Marquez 2009 Stats = Javy 2008?

[scenario]

there's no recent scouting report that indicates his stuff is good again now

 

Really... What scouting reports have you read?

 

i have no idea why anyone would think he'd be decent at the major-league level in any role whatsoever in 2009.... with the info we have, it's unrealistic to expect a notable contribution out of him in the bigs this year.

 

I guess KW didn't get the memo...

 

 

"He absolutely can challenge for a spot," White Sox general manager Ken Williams said. "We have a good read as to who he is and what he brings to the table. He shows a fastball at 90-94 mph, with a lot of sink."

 

Marquez entered 2008 ranked as the Yankees' No. 7 prospect but suffered through a disappointing season, limited to 19 starts because of a shoulder strain.

 

Williams compares him to former White Sox righthander Jon Garland, whose sinker allowed him to be successful at hitter-friendly U.S. Cellular Park.

 

"It's a similar style to Garland in our ballpark," Williams said. "In addition, he has a slider and curveball with depth, and a power change to both righthanded and lefthanded hitters. He also holds runners on well, something we have not been too successful with in the last couple of years, and he fields his position."

Edited December 21, 2008 by scenario

[witesoxfan]

Marquez's AFL performance:

 

9 G, 5 GS...24.0 IP, 29 H, 10 BB, 20 K, 5.63 ERA, 1.63 WHIP

 

All statistical signs point to him not being Major League ready.

 

The K-rate is actually good to see, as that is a vast improvement on what he did last year. Perhaps the coaches at the AFL were trying to have him do something differently and he improved it.

 

Still, the K/BB isn't good at all and the walk rate is mediocre.

 

I think, if anything, he'll be similar to what Floyd gave the Sox in 2007.

[Jordan4life_2007]

I'm thinking his 6-7 record in AAA with a 4.69 ERA with a 1.45 WHIP with 2.7 BB/9 innings and 3.7 k/9 innings with 1.3 HR/9 innings all at the AAA level suggest something totally different than what you predict. You think he will do better in the AL than in AAA. I find that hard to believe. He's never pitched more than 155 innings on the minor league level and has pitched over 102 innings twice. I think he may wind up in Masset's old role if he isn't in Charlotte. Maybe someday a 5th starter. He's not nearly the elite prospect Danks was when he was acquired.

 

So I take it you wanted no part of guys like Contreras, Floyd, Marte and Thornton when they were first brought in? Since you love putting so much stock in raw numbers and raw numbers alone. The selective memory around here by some baffles me. And it's the same predictable people every time. Marquez could very well suck ass. Who knows. You haven't seen him. I haven't seen him. Even if we did, it still wouldn't mean s***. We all know how Kenny operates. He, Rick Hahn and their people don't obsess over raw numbers. They scout overall talent/stuff/makeup/I.Q./ect. Is it a perfect formula? Of course not. But he's had more than enough success with these kinds of acquisitions that the guy should at least be given a chance. Not the typical "Well, his minor league numbers last year sucked. So that means he must suck" drivel we go through EVERY year.

Edited December 21, 2008 by Jordan4life

[YASNY]

So I take it you wanted no part of guys like Contreras, Floyd, Marte and Thornton when they were first brought in? Since you love putting so much stock in raw numbers and raw numbers alone. The selective memory around here by some baffles me. And it's the same predictable people every time. Marquez could very well suck ass. Who knows. You haven't seen him. I haven't seen him. Even if we did, it still wouldn't mean s***. We all know how Kenny operates. He, Rick Hahn and their people don't obsess over raw numbers. They scout overall talent/stuff/makeup/I.Q./ect. Is it a perfect formula? Of course not. But he's had more than enough success with these kinds of acquisitions that the guy should at least be given a chance. Not the typical "Well, his minor league numbers last year sucked. So that means he must suck" drivel we go through EVERY year.

 

Drivel. Nice word selection. It's perfect.

[beck72]

Here's why I think Marquez could do decent in the 5th spot in'09, while both Floyd and Danks struggled to start their sox careers. All three were 1st round picks, though Marquez was 41st and Floyd a 4th and Danks, IIRC a 7th or 9th pick. Floyd had a lot more to work through, and his struggles were a few years in the making. Danks was young, and not quite ready-even though he had a decent 1st half. Marquez has only struggled 1 year, and isn't as green as Danks was. This isn't to say I think Marquez has a better ceiling than those 2. It's just that it's possible Marquez has a better start to his sox career in the bigs than those 2.

