Heads22 Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 On Baseball Tonight, they're trying to say that Derek Jeter isn't a bad defensive shortstop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearSox Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (Heads22 @ Jul 18, 2009 -> 09:13 PM) On Baseball Tonight, they're trying to say that Derek Jeter isn't a bad defensive shortstop. I wouldn't say he is bad. He's certainly no GG'er out there and is over hyped by the media, but he makes most of the routine plays with a few great players here and there, is very smart out there, and acts like the leader of the INF the SS needs to be. Plus, his bat certainly makes up for what you lose in D. You can do a whole lot worse at SS than Derek Jeter. If Gordon Beckham can play SS as good as Jeter, I'd be f***ing ecstatic. Edited July 19, 2009 by BearSox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 QUOTE (Heads22 @ Jul 18, 2009 -> 09:13 PM) On Baseball Tonight, they're trying to say that Derek Jeter isn't a bad defensive shortstop. He's been decent this year, surprisingly. But historically, no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 QUOTE (BearSox @ Jul 18, 2009 -> 09:25 PM) I wouldn't say he is bad. He's certainly no GG'er out there and is over hyped by the media, but he makes most of the routine plays with a few great players here and there, is very smart out there, and acts like the leader of the INF the SS needs to be. Plus, his bat certainly makes up for what you lose in D. You can do a whole lot worse at SS than Derek Jeter. If Gordon Beckham can play SS as good as Jeter, I'd be f***ing ecstatic. I'm pretty sure Gordon's already better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearSox Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 QUOTE (chw42 @ Jul 18, 2009 -> 09:26 PM) I'm pretty sure Gordon's already better. Considering he's never played a single pitch at SS in his Major League career, that's a pretty big stretch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (BearSox @ Jul 18, 2009 -> 09:28 PM) Considering he's never played a single pitch at SS in his Major League career, that's a pretty big stretch. You don't have to be very good to be better than Derek Jeter. If you take a look at his UZR numbers and his Plus/Minus numbers from the past, it would scare you. Here's a glimpse into how bad he has been... In the past three seasons, Derek Jeter is a -68 at SS in terms of Plus/Minus. Nobody has been worse. The next closest is Hanley Ramirez at -40. Jeter has a career UZR of -39.3 and that's only been over 8 seasons since they started recording the stat. His UZR/150 is -5.7. That means he's going to give up at least 6 runs a year due to his defense. Of course, he does make up for it on offense. This has been the only year in which his UZR is actually above 0, but I don't know how much longer that will last. Edited July 19, 2009 by chw42 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearSox Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 QUOTE (chw42 @ Jul 18, 2009 -> 09:36 PM) You don't have to be very good to be better than Derek Jeter. If you take a look at his UZR numbers and his Plus/Minus numbers from the past, it would scare you. Here's a glimpse into how bad he has been... In the past three seasons, Derek Jeter is a -68 at SS in terms of Plus/Minus. Nobody has been worse. The next closest is Hanley Ramirez at -40. Jeter has a career UZR of -39.3 and that's only been over 8 seasons since they started recording the stat. His UZR/150 is -5.7. That means he's going to give up at least 6 runs a year due to his defense. Of course, he does make up for it on offense. This has been the only year in which his UZR is actually above 0, but I don't know how much longer that will last. I understand he is lacking in regards of range compared to most of the other SS. But range is only one facet of defense. He hardly misplays a ball he can get to. Last year, according to "The Fielding Bible", Jeter only misplayed 17 balls he got to (not counting Errors), which was best among everyday SS's in the MLB. And if you added Errors, he's still the best of all MLB short stops. He'll have to move to 2B when he really slows down even more, but for the past 10 years or so, I'd say he's been perfectly fine there. Sure, he doesn't have great or range and his arm leaves something to be desired. But he makes all the routine plays, is usually the smartest player on the field, and is the leader of the infield. And like I already stated, he made up for whatever he lacked on D with his bat. He's not a horrible fielder or a butcher out there, but he isn't a GG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderBolt Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 QUOTE (Heads22 @ Jul 18, 2009 -> 10:13 PM) On Baseball Tonight, they're trying to say that Derek Jeter isn't a bad defensive shortstop. It’s okay, NBC just told me that they’d cured cancer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (BearSox @ Jul 18, 2009 -> 09:54 PM) I understand he is lacking in regards of range compared to most of the other SS. But range is only one facet of defense. He hardly misplays a ball he can get to. Last year, according to "The Fielding Bible",Jeter only misplayed 17 balls he got to (not counting Errors), which was best among everyday SS's in the MLB. And if you added Errors, he's still the best of all MLB short stops. He'll have to move to 2B when he really slows down even more, but for the past 10 years or so, I'd say he's been perfectly fine there. Sure, he doesn't have great or range and his arm leaves something to be desired. But he makes all the routine plays, is usually the smartest player on the field, and is the leader of the infield. And like I already stated, he made up for whatever he lacked on D with his bat. He's not a horrible fielder or a butcher out there, but he isn't a GG. There's been countless analysis on Jeter. Basically, Jeter does the things you said he does well. He makes the plays he can get to. Thing is, how many balls did he not get to? That's the thing. It's great that he made the plays on the balls he could get to, but when he can't get to a