White Sox named as a possibility for Garland

[qwerty]

He gave up 23 homeruns last season in a pitcher's park and failed to throw 200 innings. There's also that knot in his shoulder.

 

The last two seasons have actually been a major improvement compared to how much of a pitchers park angel stadium used to play as.

 

2004- 0.545- Dead Last

 

2005- 0.630- Dead last

 

2006- 0.906- 26th

 

2007- 1.808- 2nd--- WTF?

 

2008- 1.017-16th

 

 

 

 

[Kalapse]

18 Home Starts, 11 HR

14 Road Starts, 12 HR

 

He had to face the Texas offense 3 times (5 HR in those 3 starts), and was a hole 3.1 IP from reaching 200. Like I said, I'd welcome him back as 4th starter.

So it's ok if he allows homeruns to Ben Broussard and Gerald Laird at home because they play for the Rangers. Garland was incredibly wild last season with only 48% of his total pitches finding the strike zone leading to a joke of a WHIP that will lead to a s*** load of runs crossing the plate with a bad White Sox defense behind him.

[YonderLaroche]

This team has a ton of holes.. they could start off by signing him to solidify the pitching staff.. then CF (leadoff hitter) and SS (our defense is gonna suck ass!!! Would not mind bringing back Cabrera too)

[ThunderBolt]

This team has a ton of holes.. they could start off by signing him to solidify the pitching staff.. then CF (leadoff hitter) and SS (our defense is gonna suck ass!!! Would not mind bringing back Cabrera too)

Cabrera will never be in a White Sox uniform again.

[Steve9347]

He gave up 23 homeruns last season in a pitcher's park and failed to throw 200 innings. There's also that knot in his shoulder.

Thank you Mr. Scout.

 

I'd trust Garland could get back near his career averages.

[Kalapse]

Gerald Laird (@ home), Ben Broussard (@ home), Richie Sexson (in SEA), Daric Barton (at home), Jack Hannahan (@ home), Rod Barajas (@ home & in TOR), Travis Buck (in OAK), Wily Mo Pena (in WAS), Elijah Dukes (in WAS)

 

That's just a few of the HR he allowed out of his first 12 last season. Those are some awful hitters coming in (mostly) pitchers parks.

[Steve9347]

So it's ok if he allows homeruns to Ben Broussard and Gerald Laird at home because they play for the Rangers. Garland was incredibly wild last season with only 48% of his total pitches finding the strike zone leading to a joke of a WHIP that will lead to a s*** load of runs crossing the plate with a bad White Sox defense behind him.

Kalapse. I know, I know you have your calculator out and you looove stats. Stats are neat. Sometimes, you have to just look at the player.

 

If you tell me we have Jon Garland, I tell you that's one rotation spot that we needn't worry about almost ever. I'd bet anything if he wound up on the Sox he'd pitch at least 200 innings and win at least 15 games.

[SoxFan1]

So it's ok if he allows homeruns to Ben Broussard and Gerald Laird at home because they play for the Rangers. Garland was incredibly wild last season with only 48% of his total pitches finding the strike zone leading to a joke of a WHIP that will lead to a s*** load of runs crossing the plate with a bad White Sox defense behind him.

You're right, Marquez/Poreda/Broadway/Nunez/Richard are all more established MLB pitchers and have a better chance of being successful than Garland. Give me the guy we know, the guy we've seen, and the guy we know is going to give us 30 starts.

[DaTank]

Thank you Mr. Scout.

 

I'd trust Garland could get back near his career averages.

 

He just needs to start hangin' with Coop again.

[Kalapse]

Thank you Mr. Scout.

 

I'd trust Garland could get back near his career averages.

Congrats to you, I'm sure your hunches serve you well in life. I'll just continue discussing the topic at hand rather than stifling the conversation with condescending remarks.

[Steve9347]

Congrats to you, I'm sure your hunches serve you well in life. I'll just continue discussing the topic at hand rather than stifling the conversation with condescending remarks.

