Rangers may go to a 4 man rotation

[southsider2k5]

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=nola...n&type=lgns

 

Nolan Ryan wants Rangers’ pitching to take a step back, in a good way

 

By Gerry Fraley - SportingNews 2 hours, 56 minutes ago

 

Nolan Ryan could make a major mark on the game for the second time.

 

As a pitcher, Ryan had a 27-year Hall of Fame career that included the most no-hitters (seven) and strikeouts (5,714) in history.

 

As a team president, Ryan wants to change the way pitchers are handled. If Ryan and the Texas Rangers are successful, the game will change.

 

In his first year on the job as Texas’ president, Ryan has been struck by the limited expectations for pitchers. Six innings are fine. Throw no more than 100 pitches. Start every fifth game.

 

Ryan watched it first-hand this season. Texas had six complete games. That is as many complete games as Ryan had with the Rangers in 1989, at age 42.

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It is enough to make Ryan decide to swim against the tide.

 

Ryan cannot undo past pitching mistakes by the Rangers, who gave away righthanders Justin Duchscherer of Oakland, Chris Young of San Diego, Armando Galarraga of Detroit and lefthander John Danks of the Chicago White Sox for the equivalent of a bag of batting-practice baseballs. They also had Cincinnati righthander Edinson Volquez, but did get All-Star center fielder Josh Hamilton from the Reds for him.

 

Ryan can make a difference in the future. Texas pitchers are about to step into the way-back machine, at his urging.

 

Ryan wants more complete games. He had 222 complete games in 773 career starts. There were 136 complete games, 10 by lefthander CC Sabathia, in the majors this season.

 

Ryan also dislikes the endless procession of relievers, which often leads to a team losing a game with its 12th-best pitcher on the mound. He prefers relievers who pitch to more than one hitter or more than one inning.

 

It all starts with stronger pitchers.

 

“To me, it’s a matter of physical conditioning, and then you get into the area of mental toughness,” Ryan said. “That’s what we’re trying to address now.”

 

Ryan wants Texas pitchers to learn the difference between being sore and being hurt.

 

Ryan suggested pitchers are too willing now to stop when they feel the tiniest of twinges. An examination invariably shows something wrong, because pitching is an unnatural act for the shoulder.

 

“Pitchers feel pain sometimes and think they’re hurt,” Ryan said. “A lot of times, they’re not. They have to learn to pitch through it.”

 

Texas pitchers have already had one conditioning camp, in which they learned that running will be a way of life. That’s running as in sprints, not leisurely jogs.

 

The workload will increase in spring training. If the plans hold, the Rangers could return to the four-man rotation, which has been out of favor for more than 30 years.

 

Some teams, such as Colorado in 2004, have tried a four-man rotation only to go back to the five-man arrangement. Kansas City, in 1995, is the last team to have used a four-man rotation for an extended period.

 

Ryan believes a pitcher’s command improves when he starts every fourth game. Given Ryan’s longevity and success (324 wins), who’s to argue?

 

Ryan also applies logic. It makes more sense for a team to use its best starters more often than its No. 5 starter.

 

To do this, pitchers must be conditioned to think about going the distance.

 

Ryan believes pitch counts have taken on an inordinate importance in the decision-making process, with managers automatically going to the bullpen as the starter approaches 100 pitches.

 

The 100-pitch mark has also become a mental barrier. As the starter approaches it, he knows the end is near.

 

Ryan wants the number dropped from consideration. It is up to the manager and the pitching coach, Ryan said, to judge how the starter is pitching. A 130-pitch game can be easier, Ryan said, than a 100-pitch outing. Each start is different.

 

“I used to go out there and everything would come together, and I’d keep feeling good when I’d get to the 130th pitch,” Ryan said. “Other nights, it would be more of a struggle.”

 

Ryan and the Rangers have nothing to lose.

 

Texas has had a team ERA of more than 5.00 in five of the past nine seasons. In that span, the Rangers ranked higher than ninth in the American League for ERA once, finishing fifth at 4.53 in 2004.

 

It cannot get any worse for Texas. The status quo is not working, so it may be time to go old school with the pitching.

