal, Mike. See Sisco, Andy. Cabrera also had back and elbow problems last season. He's a 60 day DL stint waiting to happen.

Lieber maybe, but I don't think the other guys on that list are ood bets to be healthy for Game 1 and stay that way through the All-Star break. At this point it seems the Sox have to count on Contreras coming back in the second half and starting, so I'd actually consider the guys who may be ready later on in the year bigger wastes of money, because by the time they come back we may not even need them due to the emergence of a young player, or Contreras returning, or because we're simply out of contention by that point. Your point about his control is correct; he sucks at it, and that's a given. However IMO Cabrera may be the tallest of the midgets here.

 

If you want a guy that you can mostly count on for 15-17 starts and a .500 team record through the first half of the season, you're talking about some pretty questionable players, Daniel Cabrera included. That's the realm of guys like Tim Redding, Julian Tavares, Josh Fogg, etc. And even those "better" options that can probably be had for $8M/year or less, like Braden Looper, Brad Penny, Randy Wolf, and Paul Byrd, are going to want 2+ years, which is probably a bad move considering we're looking for a 1-year solution only, not a 1-year solution and at least a 1-year bad contract to go along with it.

 

In all, I just hope Kenny trades one of Dye/Paulie if not both as well as Jenks and receives good SP prospects in the process. That may not happen though. I love the Javy deal in terms of talent received, but Kenny basically did the same thing he did in the Swisher deal last offseaon. Whereas in the Swisher deal he traded our best pitching prospects from an area of extremely depleted depth and still failed to get a pitcher back, this year he traded our best trade chip, a Major League pitcher, from an area of very little depth, and the only pitcher he got back in the deal is probably at least 3 years away. Granted he added Marquez in the Swisher deal, but that's not all that exciting in terms of 2009. If Kenny gets pitching elsewhere I'll be happy, but I'm very underwhelmed by what Kenny says he's taking to ST at this very moment.

Edited December 13, 2008 by Kenny Hates Prospects

[266344]

Here is a summary of the Josh Fields surgery this offseason from an article by Scott Merkin.

 

"There turned out to be a lot more cartilage damage then what was initially expected," said Fields, who added that the knee soreness came to a head through a handful of collisions at home plate and hard slides breaking up double plays for Triple-A Charlotte in 2008. "It turns out that this has been needed for a while.

 

"For a couple of years, I actually felt tightness, but you go out and play through things," said Fields, who credited White Sox athletic trainer Herm Schneider and his staff and the Charlotte training staff for doing everything possible to avoid surgery. "The pain would come and go. I could have gone in and played late in the game like I was, but we were going to have to get at it to play every day."

 

Fields mentioned how doctors were surprised by the strength he was able to maintain in his legs through the knee problem, with 2007 serving as a prime example. While Fields felt the pain most while running, it also was prevalent while hitting.

 

Another by-product of the surgery is that Fields will have greater flexibility in the field. That flexibility should contribute to improved defense at third base, a weaker area of Fields' game targeted by manager Ozzie Guillen during the 2008 season, which led to Juan Uribe taking the starting reigns when Joe Crede went down with back issues.

 

Back in August, Fields told MLB.com how he would put in the necessary offseason work to make sure these defensive shortcomings would not be held against him again. Going at the task completely healthy only will help his cause.

 

"Knowing my flexibility will be almost 100 percent, I'll be back where I used to be when I got drafted," said Fields, the White Sox top pick in the 2004 First-Year Player Draft. "I felt better fielding out of college then where I've been lately. The best news they told me was that there will be a dramatic improvement in my flexibility."

 

 

[Marty34]

He has Dye $11.5 million, Thome $13 million and Contreras $10 million coming off the current books after 2009. Konerko's $12 million comes off after 2010. Crying poor is poor. There's plenty of room for the others. Danks and Floyd will cost a few more dollars in the next couple years, ans will Quentin. Ramirez is locked up cheaply for 3 more seasons, and Beckham is years away from arbitration. Maybe their suite sales are taking a huge hit.

 

I think for the good of the franchise it's best to plan for the worst case scenario with the economy and cut payroll as much as possible right now. They need to rebuild anyway. Besides, they still can make the playoffs doing this.

 

[striker]

Here is a summary of the Josh Fields surgery this offseason from an article by Scott Merkin.

 

"There turned out to be a lot more cartilage damage then what was initially expected," said Fields, who added that the knee soreness came to a head through a handful of collisions at home plate and hard slides breaking up double plays for Triple-A Charlotte in 2008. "It turns out that this has been needed for a while.

 

"For a couple of years, I actually felt tightness, but you go out and play through things," said Fields, who credited White Sox athletic trainer Herm Schneider and his staff and the Charlotte training staff for doing everything possible to avoid surgery. "The pain would come and go. I could have gone in and played late in the game like I was, but we were going to have to get at it to play every day."

 

Fields mentioned how doctors were surprised by the strength he was able to maintain in his legs through the knee problem, with 2007 serving as a prime example. While Fields felt the pain most while running, it also was prevalent while hitting.

 

Another by-product of the surgery is that Fields will have greater flexibility in the field. That flexibility should contribute to improved defense at third base, a weaker area of Fields' game targeted by manager Ozzie Guillen during the 2008 season, which led to Juan Uribe taking the starting reigns when Joe Crede went down with back issues.

 

Back in August, Fields told MLB.com how he would put in the necessary offseason work to make sure these defensive shortcomings would not be held against him again. Going at the task completely healthy only will help his cause.

 

"Knowing my flexibility will be almost 100 percent, I'll be back where I used to be when I got drafted," said Fields, the White Sox top pick in the 2004 First-Year Player Draft. "I felt better fielding out of college then where I've been lately. The best news they told me was that there will be a dramatic improvement in my flexibility."