You'll just stifle the convo with stats we can all pull up with our computers. We get it. It's cool, man. Garland wasn't phenomenal last year, but 14-8 out of your 4th starter isn't exactly going to kill a team, and I'm sure it's better than having 2 of Poreda, Marquez, or Richard in the rotation.

Edited December 18, 2008 by Steve9347

[ThunderBolt]

You're right, Marquez/Poreda/Broadway/Nunez/Richard are all more established MLB pitchers and have a better chance of being successful than Garland. Give me the guy we know, the guy we've seen, and the guy we know is going to give us 30 starts.

So, give us a guy back whose on a Paul Byrd-like Career path or try guys with tons more potential like Poreda and Richard? If we want 2005 nostalgia then we know what option, if we want to put ourselves in the best position for the future we best give some of these kids a shot.

 

[SoxFan1]

Gerald Laird (@ home), Ben Broussard (@ home), Richie Sexson (in SEA), Daric Barton (at home), Jack Hannahan (@ home), Rod Barajas (@ home & in TOR), Travis Buck (in OAK), Wily Mo Pena (in WAS), Elijah Dukes (in WAS)

 

That's just a few of the HR he allowed out of his first 12 last season. Those are some awful hitters coming in (mostly) pitchers parks.

Ryan Garko, Guillermo Quiroz, Ben Francisco, Kelly Shoppach, Miguel Olivo, Rich Aurilia, Marco Scutaro...just some of the names John Danks gave up HR to in 2008.

[Steve9347]

Ryan Garko, Guillermo Quiroz, Ben Francisco, Kelly Shoppach, Miguel Olivo, Rich Aurilia, Marco Scutaro...just some of the names John Danks gave up HR to in 2008.

Jeez, he's awful, we should trade him.

[caulfield12]

The thing is, we had a more talented version of Jon Garland, and his name was Javy Vazquez. Granted, someone will point to post-season 2005 (over three seasons ago now) as the differentiating factor, Javy's post-season meltdowns, but I doubt Garland would have fetched the same package as Javy did from the Braves.

 

It's very simple....if Marquez, Poreda/Richard, Broadway, Egbert, etc., can't get it done...then KW has to scoop up one of those bargain basement FA pitchers (like Livan Hernandez last year) and hit gold like he did with Loaiza. Someone like a Daniel Cabrera (but probably not him) is lurking and the White Sox know exactly who they'd want and at what price.

 

Signing Garland just doesn't make much sense when they fought hard to get a return on Vazquez, who would have a pretty similar contract.

 

We're all saying we can get Garland for $20 milllion over 2 years. Kyle Lohse just got over $40 million for four years. Not to mention the fact that of the second-tier options Garland has the best track record in terms of health and durability. Someone who loses out on Lowe will go after him, and for more money than we think at this point. When we see starting pitchers' contracts start to go down, I'll believe the dire economic predictions. So far, it's only seeming to affect closers, LF/1B/DH types (although the Ibanez deal was a shocker!) and Orlando Cabrera.

 

Cabrera's not worth $10 million in this economy, Vazquez is not worth $11.5 million and Garland is probably not worth $10-12 million per season either.

 

 

[Kalapse]

You'll just stifle the convo with stats we can all pull up with our computers. We get it. It's cool, man. Garland wasn't phenomenal last year, but 14-8 out of your 4th starter isn't exactly going to kill a team, and I'm sure it's better than having 2 of Poreda, Marquez, or Richard in the rotation.

Then why even discuss the topic if everyone can just pull up the numbers themselves? Why do we even bother posting stats? We should all just agree. Did you know Garland was probably overthrowing last year? His velocity was up, his control was down and he payed dearly for it. Was he overcompensating? Was he all amped up pitching in a contract year? Why not make an argument like that? Garland > a bunch of unproven youngsters. Fun, what an enthralling discussion we've got going here. It's almost impossible to get some good convo going here now a days. At least Slav humored me for a while.

 

Oh and I don't give a s*** what his record was, it's f***ing meaningless.

