Jenks tells critics off

[Kalapse]

I have him at $5.2M, Jenks is about to get real expensive, real quick.

 

Closers in their first year of arbitration:

 

2008: Huston Street - $3.3M (coming off an injury, rather average closer for the first 3 years of his career)

2007: Chad Cordero - $4.15M (2 years previous as a full time closer, dominant in 2005, very good in 2006)

2006: Brad Lidge - $3.975M (1.5 years previous as a closer, one of the most dominant setup men in the game previously)

2006: Francisco Rodriguez - $3.75M (coming off first year as a full time closer, one of the most dominant setup men in the game previously)

[nitetrain8601]

I don't buy it. Only if all he threw was a fastball at 100mph would I. He has a hammer as well. How does lowering your velocity help you? I mean, I know it allows for a bit easier control, but at the same time, his reasoning does not fall in line with it. Because he still throws that fastball just as much, and he really hasn't developed any new pitches.

 

100mph which sometimes doesn't hit k zone & hammer >>> 94mph fastball which hits k zone more, but also gets more contact & hammer.

 

Also, despite ERA, Jenks really made a lot of those innings very interesting. Always allowed a hit here or a walk there. He has gone from a strikeout pitcher to someone who depends on his defense a ton.

[BearSox]

Lol, what a load of crock. It'd make sense if lowering his velocity put more movement on his fastball, but it hasn't. Instead of throwing a 95-98 mph straight as an arrow fastball, he's throwing a 90-94 straight as an arrow fastball. I got no problem with lowering velocity to gain more movement and control, but I highly doubt that's the case here. I wouldn't be surprised at all if his elbow was hurting before and that's why he either lost/took off velocity from his fastball

Edited December 19, 2008 by BearSox

[lostfan]

I don't buy it. Only if all he threw was a fastball at 100mph would I. He has a hammer as well. How does lowering your velocity help you? I mean, I know it allows for a bit easier control, but at the same time, his reasoning does not fall in line with it. Because he still throws that fastball just as much, and he really hasn't developed any new pitches.

 

100mph which sometimes doesn't hit k zone & hammer >>> 94mph fastball which hits k zone more, but also gets more contact & hammer.

 

Also, despite ERA, Jenks really made a lot of those innings very interesting. Always allowed a hit here or a walk there. He has gone from a strikeout pitcher to someone who depends on his defense a ton.

You kind of contradict yourself here, are we talking about the same Bobby Jenks? Bobby has always had 4 pitches, there's no need for him to develop any new ones. He still has a fastball, but he isn't one-dimensional.

Edited December 19, 2008 by lostfan

[nitetrain8601]

You kind of contradict yourself here, are we talking about the same Bobby Jenks? Bobby has always had 4 pitches, there's no need for him to develop any new ones. He still has a fastball, but he isn't one-dimensional.

 

Well exactly. He's always had those 4 pitches, so how does lowering the velocity of your most dominating pitch helpful if you're not even going to put more movement on the ball? It's a whole lot harder catching up to a 100mph you know is coming than a 94mph fastball that you know is coming.

[lostfan]

Well exactly. He's always had those 4 pitches, so how does lowering the velocity of your most dominating pitch helpful if you're not even going to put more movement on the ball? It's a whole lot harder catching up to a 100mph you know is coming than a 94mph fastball that you know is coming.

Consistently throwing off a hitter's timing and balance > wildly blowing a pitch by a guy. If you have the ability to do it anyway, not everyone does.

[Texsox]

I knew after reading the thread what the reactions would be.

 

Maybe it is all bulls***, but expanding his speed range from blazing or offspeed to Fast, blazing, or off speed seems like a more effective strategy. It also seems that dropping from all out would extend your career. Nolan Ryan was a freak of nature, Clemens was juiced, and Randy Johnson faded. I'm certain we can think of a few more.

[Princess Dye]

Oh well a good number of Soxtalk will have him traded for a really good Class A centerfielder.