 

Gerry Fraley, a free-lance baseball writer based in St. Louis, is a regular contributor to Sporting News

[Steve9347]

Hey, it's a reason to pay attention to the Rangers...

[The Critic]

Their fireworks nights will be arms blowing out.

[Kyyle23]

Their fireworks nights will be arms blowing out.

 

Yep, should be sometime in mid to late august, when the heat induces the fatigue that gets them so bad

[Balta1701]

For a team in Texas that's just silly.

[southsider2k5]

This is the major league equivilant to the "When I was your age" speech from your grandpa. I keep waiting for someone to tell Nolan Ryan that it isn't the 70's anymore.

[G&T]

The problem is that Ryan was a freak of nature and now he expects everyone to be able to do what he could do. That's a recipe for disaster.

[Reddy]

but why CANT pitchers go more than 100 pitches these days?

 

i'm somewhat inclined to stand on the Ryan side of this argument, though i think the best situation would be a middle ground.

[Hatchetman]

maybe pitchers knew they were going to go 8-9 innings no matter what, so they paced themselves. now they just go ballz to the wallz all on every pitch. (probably b/c half the hitters have been juiced for the last 15 years. )

[Flash Tizzle]

It's an interesting idea. If the Rangers pitchers are behind it then why not? Either they'll have a mediocre five man rotation......or a mediocre four man rotation. And think of the financial incentive for the pitcher who goes over 300IP with even halfway decent peripherals.

 

If Texas has success (which for them is limiting the injuries of starters, not finishing with 100+ losses) it could really start a push towards going back to the four man rotation. You just need one guinea pig team to show progress before others take the plunge. Thereafter, if teams begin adopting the four-man, then every level below (minors, college, high school) will change their philosophies towards pitching; which is ultimately where the idea of a fourman rotation should begin, but you can't expect them to change unless the MLB does first.

[GoodAsGould]

Yeah I honestly think if pitchers are groomed to go deeper into games and in a 4 man rotation they will be alright, in the past wasnt there 2 man rotations and we know in other countries stuf like that happens for example I remember Contreras stories pitching back to back. Also it seems back in his better days Livan Hernandez pitched most complete games and whatnot, is that not because of he was trained with a higher workload in Cuba?

[DBAHO]

It's not a bad idea for their younger pitchers possibly.

 

Make the most of them before their arms blow out, and they'll avoid having to shell out the big $$$$ come FA.

[DaTank]

Whatever it takes, I'd like to see the Rangers' pitching staff step it up next year. I they'll have one of the better infields in all of baseball with Blalock at 3B, Young at SS, Kinsler at 2B, Davis at 1B, and Salty/Teagarden behind the plate. I'd love to see them win the division over the free-spending Halo's.

[knightni]

This is the major league equivilant to the "When I was your age" speech from your grandpa. I keep waiting for someone to tell Nolan Ryan that it isn't the 70's anymore.

 

"Get off my lawn!"

[Balta1701]

So would McCarthy be projected as one of those 4?

[witesoxfan]

The problem is that Ryan was a freak of nature and now he expects everyone to be able to do what he could do. That's a recipe for disaster.

 

so I take it there were just a ton of freaks in the 60s and 70s too, eh?

[RockRaines]

So would McCarthy be projected as one of those 4?

Only if they reattach his arm.

[EvilMonkey]

I like this part from him:

Ryan also dislikes the endless procession of relievers, which often leads to a team losing a game with its 12th-best pitcher on the mound. He prefers relievers who pitch to more than one hitter or more than one inning.

Take note, ozzie, most baseball fans feel this way!

[Balta1701]

Take note, ozzie, most baseball fans feel this way!

There is nothing wrong with having a righty/lefty specialist and using them to retire a key righty or lefty.

[ptatc]

so I take it there were just a ton of freaks in the 60s and 70s too, eh?

 

The problem is that with expansion since that time, pitching has been diluted. There are many pitchers now who, if tried to pitch more often would have blown their arm out in the minors and never made it to the majors. That is why pitchers in the majors cannot do this.

