Sox enter rebuilding phase

[greg775]

Manager Ozzie Guillen has the uncanny ability to affix a label to just about anything, even if most of his words are unprintable. So let's go to Guillen for guidance about just what to call the 2009 White Sox.

Youth movement? Rebuilding club?

''No, we're not rebuilding,'' he said, shaking his head and waving his finger for emphasis. ''If we were rebuilding, we would get rid of everybody. We still have our entire bullpen. We have A.J. [Pierzynski], Paul Konerko, [Jermaine] Dye. As an organization, we had to do some things to get better.''

After winter meetings that progressed so quietly for the White Sox that general manager Ken Williams had to have his pulse checked, no one can make the argument the Sox have done much of anything to get better -- at least, not for 2009.

Ex-factors

They have jettisoned pitcher Javier Vazquez to the Atlanta Braves, dumped outfielder/first baseman Nick Swisher on the New York Yankees and let shortstop Orlando Cabrera walk via free agency.

All three provided Guillen with more than his share of headaches last season, but let's not forget a few things. Vazquez was in the mix to be Guillen's Opening Day starter until the final days of spring training. Swisher stepped in at the last minute to assume the leadoff job for the first time in his career after Jerry Owens proved he couldn't cut it. And when Swisher bombed as a leadoff hitter, Cabrera -- despite being acquired to fit as the No. 2 hitter -- moved into the job.

Those three had their ups and downs during the 2008 season, but the Sox don't reach the playoffs without their efforts. And -- so far -- none of the three has been replaced.

Certainly, the Sox got a nice package of talent in return for Swisher and Vazquez, but not one name that can be touted as loudly to help now as when Swisher was acquired from the Oakland Athletics a year ago.

We're going to see new faces at second base, third base and center field, not to mention two new members of the rotation.

There are no worries about Alexei Ramirez moving from second base to shortstop, but it's a big roll of the dice to count on Chris Getz to step in as the new second baseman, Josh Fields to prove he can be the every-day third baseman and Owens to show he can stay healthy enough to play center and stay in the leadoff spot.

Certainly, Williams' work isn't done, but Guillen doesn't seem to mind the hand that he already has been dealt for 2009.

''We still have power in the middle of the lineup,'' he said, pointing to Carlos Quentin, Jim Thome, Konerko and Dye. ''We are going to have more speed. We are going to be better defensively. It's going to be up to those kids on how they're going to help us win games.''

Oh, and about those kids, Guillen has a message for them.

''If they show up to spring training thinking they have the job,'' he said, ''they're full of [bleep].''

Guillen loves Getz, who tentatively has been penciled into the ninth spot in his lineup to provide some speed at the bottom of the order, so that comment isn't directed at him as much as Owens and Fields.

But all three have giant question marks -- posted by Guillen -- sitting above their heads. Depending on when you chat with Guillen, either Getz, Fields or Owens is his biggest question mark.

His thoughts about Getz?

''The question mark is at second base, who is going to be the second baseman right now?'' Guillen said. ''Right now, I would like to see Getz in that position.''

Getz, 25, is a left-handed-hitting second baseman with speed. He also has two hits in seven at-bats in the major leagues.

Question mark.

Guillen's thoughts about Fields?

''The question mark is how healthy is Josh Fields going to be?'' Guillen said.

Fields, 26 today, was bothered by two sore knees last season and underwent surgery on his right knee in October. He never looked like a major-league third baseman in 2008 but had 23 home runs and 67 RBI in 100 games during the 2007 season. His bat will come around; his glove is another question. Can he be counted on defensively?

''The way he played the last month of the season? Nope,'' Guillen said. ''But the way he was playing in spring training? Yes, he can. He was injured.''

Let's keep the question mark there.

Now Owens. The center-field and leadoff jobs practically were handed to him last spring training. Owens, who turns 28 on Feb. 16, showed flashes of his speed but also a penchant for finding ways to beg out of games because of his aches and pains.

''Owens was my leadoff guy until the last week of spring training,'' Guillen said. ''Hopefully, in spring training, those guys show my coaching staff and Kenny and everybody that they can play for a winning team in Chicago.''

Sounds awfully close to another question mark.

The magic word

Then he said it.

''We are rebuilding,'' Guillen said, ''and we just want to have a mix between the young kids and the veteran players.''

Rebuilding. It's the word Guillen didn't want to say out loud.

Still, he believes enough core pieces remain that the Sox can repeat as American League Central champs.

