Jenks tells critics off

[Kyyle23]

Bobby: I can throw fast if I wanted to but I don't

 

Soxtalk: NUH UH!

 

LMAO

[SpringfieldFan]

You don't care about the stats (read: actual results of baseball games/ plays) because they directly contradict your bulls*** assertions.

 

 

 

Sure, we'd all love a Bobby Jenks who can pitch exactly as he did last year and a 100 MPH fastball with movement, but that's not the argument. The argument that some are trying to make is that his drop in velocity over the past two seasons are a clear indication that he's becoming less effective when the exact opposite is true.

 

Point taken, and to be honest I was surpised his numbers hadn't appreciably dropped. However, the argument to me was whether the cause for Jenks' drop in velocity was strategic or physical (injury). I don't believe it was strategic because he could still keep the basic "strategy" yet reserve the 100mph for at least a handful of special occasions (i.e. Gathright). But yes, he remains as effective as ever at closing games. Well, maybe not as effective as in WS05, but that was obviously as tiny "sample size".

Edited December 21, 2008 by SpringfieldFan

[witesoxfan]

The easiest way to fix Jenks is to not let him pitch against Baltimore. His ERA and WHIP against every other opponent are 2.81 and 1.09 respectively.

[StrangeSox]

Point taken, and to be honest I was surpised his numbers hadn't appreciably dropped. However, the argument to me was whether the cause for Jenks' drop in velocity was strategic or physical (injury). I don't believe it was strategic because he could still keep the basic "strategy" yet reserve the 100mph for at least a handful of special occasions (i.e. Gathright). But yes, he remains as effective as ever at closing games. Well, maybe not as effective as in WS05, but that was obviously as tiny "sample size".

 

IIRC, he was hitting high 90's in several games to close out the year.

 

I don't have a problem with Bobby dialing it down a bit (as long as he remains effective, which he has) during most of the year in order to preserve his arm. It's better for him and its better for the Sox.

Edited December 23, 2008 by StrangeSox

[YASNY]

Let me throw a few names out here. Eddie Fisher, Bob Locker, Hoyt Wilhelm, Roberto Hernandez, Bob James, Bobby Thigpen, Scott Radinsky, Goose Gossage, Terry Forster, Keith Foulke. At one time or another each of these guys has been the shut down reliever for the White Sox. I also remember each and every one of them as White Sox.

 

In his time in a Sox uniform, Bobby Jenks has been as good or better than any of these guys while they were members of the Sox. How anyone can not see just how effective Bobby Jenks has been is beyond me. I don't care if his heater tops out at 72, the guy has been getting the job done.

[Dick Allen]

That's not a very good measure for closers. When used properly, Jenks will almost always come in just for the 9th, or the closing inning. The few times he didn't are aberrant and would skew the data oddly. That measure is really only useful for non-closing relievers.

 

For a closer, the ultimate measure is Save % (not gross total), and then behind that are your normal performance numbers - ERA, WHIP, K/9, etc.

If that's the case, Shingo should never have lost his job. He was 19-20 in save opportunities in 2004 and 8-9 in 2005 when he lost the job. I don't think there's a person around who thinks Shingo shouldn't have lost his job as the closer.

 

I also don't think anyone is arguing Jenks' effectiveness to this point. The question is how long will it last?

Edited December 23, 2008 by Dick Allen

[DBAHO]

The easiest way to fix Jenks is to not let him pitch against Baltimore. His ERA and WHIP against every other opponent are 2.81 and 1.09 respectively.

Yeah for some reason he always struggles against them, and has for the past few seasons. I wonder why that is?

[NorthSideSox72]

If that's the case, Shingo should never have lost his job. He was 19-20 in save opportunities in 2004 and 8-9 in 2005 when he lost the job. I don't think there's a person around who thinks Shingo shouldn't have lost his job as the closer.

 

I also don't think anyone is arguing Jenks' effectiveness to this point. The question is how long will it last?

I didn't say saves/opps was the ONLY measure. Shingo had a 5.97 ERA, a 1.61 WHIP, a couple losses early on, and did poorly when not in save situations. Also note that he came in to close out games often, started to give up hits/runs, and was pulled for someone else who would close it for him.

 

Inherited runners scored is useless as a measure for closers, unless you also use them as middle relievers. That's the point I was making.

 

 

[Dick Allen]

. Also note that he came in to close out games often, started to give up hits/runs, and was pulled for someone else who would close it for him.

I don't think that's true. I think if it were it would count as a blown save and he only had 2 of those in his White Sox career.

 

[NorthSideSox72]

I don't think that's true. I think if it were it would count as a blown save and he only had 2 of those in his White Sox career.

No, it wouldn't be a blown save unless he allowed the game to be tied or lost, as I understand it.

 

If you come in with a 3 run lead, and give up a run and a runner, and the guy behind you closes out the game... I don't think there is a blown save there. Correct me if I am wrong.

 

Anyway, yet again, NOT MY POINT. Just an example. Point is the suggested measure is not relevant for closers.