 

Looking just at the 2008 numbers, Marquez looks like another AAA/ AAAA scrub. But if the sox had a SP prospect in AA who started the All Star game, a 1st round pick, a guy who projected like a #2 or #3 starter, and struggled the next year in AAA--the only season in the minors that he did, possibly due to an injury, few would be looking to trade him. Most would expect the guy to bounce back.

 

It's not like the guy was a 40th round pick, had one breakout season, and fell back to earth as he faced higher level competition. The sox scouts Young and Pellant know talent. The Sox traded Javy for lower level prospects like Gilmore and Rodriguez when it was reported they could have had a major league ready arm like Jo Jo Reyes or Charlie Morton. If the sox were so concerned about the SP situation why didn't they add Reyes or Morton? It didn't make sense. But if you look at it like the sox think they already can fill 2 spots between Poreda, Richard and Marquez, it does make sense. I personally would like the sox to add another SP. But the sox don't seem too concerned about adding another SP, via free agency or trade [bailey, who's talked about the most, seems more in line with needing the "Floyd treatment"-extended time to work through issues before helping the big league club].

[witesoxfan]

Looking just at the 2008 numbers, Marquez looks like another AAA/ AAAA scrub. But if the sox had a SP prospect in AA who started the All Star game, a 1st round pick, a guy who projected like a #2 or #3 starter, and struggled the next year in AAA--the only season in the minors that he did, possibly due to an injury, few would be looking to trade him. Most would expect the guy to bounce back.

 

You mean like Jack Egbert?

[beck72]

You mean like Jack Egbert?

There are similarities, such as having good numbers in most of his minor league stops and playing in an ASG. Yet Egbert only was looked at as a top prospect heading into 2008, a 13th rd pick, a year older than Marquez, and viewed as a 5th SP at best. Going by numbers, Egbert would seem a decent bet to bounce back. But "stuff-wise", Egbert hasn't had the tools to get people's attention. It's odd, but hardly a word of him gets mentioned.

[Dick Allen]

So I take it you wanted no part of guys like Contreras, Floyd, Marte and Thornton when they were first brought in? Since you love putting so much stock in raw numbers and raw numbers alone. The selective memory around here by some baffles me. And it's the same predictable people every time. Marquez could very well suck ass. Who knows. You haven't seen him. I haven't seen him. Even if we did, it still wouldn't mean s***. We all know how Kenny operates. He, Rick Hahn and their people don't obsess over raw numbers. They scout overall talent/stuff/makeup/I.Q./ect. Is it a perfect formula? Of course not. But he's had more than enough success with these kinds of acquisitions that the guy should at least be given a chance. Not the typical "Well, his minor league numbers last year sucked. So that means he must suck" drivel we go through EVERY year.

As a matter of fact, I've been one Jose Contreras' biggest backers on this site. I was one of the few that didn't want him gone even in 2005. I also am a Marte fan, and mentioned Matt Thornton as a potential pick up 3 months before he became a White Sox. I admittedly wasn't a fan of Gavin Floyd and still am not sold. The numbers suggest some things. Marquez has always given up a good amount of hits. He doesn't strike very many out. To suggest he will do things he's never done before during his minor league career on the major league level is crazy. I'm sorry I bring reality into the equation. You're basing everything on a conference call. Remember, KW also said Gio Gonzalez was one of the top 2 left handed pitching prospects in baseball along with Danks. People on this board, since the White Sox dumped him say he sucks.

 

If Minnesota traded a .219 hitter who strikes out all the time and was owed $24 million for 3 players including Marquez and said Marquez would be the 4th starter, your opinion about his ability would be no higher than mine, and maybe lower. Its not up to me to "give him a chance." The White Sox will do that. I hope he does well, I just don't see how anyone can expect itinnings?

 

BTW, you seem to be hypocritical. Why don't you give Clayton Richard a chance? After all he has a lower ERA, WHIP and walk rate and a higher k rate than Marquez in the minor leagues. Here's a quote from you:

 

Selective memory? Richard doesn't suck? An era over 6? A WHIP of 1.55? BAA of over .300? He's garbage. A typical White Sox farmhand. And we've got people saying he should've started game 1 of a playoff series because he pitched a couple of nice innings?

 

Here's scenerio's response to your post:

Hey, if the 'typical WhiteSox farmhand' dominated at AA and AAA and got selected for the Olympic Team and the Futures Game, we'd all be very happy.