''We are not bringing these kids just to give them a chance to play in the big leagues,'' Guillen said. ''If these kids can't play in the big leagues, they will be out of there because we're going to compete. We want to win this division.''

 

Not a bad article on rebuilding, though it only examines the issues of Owens, Fields and Getz.

Should be interesting to see if these three new everyday players produce. Obviously Wise can take over for Owens if he sucks.

As far as everyday position players, I do wish we'd keep Dye and find a team that Paulie or Thome would accept a trade to. I don't think we should continue on with the four station to station players -- Paulie, Thome, Dye and AJ -- in the same lineup. For change sake, I'd like to see one of the four gone.

We are going to regret not finding a suitable backup for AJP by the way. He's been very durable. He could use some more time off, time off that Mr. Pie in the Face couldn't provide.

Any comments on DeLuca's fine article?

[rockren]

I buy Getz and Fields at 2nd/3rd...but they won't hand CF to Owens. No way.

[kjshoe04]

I buy Getz and Fields at 2nd/3rd...but they won't hand CF to Owens. No way.

I agree completely, I would even say that BA would get the chance before Owens. He's earned it my eyes and I think Kenny feels the same way, regardless of Ozzie.

[lostfan]

Owens didn't "prove he couldn't cut it" as a leadoff hitter, say what you want about him not being a MLB-caliber starter, but that version of events is just not accurate. Swisher was put in the leadoff spot because he was supposed to provide solid OBP since Owens got hurt... if that didn't happen then there is a good chance Carlos Quentin starts off the year in AAA.

[SoxAce]

This organization is just too in love with Owens. I don't mind him as much as some here, but I can see him getting the job easily unless BA hits out of his mind in spring training. Depending if the sox just get pitching and/or hitting The best thing that might happen to BA and possibly this organization is if Dye is traded and let Owens be the LF (but I'm sure Ozzie will probably stick BA in LF and Owens in CF on certain games of course.)

[whitesoxfan101]

Owens didn't "prove he couldn't cut it" as a leadoff hitter, say what you want about him not being a MLB-caliber starter, but that version of events is just not accurate. Swisher was put in the leadoff spot because he was supposed to provide solid OBP since Owens got hurt... if that didn't happen then there is a good chance Carlos Quentin starts off the year in AAA.

 

This is all true, but the White Sox aren't in the playoffs and Carlos Quentin isn't even a starter (at least for a while) if Owens doesn't get hurt, and that's a TERRIFYING thought. You are correct Owens hasn't "proven he couldn't cut it", but I don't like his odds at proving he can if he's playing everyday for the Sox.

[justBLAZE]

This organization is just too in love with Owens. I don't mind him as much as some here, but I can see him getting the job easily unless BA hits out of his mind in spring training. Depending if the sox just get pitching and/or hitting The best thing that might happen to BA and possibly this organization is if Dye is traded and let Owens be the LF (but I'm sure Ozzie will probably stick BA in LF and Owens in CF on certain games of course.)

 

Lets say Getz wins 2B out of spring training. Ozzie said he is batting 9th. That is why Jerry Owens will start over BA, because Jerry Owens is a leadoff hitter, BA is not.

 

Of course one trade could change all of this but as we stand and what I can say from this article this is 2009 lineup:

 

Owens CF

AJP C

Quentin LF

Dye RF

Thome DH

Konerko 1B

Ramirez SS

Fields 3B

Getz 2B

 

 

[fathom]

Lets say Getz wins 2B out of spring training. Ozzie said he is batting 9th. That is why Jerry Owens will start over BA, because Jerry Owens is a leadoff hitter, BA is not.

 

Of course one trade could change all of this but as we stand and what I can say from this article this is 2009 lineup:

 

Owens CF

AJP C

Quentin LF

Dye RF

Thome DH

Konerko 1B

Ramirez SS

Fields 3B

Getz 2B

 

Really inexcusable to have this lineup combined with our likely 4/5 of Richard and Marquez. That's all that needs to be said.

[whitesoxfan101]

Really inexcusable to have this lineup combined with our likely 4/5 of Richard and Marquez. That's all that needs to be said.

 

I don't know if it's inexcuseable, but I do know that it's not a playoff team. We BARELY made the playoffs last season, and the team has got worse this offseason and I think the division will at least be a little better.

[justBLAZE]

Really inexcusable to have this lineup combined with our likely 4/5 of Richard and Marquez. That's all that needs to be said.

 

I really don't like it as much as the next guy, but Ozzie wanting Getz to be 9th batter solves the other thread mystery, "number #2 hitter", it won't be Getz.