 

I think most people here advocating a Jenks trade were saying do it for a huge package.

 

Because you're about to owe him a lot of money, and something he was real good at (K's) have been on the way down.

 

 

 

It's not crazy to have that view. The team has needs in other places, and I'd trade Jenks to improve those. I have more faith in our ability to close games without him than I do for top-of-the-order concerns.

[Hawkfan]

When is the talk about givin Jenks for Beltran and Pelfrey going to start?

oops

 

Post Script.. You the man Jenks

[BearSox]

Consistently throwing off a hitter's timing and balance > wildly blowing a pitch by a guy. If you have the ability to do it anyway, not everyone does.

The thing is, he isn't. For the most part, he is in the low 90's a good majority of time. Once in a while he will have a game where he reaches the mid or even the high 90's, but obviously it is nothing he can turn on or off like he says. If he was really trying to change speeds and keep hitters off balance, you'd see a lot more 95-98 mph fastball's from him in a good majority of his outings. Him saying he sacrifices velocity to get outs is quite frankly BS. Like I said, it'd be one thing if he was constantly changing the speed of his fastball, but he isn't. Also, it'd be another thing if he was sacrificing velocity for movement, but his low 90's fastball is just as straight as his high 90's fastball. The only difference is that his low 90's fastball is a whole lot more hittable and easier to time up, and it makes his other pitches worse.

 

I feel Jenks gave up his velocity for possibly two reasons, (1) to get better location, and the one I think is the main reason, (2) His elbow/shoulder/arm was/still is hurting him a lot and not throwing as hard is keeping his arm from falling off.

[fathom]

When Jenks had his plus plus fastball, he was able to fool a lot more hitters with his curveball. Last year, it seemed a lot of hitters were able to lay off the curve because they weren't as geared up for the fastball. I'll gladly take the Jenks for the 2005 World Series that could throw it by anyone, and would like to see his average fastball rise into the 95-96 mph range again.

[BearSox]

When Jenks had his plus plus fastball, he was able to fool a lot more hitters with his curveball. Last year, it seemed a lot of hitters were able to lay off the curve because they weren't as geared up for the fastball. I'll gladly take the Jenks for the 2005 World Series that could throw it by anyone, and would like to see his average fastball rise into the 95-96 mph range again.

The thing is, I don't think it can, and if he can, his arm would probably develop too much pain for him to handle and thus lead to injuries, surgery, losing money, etc.

Edited December 19, 2008 by BearSox

[nitetrain8601]

Consistently throwing off a hitter's timing and balance > wildly blowing a pitch by a guy. If you have the ability to do it anyway, not everyone does.

 

And he couldn't do that with a 100mph fastball? BS, the speed differential would be greater between his fastball and his offspeed stuff therefore making all of his pitches much more devastating. I love Bobby as much as anyone, but his control didn't drastically improve in my eyes and he doesn't have any great movement on that pitch. And as what was already stated, he doesn't have any variations in his fastball. He throws it the same everytime down. Now if he threw it at 100mph, then slowed it down to 92, then you would be onto something.

Edited December 19, 2008 by nitetrain8601

[Disco72]

And he couldn't do that with a 100mph fastball? BS, the speed differential would be greater between his fastball and his offspeed stuff therefore making all of his pitches much more devastating. I love Bobby as much as anyone, but his control didn't drastically improve in my eyes and he doesn't have any great movement on that pitch. And as what was already stated, he doesn't have any variations in his fastball. He throws it the same everytime down. Now if he threw it at 100mph, then slowed it down to 92, then you would be onto something.

 

Oh really? Maybe not in your eyes, but the statistics tell a different story. BB/9 by year:

 

2005: 3.43

2006: 4.00

2007: 1.80

2008: 2.48

 

He is definitely walking fewer people, which is one part of better control.

[BearSox]

Oh really? Maybe not in your eyes, but the statistics tell a different story. BB/9 by year:

 

2005: 3.43

2006: 4.00

2007: 1.80

2008: 2.48

 

He is definitely walking fewer people, which is one part of better control.