 

Why is it that people think when a rookie player comes up that they either have to dominate everyone right away or they suck?

 

 

 

You seem to be the one with the selective memory. Garbage. Typical White Sox farmhand. So its not the "his minor league numbers suck, so he must suck" you live by. You're opposed to that. But, White Sox farmhand and garbage go together.

Edited December 21, 2008 by Dick Allen

[beck72]

As a matter of fact, I've been one Jose Contreras' biggest backers on this site. I was one of the few that didn't want him gone even in 2005. I also am a Marte fan, and mentioned Matt Thornton as a potential pick up 3 months before he became a White Sox. I admittedly wasn't a fan of Gavin Floyd and still am not sold. The numbers suggest some things. Marquez has always given up a good amount of hits. He doesn't strike very many out. To suggest he will do things he's never done before during his minor league career on the major league level is crazy. I'm sorry I bring reality into the equation. You're basing everything on a conference call. Remember, KW also said Gio Gonzalez was one of the top 2 left handed pitching prospects in baseball along with Danks. People on this board, since the White Sox dumped him say he sucks.

 

If Minnesota traded a .219 hitter who strikes out all the time and was owed $24 million for 3 players including Marquez and said Marquez would be the 4th starter, your opinion about his ability would be no higher than mine, and maybe lower. Its not up to me to "give him a chance." The White Sox will do that. I hope he does well, I just don't see how anyone can expect it.

 

Marquez has been compared to Chein-Ming Wang and Garland. They also have similar numbers in the minors. It's not that crazy to suggest Marquez may have success in the majors based on what he has done in the minors. Wang had success right away in the majors [iIRC, like a 4.04 ERA in 17 starts], after throwing 478 innings in the minors. Marquez has thrown 560 minor league innings. Garland also threw 474 innings before being called up.

ERA H/ 9 Hr/9 BB/9 K/9 WHIP

Wang 3.37 8.9 0.5 2.0 7.1 1.21

Marquez 3.60 9.5 0.5 3.1 6.4 1.39

Garland 3.55 9.1 0.6 3.2 6.4 1.37

Majors:

Wang 3.79 9.1 0.5 2.5 4.0 1.29

Garland 4.47 9.5 1.1 2.9 4.7 1.38

 

What stands out is Wangs control compared to Marquez, and his drop in K/9 from the minors. Also, Garland's HR rate went up.

Edited December 21, 2008 by beck72

[eickevinmorris]

Marquez has been compared to Chein-Ming Wang and Garland. They also have similar numbers in the minors. It's not that crazy to suggest Marquez may have success in the majors based on what he has done in the minors. Wang had success right away in the majors [iIRC, like a 4.04 ERA in 17 starts], after throwing 478 innings in the minors. Marquez has thrown 560 minor league innings. Garland also threw 474 innings before being called up.

ERA H/ 9 Hr/9 BB/9 K/9 WHIP

Wang 3.37 8.9 0.5 2.0 7.1 1.21

Marquez 3.60 9.5 0.5 3.1 6.4 1.39

Garland 3.55 9.1 0.6 3.2 6.4 1.37

Majors:

Wang 3.79 9.1 0.5 2.5 4.0 1.29

Garland 4.47 9.5 1.1 2.9 4.7 1.38

 

What stands out is Wangs control compared to Marquez, and his drop in K/9 from the minors. Also, Garland's HR rate went up.

Trust me, the people making those comparisons are nuts.

 

[Jordan4life_2007]

As a matter of fact, I've been one Jose Contreras' biggest backers on this site. I was one of the few that didn't want him gone even in 2005. I also am a Marte fan, and mentioned Matt Thornton as a potential pick up 3 months before he became a White Sox. I admittedly wasn't a fan of Gavin Floyd and still am not sold. The numbers suggest some things. Marquez has always given up a good amount of hits. He doesn't strike very many out. To suggest he will do things he's never done before during his minor league career on the major league level is crazy. I'm sorry I bring reality into the equation. You're basing everything on a conference call. Remember, KW also said Gio Gonzalez was one of the top 2 left handed pitching prospects in baseball along with Danks. People on this board, since the White Sox dumped him say he sucks.

 

If Minnesota traded a .219 hitter who strikes out all the time and was owed $24 million for 3 players including Marquez and said Marquez would be the 4th starter, your opinion about his ability would be no higher than mine, and maybe lower. Its not up to me to "give him a chance." The White Sox will do that. I hope he does well, I just don't see how anyone can expect itinnings?