[clyons]

He . . . failed to throw 200 innings.

 

 

That's kind of pimpy, considering he threw 196.2 and made 32 starts. Especially in light of the Angels pen.

[Steve9347]

The thing is, we had a more talented version of Jon Garland, and his name was Javy Vazquez.

Vazquez: 127-129

Garland: 106-89

 

Wins are all that f***ing matters!

[caulfield12]

You'll just stifle the convo with stats we can all pull up with our computers. We get it. It's cool, man. Garland wasn't phenomenal last year, but 14-8 out of your 4th starter isn't exactly going to kill a team, and I'm sure it's better than having 2 of Poreda, Marquez, or Richard in the rotation.

 

 

Well, the Angels were a darned good team, so of course his wins are up there. Danks' W-L percentage isn't a very good measure of 2008, is it?

 

Look behind the numbers at Garland or E. Santana and you'll see some interesting things. I always thought Santana was better than he actually is.

 

Also, if you just want to point to W-L records, we have a season where Danny Wright won 14 games with a 5.18 ERA, which was 0.2 higher than JG.

 

 

[SoxFan1]

At least Slav humored me for a while.

I'm flattered.

[Steve9347]

Then why even discuss the topic if everyone can just pull up the numbers themselves? Why do we even bother posting stats?

 

Did you know Garland was probably overthrowing last year? His velocity was up, his control was down and he payed dearly for it. Was he overcompensating? Was he all amped up pitching in a contract year?

It's "paid". Oh, and Coop'll fix 'im.

 

Oh and I don't give a s*** what his record was, it's f***ing meaningless.

Record is all that matters. Good pitchers find ways to win games.

[caulfield12]

Vazquez: 127-129

Garland: 106-89

 

Wins are all that f***ing matters!

 

 

You're telling me that you can make this comparison and "control" for the overall performances for the teams those guys pitched for over their entire careers...I'm not going to argue Vazquez is great, but by your theory, we should sign Andy Pettitte for $15 million per season, or Mike Mussina...because their overall W-L records with the Yankees will hold up against any pitcher.

 

Or maybe the Mariners would trade us Felix Hernandez straight up for Garland because of Jon's overall winning record vis a vis King Felix. If you were the GM, would you really make that move?

[Kalapse]

Ryan Garko, Guillermo Quiroz, Ben Francisco, Kelly Shoppach, Miguel Olivo, Rich Aurilia, Marco Scutaro...just some of the names John Danks gave up HR to in 2008.

You said he'll keep the ball in the park. I disagreed. You said he allowed 5 HRs to a potent Rangers offense and that most of those HRs allowed came on the road. I listed a few of the s***ty hitters he allowed HRs to in pitchers parks (on the road), see if you hadn't mentioned that Rangers offense I never would have listed the s***ty hitters he allowed homeruns to (2 of which played for the Rangers). This has nothing to do with a 23 year old allowing 15 HRs in his 2nd full season in the bigs (incredibly impressive) it has to do with the fact that for a ground ball pitcher, Garland gives up a good amount of HRs even while pitching in pitchers parks.

[RockRaines]

18 Home Starts, 11 HR

14 Road Starts, 12 HR

 

He had to face the Texas offense 3 times (5 HR in those 3 starts), and was a hole 3.1 IP from reaching 200. Like I said, I'd welcome him back as 4th starter.

He's a perfect 4th starter because he eats valuable innings (saves the pen and the young guys) and also has the capability to rattle off a good #2-3 starter type of year if everything happens right. I think you could grab Garland for 3 years 25 million.

[Kalapse]

 

 

It's "paid". Oh, and Coop'll fix 'im.

 

 

Record is all that matters. Good pitchers find ways to win games.

This is exactly what I'm talking about, instead of discussing the topic at hand you have to get all personal and correct grammatical errors. Indicators of a person who doesn't know how to conduct himself in an argument.

 

And no, a pitcher's W/L record is not a good way of proving his worth as a player.