This explains Field's decline in stolen bases the past two years. I'm personally excited to see what the young guys have to offer. Let them duke it out in Spring Training and if none of them step up then go get someone.

[knightni]

How about a moratorium on CR/AP jokes? They've become very Buzz Killington-esque.

 

Poreda probably won't be making the rotation at the start of 2009, anyway.

 

Every article that I've seen has him either in AAA or the bullpen.

[ThunderBolt]

How about a moratorium on CR/AP jokes? They've become very Buzz Killington-esque.

As the chief proponent of that joke, I’ll have to give it some thought, but i share the same fear that you do. Somebody needs to get working on a new inside joke, until this ones goes back in style.

[elrockinMT]

Kenny also said he wanted to reward the sox minor league players who are 'playing the game the right way', ie, the way the sox are teaching them. He mentioned Chris Getz 1st, then Fields, Anderson, Owens. KW said "people are watching".

 

I take it to meant that the players and staff in the minors are looking to see if these position players will be given a chance to succeed. That the feeling out there is that these players have done what KW and staff have asked and want to see if they'll be given a chance to play everyday.

 

From the sounds of it, I think you can pencil in Getz and Fields in the lineup--unless they get beat out by in house options such as Lillibridge and Viceido respectively. KW talked again about Fields "playing on 1 leg" in 2008.

 

I also caught the tail end of a conversation where KW said "he could steal 40 bases and play stellar defense if he played everyday". I was scared that he was talking about Owens but he was talking about Lillibridge.

 

 

As much s we al like to see impact trades I have to agree with KW that developing our own and letting them have the chance to suceed is the right way to go.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

As the chief proponent of that joke, I’ll have to give it some thought, but i share the same fear that you do. Somebody needs to get working on a new inside joke, until this ones goes back in style.

I respectfully request that you allow the joke to continue, if for no reason other than its accuracy. The joke should only stop once we have better options than CR/AP to pencil into our rotation. I'd also like to point out, that while not very funny, Lance Broadway's initials L.B. can be read as "pound," and when placed in front of CR/AP like so (LB/CR/AP) it can be read as "pound of crap."

[T R U]

How about a moratorium on CR/AP jokes? They've become very Buzz Killington-esque.

 

Oh my god, I just got that!

 

[Chet Lemon]

Poreda probably won't be making the rotation at the start of 2009, anyway.

 

Every article that I've seen has him either in AAA or the bullpen.

 

Every article I read prior to the 2008 season had Ramirez in the minors and before the '07 season, Danks was projected the same. I wouldn't say it is likely Poreda makes the rotation to begin the season, but it is not impossible.

 

[beck72]

As much s we al like to see impact trades I have to agree with KW that developing our own and letting them have the chance to suceed is the right way to go.

The poor drafts have not allowed the sox to develop the young guys. That the sox have been able to win in 2005 and 2008 without having any of their position player draft picks from 2000 to 2006 has been amazing. The sox now have young players in the minors who could develop into long term fixtures in the majors. That is what the sox need in order to be successful.

[Milkman delivers]

I respectfully request that you allow the joke to continue, if for no reason other than its accuracy. The joke should only stop once we have better options than CR/AP to pencil into our rotation. I'd also like to point out, that while not very funny, Lance Broadway's initials L.B. can be read as "pound," and when placed in front of CR/AP like so (LB/CR/AP) it can be read as "pound of crap."

 

Streeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeetch.

[103 mph screwball]

How about a moratorium on CR/AP jokes? They've become very Buzz Killington-esque.

Sorry I can not comply with that. CR/AP is too descriptive until proven otherwise. I will try to keep it to a minimum for your sake.

[TLAK]

Where do they even slot Lillibridge to play?

On paper he's the only legitimate shortstop on the roster behind Ramirez. You spot him all over the place to get him some ABs, but his job is really just to hang around in case something happens to Alexei.

 

Keep an eye on how the others do at SS in spring training; if Getz, Nix or even Viciedo show a major league glove there then everything changes. But judging from stats and reputations, Lillibridge is the only option.

[beck72]

On paper he's the only legitimate shortstop on the roster behind Ramirez. You spot him all over the place to get him some ABs, but his job is really just to hang around in case something happens to Alexei.

 

Keep an eye on how the others do at SS in spring training; if Getz, Nix or even Viciedo show a major league glove there then everything changes. But judging from stats and reputations, Lillibridge is the only option.

From the sounds of it [and like Ozzie and Kenny did last year with Quentin and Owens] is to have two options going into spring for an up for grabs position with young players. For 3b, Fields and Betemit, with Viceido an outside shot. For 2b, Getz and Lillibridge the frontrunners, with Nix an outside shot. Lillibridge may be given a shot in CF. Not sure if Owens is the sox other option for CF, along with Anderson.

 

Lillibridge is a great back up option for SS. And could even try fulltime work at 2b, CF or possibly 3b.

[Cubano]

On paper he's the only legitimate shortstop on the roster behind Ramirez. You spot him all over the place to get him some ABs, but his job is really just to hang around in case something happens to Alexei.

 

Keep an eye on how the others do at SS in spring training; if Getz, Nix or even Viciedo show a major league glove there then everything changes. But judging from stats and reputations, Lillibridge is the only option.

 

 

Viciedo can not be a SS.

[TLAK]

Viciedo can not be a SS.

I've never seen him play so I'll take your word.

 

I thought all Cuban players could do everything!

 

Sorry, read too much from his agent.

 

I'm really looking foreward to seeing him play.

[caulfield12]

I think he did play SS very early in his career....before putting on so much weight and growing into his current frame. This, I suppose, is roughly at the same time he was pitching a little and consistently throwing in the high 80's or low 90's.