 

BTW, you seem to be hypocritical. Why don't you give Clayton Richard a chance? After all he has a lower ERA, WHIP and walk rate and a higher k rate than Marquez in the minor leagues. Here's a quote from you:

 

Selective memory? Richard doesn't suck? An era over 6? A WHIP of 1.55? BAA of over .300? He's garbage. A typical White Sox farmhand. And we've got people saying he should've started game 1 of a playoff series because he pitched a couple of nice innings?

 

Here's scenerio's response to your post:

Hey, if the 'typical WhiteSox farmhand' dominated at AA and AAA and got selected for the Olympic Team and the Futures Game, we'd all be very happy.

 

Why is it that people think when a rookie player comes up that they either have to dominate everyone right away or they suck?

 

 

 

You seem to be the one with the selective memory. Garbage. Typical White Sox farmhand. So its not the "his minor league numbers suck, so he must suck" you live by. You're opposed to that. But, White Sox farmhand and garbage go together.

 

Don't have time to respond to this entire post. But here are a couple things I've posted about Richard since then.

 

From December 15th.

 

I was a Richard hater during the season. I admit I was being kinda ignorant, as I didn't know a whole lot about him. But I've done my homework and I think the kid's got a future. Scenario, what do you think would be the most realistic, best-case scenario (no pun intended) for Richard in 2009?

 

From December 14th.

 

The pitching? I was a CR hater during the season. But a combination of his playoff performance, coupled with me doing extensive homework on the guy (Scenario has been very helpful providing the low-down), and I think he can be at least a serviceable #4. You obviously hope for more. I still don't know a whole lot about Marquez. But Kenny and his crew are very high on him. So we shall see. Of course, as has been mentioned, things can chance in a hurry with one trade. But as of right this second, I'm fine going into the season with what we have.

 

So there it is. Funny you remembered my negative post but forgot the others. And I've also said in the Jon Garland thread about 20 times that we're better off giving Richard a chance over bringing him back. And not that this is an excuse, but I was so mad from Javy melting down in game 1 again that I was taking my frustration out on everybody. And even if I hadn't realized I was off base regarding Richard, he's a totally different situation from Marquez anyway. Clayton is a White Sox draftee. And we've had little to no success in developing our OWN pitchers. So at least I would have a somewhat decent arguement in my initial reaction, even if I hadn't changed my mind. Guys like Marquez are where Kenny has shined. And people like you seems to be the ones that forget that, I don't know, every single year.

Edited December 21, 2008 by Jordan4life

[Princess Dye]

Richard doesn't suck? An era over 6? A WHIP of 1.55? BAA of over .300? He's garbage. A typical White Sox farmhand. And we've got people saying he should've started game 1 of a playoff series because he pitched a couple of nice innings?

 

To be fair to Richard, we really dont have enough of a sample size on him to dismiss.

 

I would say the same to those who solely focus on his postseason success

[Dick Allen]

To be fair to Richard, we really dont have enough of a sample size on him to dismiss.

 

I would say the same to those who solely focus on his postseason success

This was actually jordan4life's post on Oct. 2. I posted it to show just how hypocritical he is slamming people who don't think Marquez will be much help in 2009 for "not giving him a chance."

[eickevinmorris]

Selective memory? Richard doesn't suck? An era over 6? A WHIP of 1.55? BAA of over .300? He's garbage. A typical White Sox farmhand. And we've got people saying he should've started game 1 of a playoff series because he pitched a couple of nice innings?

It's ridiculous to dismiss Richard after his 2008 performance.

[Jordan4life_2007]

To be fair to Richard, we really dont have enough of a sample size on him to dismiss.

 

I would say the same to those who solely focus on his postseason success

 

No argument here.

 

 

This was actually jordan4life's post on Oct. 2. I posted it to show just how hypocritical he is slamming people who don't think Marquez will be much help in 2009 for "not giving him a chance."

 

No response to my last post?

 

 

It's ridiculous to dismiss Richard after his 2008 performance.

 

Agreed.

 

[Dick Allen]

No argument here.

 

 

 

 

No response to my last post?

 

 

 

 

Agreed.