[fathom]

I don't know if it's inexcuseable, but I do know that it's not a playoff team. We BARELY made the playoffs last season, and the team has got worse this offseason and I think the division will at least be a little better.

 

If that's the lineup KW plans on having, he might as well trade Dye for any prospects he can find and get rid of guys like Dotel. Like you said, we barely won a down division last season and don't look to have improved at all. However, I'm hopeful that KW is playing us for fools and we'll actually try and compete this season.

[justBLAZE]

Troy Renck says Willy Taveras has received interest from the Reds, Nationals, and White Sox.

 

I guess I will take Taveras over Owens.

[chunk23]

It really is too bad, especially since he hit so well last spring training. He just needs to get consistent at bats.

[ThunderBolt]

I still think that the only set young position is 3b. They'll be an open competition for 2b (Getz, Lillibridge, Nix) and CF (BA, Owens) in spring training. Though i think a clear edge will be given to Getz and Owens. As for Owens.... we best pray for the return of last years MVP: the groin

[Milkman delivers]

I wouldn't have minded a trade for Taveras earlier, but now we know he's hurt. The f***ing Nationals (I'm pretty sure it was them) wouldn't take him because he couldn't pass a physical.

 

Anderson has earned a starting spot. He did everything asked of him last year, and I didn't hear any complaints. Give him the chance he has worked for.

[greg775]

Really inexcusable to have this lineup combined with our likely 4/5 of Richard and Marquez. That's all that needs to be said.

 

I'd use the word scary or a big concern rather than inexcusable, but that's just me.

We need another inning eater type starting pitcher if we hope to make the playoffs, folks. I'm not saying Garland, but a Garland type, or a "good season" Paul Byrd type. Not the Byrd that can have a sucky season.

Add to that the possibility Floyd or Danks could have the sophomore jinx or sophomore type setback, and our rotation is a concern minus another "good" starter.

Our relief is still a concern unless Dotel and Linebrink stay healthy and develop to where they are GOOD in 7 of 10 or 8 of 10 outings. Not Dotel being good one day and the next outing horrific.

 

I still prefer we trade one of either Thome/Konerko though I guess it's impossible to find the right trade/fit with no trade clauses.

 

We again will only have a chance for a special type season if Thome/Konerko/Dye/AJ really have big big years. Heaven forbid if AJP gets hurt with the backups we have.

 

If we were to somehow get another good starter I might feel way better about our team.

[Jordan4life_2007]

It's definitely risky, but necessary to go the route we're going. We've gotten all we could out of the 2005/2006 core. This team desperately needs to get younger, faster and more athletic. I like the pieces that have been brought in. The only way we're going to find out what they can do is to play 'em (and not to freak out if they don't produce right away). I don't mind going into the season with Getz and Fields holding down second and third. Owens in CF? Definitely less appealing. But as has been the question since the season ended: what else is out there? Let's just hope he can somehow, someway sport a .350 OBP or better.

 

The pitching? I was a CR hater during the season. But a combination of his playoff performance, coupled with me doing extensive homework on the guy (Scenario has been very helpful providing the low-down), and I think he can be at least a serviceable #4. You obviously hope for more. I still don't know a whole lot about Marquez. But Kenny and his crew are very high on him. So we shall see. Of course, as has been mentioned, things can chance in a hurry with one trade. But as of right this second, I'm fine going into the season with what we have.

[joejoesox]

it'll be interesting to see if, assuming the sox are tanking at the ASB, guys like Konerko and Jim and Dye will accept trades to contending teams, to rebuild our farm system even more

[YASNY]

If he's not traded, I think BA will end up being the starting CF. Maybe not on opening day, but by mid May. He's the better of the candidates.

[southsider2k5]

I wouldn't have minded a trade for Taveras earlier, but now we know he's hurt. The f***ing Nationals (I'm pretty sure it was them) wouldn't take him because he couldn't pass a physical.

 

Anderson has earned a starting spot. He did everything asked of him last year, and I didn't hear any complaints. Give him the chance he has worked for.

 

I am pretty sure someone else on here posted that it wasn't Tavares but the pitcher that the Rocks were getting back that failed a physical.

[ptatc]

Really inexcusable to have this lineup combined with our likely 4/5 of Richard and Marquez. That's all that needs to be said.

 

The more I think about it the more I'm convinced this is the perfect year to do something like this.

