chw42 Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Jun 22, 2009 -> 05:35 PM) Same thing they said about Bonds. Funny how this is playing out, ha. Barry Bonds was one of the best players in baseball before he went on the juice... His stats as a hitter were comparable to Griffey, if not better. Edited June 22, 2009 by chw42 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBlackSox8 Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 (edited) There cannot be another legit "Ted Williams" "Ty Cobb" "Mickey Mantle" "Rogers Horsnby" type player today without there being some speculation of Steroid/HGH use. Unfortunately for the MLB fan it's sad but true. The modern age of baseball has most of it's "Legend" players implicated with PED's, whether they're guilty or not. Clemens, Bonds, Sosa, A-rod, McGwire, etc... Hopefully Thomas and Griffey can stay away from serious speculation. Edited June 22, 2009 by onedude Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 It's a shame really cause there's alot of guys that played the game right. I would vote Bonds into the hall of fame. Take away his numbers from 1999-now (when he started using them) and he's still in the hall of fame. I love Bonds though in my eyes, Hank Aaron is still the true homerun champion as in Roger Maris' 61. I also don't like how posters here ignore other posters sigs on quotes, sites, saying with players/coaches, etc. You can learn alot from what very smart posters here post that can come a long way. I wanna thank hammerhead and another poster who I cant remember who posted Ted Williams' sayings, other coaches/players quotes about Frank, etc.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 Pujols (first eight years): .334/.425/.624, 319 homers, 977 RBIs, 947 runs, 2 MVPs, 170 OPS+ Frank (first eight years): .330/.452/.600, 257 homers, 854 RBIs, 785 runs, 2 MVPs, 182 OPS+ Pujols (first eight years): .334, 45 doubles, 2 triples, 42 homers, 128 RBIs, 124 runs, 91 walks, 170 OPS+ Frank (first eight years): .330, 37 doubles, 1 triple, 39 homers, 129 RBIs, 118 runs, 132 walks, 182 OPS+ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 QUOTE (SoxAce @ Jun 22, 2009 -> 04:01 PM) It's a shame really cause there's alot of guys that played the game right. I would vote Bonds into the hall of fame. Take away his numbers from 1999-now (when he started using them) and he's still in the hall of fame. I love Bonds though in my eyes, Hank Aaron is still the true homerun champion as in Roger Maris' 61. I also don't like how posters here ignore other posters sigs on quotes, sites, saying with players/coaches, etc. You can learn alot from what very smart posters here post that can come a long way. I wanna thank hammerhead and another poster who I cant remember who posted Ted Williams' sayings, other coaches/players quotes about Frank, etc.. For the 3 months between ARod's steroid admission and Selena Roberts's book, people were thinking exactly the same thing about ARod; oh he was just using for those 3 years. Not everyone, but a good number. Then she came out with a book saying he was juicing in high school. I still have no conclusive reason to believe that Bonds just started juicing in 1999, rather than switching which steroid he was on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 For the 3 months between ARod's steroid admission and Selena Roberts's book, people were thinking exactly the same thing about ARod; oh he was just using for those 3 years. Not everyone, but a good number. Then she came out with a book saying he was juicing in high school. Wouldn't doubt it at all, though A-Rod was pretty skinny in high school and for a good couple years with the Mariners until he looked bigger. My personal opinion, Selena overexagerated the high school claim about him. I mean he would have to be horrendously stupid to have that kind of talent and want an edge, especially during the 90s. I'm sure it was during the 98-00 homerun years that gave A-Rod that motivation to outdo everyone else to become the homerun king. He was already a very good up and comming player. But I guess the homeruns make the bank for him, or he wanted to live off that huge contract he got. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearSox Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 QUOTE (knightni @ Jun 22, 2009 -> 05:16 PM) http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/1...e_greatest.html Obviously, considering Hornsby hit over .400 a couple of times, and even had a season with over 40 homers and a BA over .400. I think his other similar season he had a BA over .400 but only 39 homers. I doubt we'll ever see anyone with numbers like that again in a season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearSox Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 QUOTE (SoxAce @ Jun 22, 2009 -> 05:56 PM) My boy hammerhead johnson had it in his sig, and the site he said it for a long time here. Posted some of what I found here. It's scary to think how good Thomas used to be. However, injuries and becoming pull happy really effected the 2nd half of his career. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 QUOTE (SoxAce @ Jun 22, 2009 -> 05:28 PM) Wouldn't doubt it at all, though A-Rod was pretty skinny in high school and for a good couple years with the Mariners until he looked bigger. My personal opinion, Selena overexagerated the high school claim about him. I mean he would have to be horrendously stupid to have that kind of talent and want an edge, especially during the 90s. I'm sure it was during the 98-00 homerun years that gave A-Rod that motivation to outdo everyone else to become the homerun king. He was already a very good up and comming player. But I guess the homeruns make the bank for him, or he wanted to live off that huge contract he got. The point is...it's entirely plausible that the reason you say "have all that kind of talent" is that he was already on something beforehand to help him have that talent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearSox Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 22, 2009 -> 06:12 PM) For the 3 months between ARod's steroid admission and Selena Roberts's book, people were thinking exactly the same thing about ARod; oh he was just using for those 3 years. Not everyone, but a good number. Then she came out with a book saying he was juicing in high school. I still have no conclusive reason to believe that Bonds just started juicing in 1999, rather than switching which steroid he was on. Yeah, I'd say around 1999 he probably increased the dosage or went to a stronger type.... not that he just started. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearSox Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Jun 22, 2009 -> 12:49 PM) In regards to Williams, I only counted his first 9 seasons, not 9 years. I know he was in the war. And the bolded part...just look at the guy. If he starts to get flabby like Thome, Thomas, or Griffey as he ages, I might take back my statement. But hell, by that time, someone will have already tied him to steroids anyway. So you are saying that if he doesn't stay fit into his late 30's, he's a steroid guy? From everything I've heard and read, Pujols is a guy who has a work ethic second to none and works extremely hard to be in great shape every year. And I think someone said something about him getting bigger since his minor league days, well duh. He was 20 in the minors and still likely wasn't done growing. Also, considering he was just getting on an MLB conditioning and strength program, I'd say he was just scratching the surface of his physical ability by the time he got up the pros. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 Yankees lose Xavier Nady for the season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 Cashman got quite lucky to get Swisher this offseason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 QUOTE (BearSox @ Jun 22, 2009 -> 07:58 PM) So you are saying that if he doesn't stay fit into his late 30's, he's a steroid guy? From everything I've heard and read, Pujols is a guy who has a work ethic second to none and works extremely hard to be in great shape every year. And I think someone said something about him getting bigger since his minor league days, well duh. He was 20 in the minors and still likely wasn't done growing. Also, considering he was just getting on an MLB conditioning and strength program, I'd say he was just scratching the surface of his physical ability by the time he got up the pros. Sorry, I meant to respond to this days ago but the site went down. I'm saying just the opposite. If he stays toned and fit, like the obvious users of the recent past, then I'll be entirely sold. But as I said, it doesn't matter. He'll be linked to steroids within a few years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 QUOTE (chw42 @ Jun 22, 2009 -> 01:15 PM) Steroids do not give him a better batting eye. Steroids do not give him better place discipline. Steroids do not make his swing perfect and virtually hole-less You explain the success of Sammy Sosa (1998-2003) and Barry Bonds (2001-2004) and why their walk totals are so high. One theory is that steroids do not improve your eye but rather that the power from your bat does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearSox Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 Can he still swing a bat? If so, it would make sense to see him back in September in a pinch hitter only type of role. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G&T Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 Brewers prospect faces long suspension Agent reports Jeffress will check into rehab program MILWAUKEE -- Former Brewers first-round Draft pick Jeremy Jeffress has tested positive for a banned substance for the second time and faces a 100-game suspension under Minor League Baseball's Joint Drug Treatment and Prevention Program. Jeffress' agent, Joshua Kusnick, cound not name the substance for which Jeffress tested positive, but said it was not a performance-enhancing drug. Jeffress was suspended 50 games in 2007 for "a drug of abuse" and later admitted to marajuana use. Major League Baseball could announce Jeffress' latest suspension as early as Monday. "Jeremy is extremely remorseful for what happened and will be voluntarily checking himself into a rehab facility to deal with his problem," Kusnick said. "Jeremy is sick and needs help. We are here to support him in getting his life back. Right now, the most important thing is to help him get his life back, and baseball will take care of itself. "He is sorry for letting everyone down who believes in him." Under the Minor League Drug Treatment and Protection program, players who test positive a third time face a lifetime ban. Jeffress was the Brewers' 18th overall pick in the 2006 First-Year Player Draft and is ranked as the organization's fourth-best prospect, according to Baseball America. He began the season with Double-A Huntsville, struggling with a record of 1-3 and 7.57 ERA, before being demoted to high Class A Brevard County last month. In five starts in Brevard County, he went 2-1 with a 2.18 ERA. Linky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 Ok, I no longer want to trade Contreras for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 When do we start thinking about Pujols taking a shot at 62? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearSox Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 Maybe we could get him extremely cheap in the offseason. I got no problem taking chances on guys with an arm like his. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santo=dorf Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 I thought Marijuana wasn't a bannable offense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 QUOTE (BearSox @ Jun 22, 2009 -> 07:58 PM) So you are saying that if he doesn't stay fit into his late 30's, he's a steroid guy? From everything I've heard and read, Pujols is a guy who has a work ethic second to none and works extremely hard to be in great shape every year. And I think someone said something about him getting bigger since his minor league days, well duh. He was 20 in the minors and still likely wasn't done growing. Also, considering he was just getting on an MLB conditioning and strength program, I'd say he was just scratching the surface of his physical ability by the time he got up the pros. All the same things said in defense of Sosa, Arod, McGwire, etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 27, 2009 -> 02:59 PM) Ok, I no longer want to trade Contreras for him. I would. Talent isn't the problem. QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 27, 2009 -> 03:05 PM) When do we start thinking about Pujols taking a shot at 62? If only it were that simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jun 27, 2009 -> 02:18 PM) You explain the success of Sammy Sosa (1998-2003) and Barry Bonds (2001-2004) and why their walk totals are so high. One theory is that steroids do not improve your eye but rather that the power from your bat does. Their walk totals were high because pitches pitched around them due to their power that could have been gained from use of steroids. Just because they walked a lot doesn't exactly mean they had a good eye. And Sosa was never known to be a great hitter in terms of discipline. Barry was a great hitter before he went on anything. He was a hall of famer before he decided to screw himself over. Sosa isn't the same. Edited June 28, 2009 by chw42 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 Man, how good has Tommy Hanson been? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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