How many young starting pitchers has KW acquired who have had an immediate successful impact on the White Sox major league team? Maybe you backed off of your Richard criticism but saying you deserve slack because he was a White Sox draftee and Marquez was not, making it a totally different situation is beyond laughable. I still haven't called Marquez garbage. The biggest slam I've given him is he's more like Lance Broadway than any of the other names mentioned. Of course, that may be considered worse than calling him garbage.

[SoxFan562004]

http://www.baseball-reference.com/v/vazquja01.shtml

 

Javy is always destroyed on this board but I've always said he is a great luxury for a high payroll team, like the Sox are. At worst he'll be average or slightly below and at best he can be a good pitcher, but he will make 30+ starts and pitch over 200 innings, which is extremely nice to pencil in for any MLB team. I would have been perfectly fine if KW brought him back and he was the 4th or 5th starter.

 

Last year it worked out that he had to start some crucial games for the Sox, but at that point he was their 4th best starter. Unfortunately the Sox stretched the other 3 when they could but Javy still had to start big games. I think most teams wouldn't have been thrilled to run their 4th best starter out in those games.

 

Also I still stand by my opinion of Swisher that he's a solid player. His previous two years were good, espicially in OBP, a place where the Sox may come up short in this year. Is there any defending his 2008 season? Well he wasn't very good, that's for sure, but at his age I will chalk it up to playing out of position and being moved around the batting order. What he is owed on his contract isn't that bad, again, considering the Sox have a big payroll and espicially now that he's on the NYY. IMO he's a perfect fit for the NYY. He's a legitimate 1st baseman who will get on base for them and hit for a little pop, espicially since he's a switch hitter and will hit lefty a lot with a short porch.

 

I imagine some will make the argument that he doesn't hit for enough power for a "traditional 1st basemen," but when you have a good lineup like the Yankees it's madeup for at other spots, so you can absorb not having a "traditional 1st basemen" as long as he makes up for it other areas.

 

Also, i'm in the camp of who care is he strikes out a ton? An out is an out. Swisher has a history of getting on base a lot too. Obviously if you make a batted out there's a chance of an error or in certain situations moving a guy long etc., but mostly an out is an out and it doesn't impress me if an out is a strike out or a lazy pop to center. I can pull out the BABIP stat and show that Swisher could of easily had a better year last year, but I think it's been established on this board that some people like stats and some people hate them, so it's kind of pointless brining them out, espicially for Swisher.

 

The great thing is though we all get to see. They'll play the 2009 season and it will all play out. Some of us will be right, some of us will be wrong. That's the fun of this board. There's a lot of great posters on this board who I disagree with and I've only blocked one user in my years here, and that's not because we disagree, it's because he or she is an asshole.

Edited December 21, 2008 by SoxFan562004

[striker]

The more I look at Jeff Marquez's writeups and numbers, the more I like him. It's not just the latest young arm Kenny has acquired after giving us Danks and Floyd. [Though the sox do seem to target and follow certain pitchers and see if they can acquire them. Like the sox had been targeting Booby Parnell and Kunz from the Mets, in trade talks.] It's the way he seems to fit into the sox rotation. He'd give the sox a different look from the current 1-3, esp. with his sinker and changeup from the RH side.

• Classic sinker ball pitcher, though w/ above avg. velocity and plus movement;

• Power change up

• Yanks expected him in ’07 to pitch in the bigs;

http://mariners.scout.com/a.z?s=318&p=2&c=347065

 

• Comparison to Chien-Ming Wang; but should get higher K rate

http://thenewyorkyankeesbaseball.blogspot....ey-marquez.html

 

Add in this nugget from the Trib. when the trade went down: "Sox scouts William Young and Gary Pellant scouted Marquez, 24, for the last two years". These are the same guys who gave us Danks. At the time, that was controversial, giving up a pretty solid #3 SP in BMac for a guy a year or two away from the bigs. [Of course, they also like Masset. But the key was Danks]. Kenny made the deal based on their work. I haven't seen who were the scouts who gave us Floyd.

 

Marquez was on target in 2008 to throw in AAA a mid 3's ERA with solid k and BB rates after having success in each level prior last year. The only blip was last year, when he had a shoulder strain. With the Yanks, you can't experience failure. As the sox had scouted Marquez previously, when he was available, they landed him. Make no mistake, Marquez was the key to the Swisher deal. Betemit is a UTL guy and Nunez is a wildcard. It lands on Marquez to make the Swisher for Gio, DLS and Sweeney a wash.