 

Regardless of the lineup, you win with pitching. The Wihte Sox will not sign an MLB FA starter because they won't sign a 4+ year deal (which I happen to agree with). So you need to build the pitching staff with trade and the farm system. There looks to be some options we need to sort out here.

 

I think we all agree that last year's team wasn't that good and had a number of holes. We won the division because Det. and Cle. far underperformed.

 

We have a number of younger players ready for their shot at the MLB: Getz, Lillibridge, Fields.

 

the rotation is young with another couple of pitchers ready for their shot at the MLB Marquez, Richard.

 

The bullpen seems fine with Jenks, Linebrink, Dotel, Thornton as experience with Nunez seemingly ready for his shot.

 

Dye and Thome will be off the team in the next couple of years.

 

 

With these players I think you have one year to find out what you have and then your ready for the WS run in 2010.

 

 

[caulfield12]

Some might argue NOW is the time you have to "attack" and take advantage of the DET economic situation and the fact that Minnesota and Cleveland (Kerry Wood move notwithstanding) are more sensitive "mid-market" teams to seize control of the division by the throat.

 

The White Sox are the team most "cushioned" for the downturn/recession in terms of their ability to generate revenues, and coming off a playoff appearance. Does everyone not agree?

 

CLE, DET are very vulnerable cities...OH/Cleveland because of the auto industry, and Ohio has been hardest hit by the foreclosure bug, particularly cities like Cleveland.

 

I'm certainly not saying go out and spend Burnett or Lowe money here. I do think they really have to look hard at the second tier (Garland, Brad Penny, Andy Pettitte, Oliver Perez, Randy Wolf and a couple of others like Paul Byrd) and solidify that starting rotation with an additional pitcher. I can see NOT adding a leadoff hitter/CFer, I get that, or maybe just adding Taveras on the cheap, but to not cushion the blow to our starting rotation and have to make a move out of desperation in mid-season seems to be putting us behind the eight ball. Surely there's no desire for a repeat of 2007, and we have better depth now than having to go to an Andy Gonzalez or Wasserman for large stretches of the season.

 

HOWEVER, even if there was a major teamwide system failure, having a veteran pitcher signed for only 2-3 seasons SHOULDN'T be a difficult piece to trade at the break if everything just falls apart....I'm thinking the only back-up plan right now is Jose Contreras, and that makes me really nervous at this point. Still, we have two months to wait it out, and pitchers like Ben Sheets might not get what they want.

 

Certainly, Burrell/Dunn/Grifffey/Rivera/Abreu/Bradley will be under considerable stress to get over 2 years and over $10 million per season....this both works for and against the White Sox both trading Dye and/or acquiring a LF option on the "cheap" simultaneously. Same with the "diminishing" closer's market moving against the Sox and Jenks.

Edited December 15, 2008 by caulfield12

[Lemon_44]

I don't know if it's inexcuseable, but I do know that it's not a playoff team. We BARELY made the playoffs last season, and the team has got worse this offseason and I think the division will at least be a little better.

I'm not so sure the Sox have gotten worse this off season.To me, they about the same and have a chance at being better and that's without any further moves. I'm not a stats guy but,if you take away Swisher's 3 week hot streak, i bet he hit at or bleow .200 for the year. Vasquez was mentally done in Chicago at the end of the year. Cabrera's the hardest to replace but it's not like he set the world on fire. Owens can hit .270 and be more of a base running threat than OC. The reason the division went down to the wire was because of the injuries in the bullpen. If Linebrink and Jenks were healthy all year then it probably wouldn't have been all that close. Right now, i think the Sox have a very similar team to last year's. I would like to see them get another SP so they don't have to rely 2 unproven guys at the back end of the rotation.

[caulfield12]

Francisco Liriano says "I disagree."

 

If they would have brought him up 6-8 weeks earlier, they take the division pretty easily. If Neshek isn't out for the entire season and they actually spend the money to replace him, they take the division. Same thing with acquiring either Hawkins or Bradford at the break instead of Eddie Guardado. Heck, if they hadn't signed Hernandez, Lamb and Monroe, they'd have won...or if Cuddyer hadn't been injured, etc.

 

Yes, we lost Crede, Contreras, Linebrink and Quentin, but to say we'd have walked away with the division easily simply isn't true, because no team is 100% healthy for an entire season, not even the 2005 White Sox (Pods, Big Hurt, Hermanson).

[lostfan]

IIRC, it's not like the guys in Liriano's place were pitching like ass. They didn't bring Liriano up because their rotation was doing fine at the time.