 

There are pitchers capable of throwing on a 4 man rotation. They are capable of throwing 150 pitches a game. The problems are that there aren't enough pitchers who can throw often enough for a four man rotation and if the pitchers haven't conditioned their arms to throw the 150 pitches regularly it will catch up to them. And because pitchers are paid so much no team has their better pitchers condition properly to throw that many pitches for fear of losing the investment.

 

I personally have never been afan of the House/Ryan philosophy of mechanics and the art of pitching. I think if Ryan gets too involved it will be a detriment to the pitchers on the team.

 

[ptatc]

I like this part from him:

 

Take note, ozzie, most baseball fans feel this way!

 

 

I for one disagree. There aren't enough quality starters to go real deep into games during the long season. You need to use the bottom of the bullpen guys to get to the post season with a relatively fresh and healthy staff. Once the short series begins, these guys should be sent away.

[The Critic]

I heard an interesting theory on this on the Boers & Bernstein show. I can't remember if it was Bernstein or a guest who mentioned that these days pitchers use a lot less of their lower bodies and legs in their deliveries than they used to back in the 60s and 70s.

This makes their deliveries more arm-based, and might be why pitchers tire sooner and have to leave games.

It was stated that they believed this could also be a factor in the increase in arm injuries over the years.

I don't know if that's the case or not, but it was an interesting discussion anyway.

[ptatc]

I heard an interesting theory on this on the Boers & Bernstein show. I can't remember if it was Bernstein or a guest who mentioned that these days pitchers use a lot less of their lower bodies and legs in their deliveries than they used to back in the 60s and 70s.

This makes their deliveries more arm-based, and might be why pitchers tire sooner and have to leave games.

It was stated that they believed this could also be a factor in the increase in arm injuries over the years.

I don't know if that's the case or not, but it was an interesting discussion anyway.

 

There are a few philosophies that espouse this but most don't and shouldn't.

 

What this person was probably was referring to was the Drop and Drive technique that was the most common back in that time.

 

Most biomechanical models show the extra stress this puts on the shoulder and elbow and it has fallen out of favor.

However the newer models do not de-emphasize the lower body. They just incorporate it differently.

 

i would bet this person said this due to a the straying away from the Drop and Drive and not so much of looking at the newer ideas because you need to use the lower extremities to protect the arm.

 

[The Critic]

There are a few philosophies that espouse this but most don't and shouldn't.

 

What this person was probably was referring to was the Drop and Drive technique that was the most common back in that time.

 

Most biomechanical models show the extra stress this puts on the shoulder and elbow and it has fallen out of favor.

However the newer models do not de-emphasize the lower body. They just incorporate it differently.

 

i would bet this person said this due to a the straying away from the Drop and Drive and not so much of looking at the newer ideas because you need to use the lower extremities to protect the arm.

They were talking more about the higher leg kicks and more deliberate pitching motions, the thought being that these motions put less strain on the arm.

A sort of connected theory is that today's shorter and quicker releases are based on greater concern with baserunners, but I thought that was silly because you go to a stretch with runners on base anyway.

Again, I wouldn't know if this causes or prevents arm injuries, but I enjoyed the conversation.

[Middle Buffalo]

There are a few philosophies that espouse this but most don't and shouldn't.

 

What this person was probably was referring to was the Drop and Drive technique that was the most common back in that time.

 

Most biomechanical models show the extra stress this puts on the shoulder and elbow and it has fallen out of favor.

However the newer models do not de-emphasize the lower body. They just incorporate it differently.

 

i would bet this person said this due to a the straying away from the Drop and Drive and not so much of looking at the newer ideas because you need to use the lower extremities to protect the arm.

Ex-Dodger Mike Marshall has a web-site where he discusses the biomechanical problems of the pitching delivery. He has a theory that pitchers should change their delivery to reduce stress on the arm. It's pretty interesting. http://www.drmikemarshall.com/BaseballPitc...ionalVideo.html

 

I don't think the 4-man rotation would work for an entire season because of the way pitchers are handled, but I do think there are points in the season where the fifth starter (or anyone who's struggling) could be skipped becasue of rainouts or some kind of scheduling quirk that would allow the 4 top guys to pitch on normal rest. You could probably get 3 or 4 more starts out of your top 4 guys and reduce the work load of the fifth starter just by periodically going to the 4-man rotation.