 

So, I'm looking at Marquez to at least give the sox in 2009 what Vazquez did in 2008--ERA wise. Marquez won't go 200+ innings, as the sox will make sure he's pulled early from games. I'd expect 170-180 innings, with a 4.50 ERA.

 

For 2010 and beyond, I could see Marquez being a sub 4.00 ERA pitcher.

 

Projections, thoughts?

I like your optimism but when you ask fans for their opinions 90% of the time it's going to be pessimistic.

 

I think Marquez seems to have good tools for success. Whether that happens in 2009 or 2010 I'll reserve judgement for spring training. Remember that Floyd had good tools but spent a full year in AAA with the White Sox before he contributed at the major league level. Of course Danks impressed right away and made the jump to the major league level.

 

I think the tools are there, the opportunity is there, now it's up to Marquez to take advantage.

[bmags]

How many young starting pitchers has KW acquired who have had an immediate successful impact on the White Sox major league team? Maybe you backed off of your Richard criticism but saying you deserve slack because he was a White Sox draftee and Marquez was not, making it a totally different situation is beyond laughable. I still haven't called Marquez garbage. The biggest slam I've given him is he's more like Lance Broadway than any of the other names mentioned. Of course, that may be considered worse than calling him garbage.

 

I think what is more laughable is your false interpretations of others statements and then ridiculing the argument you made up as laughable.

[Dick Allen]

I think what is more laughable is your false interpretations of others statements and then ridiculing the argument you made up as laughable.

What did I falsely interpret? I copy and pasted his post from Oct. 2.

[bmags]

He was suggesting that people are throwing Marquez under the bus because they are less familiar with them than if he were a sox prospect.He wasn't saying he deserved slack because Richard was a White Sox draftee.

[Dick Allen]

He was suggesting that people are throwing Marquez under the bus because they are less familiar with them than if he were a sox prospect.He wasn't saying he deserved slack because Richard was a White Sox draftee.

Here's his quote:

 

And even if I hadn't realized I was off base regarding Richard, he's a totally different situation from Marquez anyway. Clayton is a White Sox draftee. And we've had little to no success in developing our OWN pitchers. So at least I would have a somewhat decent arguement in my initial reaction, even if I hadn't changed my mind.

 

 

[scenario]

With all the talk about going young... possibly having two young guys in the rotation... debating their pros and cons... etc...

 

I still think the odds are pretty high that we acquire/sign a veteran back of the rotation type before the season starts to fill one of the two openings.

 

But it wouldn't surprise me at all if we went into spring training with the guys we've got... to see how the young guys handle the pressure of competing for spots. There was an interesting article on mlb.com the other day quoting Danks saying how much that helped him and prepared him for the rigors of the regular season. Here's a quote...

 

"Without a doubt, it helped me," said Danks of his 2007 spring pitch-off with Floyd. "It didn't just help me going into the season, but it kind of made me pitch at the big league level 1 1/2 months before I had to do it. Granted, we weren't very good in 2007, but I felt more pressure in Spring Training than I did all season. Those two months during Spring Training really helped me progress as a pitcher."

 

I could see that same thinking being part of KW's plan... put the young guys on the spot to see what they've got, and use this opportunity to accelerate their development. If they step up... great. And if not, then do what's necessary to secure the back end of the rotation.

Edited December 21, 2008 by scenario

[Whitewashed in '05]

With all the talk about going young... possibly having two young guys in the rotation... debating their pros and cons... etc...

 

I still think the odds are pretty high that we acquire/sign a veteran back of the rotation type before the season starts to fill one of the two openings.

 

But it wouldn't surprise me at all if we went into spring training with the guys we've got... to see how the young guys handle the pressure of competing for spots. There was an interesting article on mlb.com the other day quoting Danks saying how much that helped him and prepared him for the rigors of the regular season.

 

I could see that same thinking being part of KW's plan... put the young guys on the spot to see what they've got. If they step up... great. And if not, then do what's necessary to secure the back end of the rotation.

The only problem with doing that is not many teams, if any, are willing to deal during spring training.

[bmags]

Here's his quote:

 

And even if I hadn't realized I was off base regarding Richard, he's a totally different situation from Marquez anyway. Clayton is a White Sox draftee. And we've had little to no success in developing our OWN pitchers. So at least I would have a somewhat decent arguement in my initial reaction, even if I hadn't changed my mind.

 

well, whatever. You still need to tone down your posts. I wish yours were laughable, but they are more annoying and grating.