Well, there is the question is his decreased walk total due in part of his lessened velocity (plays at least a part), or his progression as a pitcher? Most pitcher's walk total's steadly decrease as they get better.

[SpringfieldFan]

I believe Jenks - mostly. I think he made a decision to drop velocity in part for the reasons he stated. However, I don't think he had the ability to just dial it up again at will. If he could, I think he would have. Why did he revist three digits only in that last game against the Twins? It seems if he always had that ultra heater in his arsenal he would have broken it out at least a handful of times to let hitters know he still had it or to get a critical out when his back was against the wall. Wouldn't a 100mph heater have been a nice pitch to slip in against that pesky Gathright when he had a chance to set that record? How about some of those times when he was slumping and blowing saves, yet still wouldn't leave the low 90's? It just doesn't quite add up to me. I agree dropping the heat a little overall is a prudent move for all the reasons he stated, but at least keeping it availavle for a few critical occasions seems like a no-brainer to me.

[Texsox]

I think Bobby reads Soxtalk.

 

 

Maybe if he knew something about baseball he could post here.

[greg775]

I like when studs like Bobby fight back. It's easy to be an expert from a computer or from the stands. Bobby is a stud.

[ThunderBolt]

I like when studs like Bobby fight back. It's easy to be an expert from a computer or from the stands. Bobby is a stud.

Where else can one be an expert? Should i assume the TV?

Edited December 19, 2008 by Thunderbolt

[Jordan4life_2007]

Was Bobby on his period when he did this interview?

 

Can you blame him? He's the only closer in the game that's not allowed to simply get guys out. I really don't give two s***s why his velocity has gone down. He gets the job done.

Edited December 19, 2008 by Jordan4life

[caulfield12]

I believe Jenks - mostly. I think he made a decision to drop velocity in part for the reasons he stated. However, I don't think he had the ability to just dial it up again at will. If he could, I think he would have. Why did he revist three digits only in that last game against the Twins? It seems if he always had that ultra heater in his arsenal he would have broken it out at least a handful of times to let hitters know he still had it or to get a critical out when his back was against the wall. Wouldn't a 100mph heater have been a nice pitch to slip in against that pesky Gathright when he had a chance to set that record? How about some of those times when he was slumping and blowing saves, yet still wouldn't leave the low 90's? It just doesn't quite add up to me. I agree dropping the heat a little overall is a prudent move for all the reasons he stated, but at least keeping it availavle for a few critical occasions seems like a no-brainer to me.

 

That 98-100 MPH heater would have been very helpful in the blown "Ken Harrelson HEART Carlos Gomez" game up in the Dome...does anyone have a replay of that game available? How hard was he throwing in the 9th inning of that game?

Edited December 19, 2008 by caulfield12

[Kalapse]

That 98-100 MPH heater would have been very helpful in the blown "Ken Harrelson HEART Carlos Gomez" game up in the Dome...does anyone have a replay of that game available? How hard was he throwing in the 9th inning of that game?

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[G&T]

That 98-100 MPH heater would have been very helpful in the blown "Ken Harrelson HEART Carlos Gomez" game up in the Dome...does anyone have a replay of that game available? How hard was he throwing in the 9th inning of that game?

 

Gomez would have it anyway. Gomez would not have hit a curveball, which is what Jenks should have thrown.

[DBAHO]

When Jenks had his plus plus fastball, he was able to fool a lot more hitters with his curveball. Last year, it seemed a lot of hitters were able to lay off the curve because they weren't as geared up for the fastball. I'll gladly take the Jenks for the 2005 World Series that could throw it by anyone, and would like to see his average fastball rise into the 95-96 mph range again.

So long as Bobby's ERA stays low, and he stays healthy, I don't care what version we have.

 

Just so long as he gets the job done.

[bmags]

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Where does he get those wonderful toys