ball that a fairly average SS can get to, you have yourself a problem. According to Bill James and his Plus/Minus system, Jeter missed 93 routine plays in 2005. That's a whole lot of plays to be missing when a normal SS would have no problems getting to the ball. Jeter has a lot of good intangibles and he's one of the best offensive SS in our era. But that doesn't excuse him from being a totally below average SS. Edited July 19, 2009 by chw42 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 QUOTE (chw42 @ Jul 19, 2009 -> 03:09 PM) There's been countless analysis on Jeter. Basically, Jeter does the things you said he does well. He makes the plays he can get to. Thing is, how many balls did he not get to? That's the thing. It's great that he made the plays on the balls he could get to, but when he can't get to a ball that a fairly average SS can get to, you have yourself a problem. According to Bill James and his Plus/Minus system, Jeter missed 93 routine plays in 2005. That's a whole lot of plays to be missing when a normal SS would have no problems getting to the ball. Jeter has a lot of good intangibles and he's one of the best offensive SS in our era. But that doesn't excuse him from being a totally below average SS. Im just curious why you picked 2005? How did he do the last 3 years as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jul 19, 2009 -> 03:25 PM) Im just curious why you picked 2005? How did he do the last 3 years as well? Because 2005 is the only year that they released their entire stat sheet for plus/minus to the public for free. You have to pay to see any other year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderBolt Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 Brewers just got Felipe Lopez for Two prospects. Fantastic pickup by the Brew Crew. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Jul 19, 2009 -> 05:19 PM) Brewers just got Felipe Lopez for Two prospects. Fantastic pickup by the Brew Crew. He's been a decent leadoff hitter this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderBolt Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 They still need pitching, not of the Halladay variety, but a guy like Harang would be a decent pickup for them . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Jul 19, 2009 -> 05:37 PM) They still need pitching, not of the Halladay variety, but a guy like Harang would be a decent pickup for them . Gallardo is fine as a #1. But yeah, they need a solid #2. They basically have one #1, 2 #3s at best, and 2 5th starters. I don't know if you can even call Parra a fifth starter. Edited July 19, 2009 by chw42 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearSox Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Jul 19, 2009 -> 05:37 PM) They still need pitching, not of the Halladay variety, but a guy like Harang would be a decent pickup for them . Reds still probably think they are in it, so Harang is a no go. If we get Halladay, I wouldn't mind trading Contreras. He has pitched admirably since he came back from Charlotte, but I still don't trust him for the long run, and I'd rather get something from him now rather than nothing when he is a FA. And his value is still probably high even after a rough outing today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearSox Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Jul 19, 2009 -> 05:19 PM) Brewers just got Felipe Lopez for Two prospects. Fantastic pickup by the Brew Crew. Good trade for the Brew Crew. Cole Gillespie is a decent spect, but Felipe Lopez will really give that Offense a spark at the top of the order. He's had a really good year this year and has been a good hitter for most of his career. Plus, he has a hot wife: http://www.nationalspride.com/columnists/i...7/02/img002.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderBolt Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 QUOTE (BearSox @ Jul 19, 2009 -> 06:58 PM) Plus, he has a hot wife: http://www.nationalspride.com/columnists/i...7/02/img002.jpg Cherish this moment, Bear Sox. I believe we just agreed on something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearSox Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 Dayton Moore is a failure of a GM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 QUOTE (BearSox @ Jul 19, 2009 -> 06:12 PM) Dayton Moore is a failure of a GM. Did I miss a trade or something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beautox Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 QUOTE (BearSox @ Jul 19, 2009 -> 06:12 PM) Dayton Moore is a failure of a GM. so what your saying is we could get teahen on the cheap? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 MLB's first 12 game winner? Jason Marquis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearSox Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jul 19, 2009 -> 06:29 PM) Did I miss a trade or something? All of his moves so far. JP Howell for Joey Gathright, Mike Jacobs as a starting 1B, etc., etc., etc. He has done nothing in the past 2 years or so to improve that ball club at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 QUOTE (BearSox @ Jul 19, 2009 -> 05:21 PM) All of his moves so far. JP Howell for Joey Gathright, Mike Jacobs as a starting 1B, etc., etc., etc. He has done nothing in the past 2 years or so to improve that ball club at all. How have their drafts been under his reign? For a team like that, that's really all that matters. Can anyone legitimately say that they have talent progressing at the lower levels or reaching AA around now? For a small market team that's the way you have to do it...plug holes where you can, stay competitive, spend a little money to keep people in the seats, make trades to bring people in but don't sacrifice any young talent in them, sign people with an eye towards affordability and trading them before they walk, and draft well enough that you can develop top of the line talent from your own system, because no one is trading away top of the line talent any more (unless they make Greinke available). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beautox Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 Jack Wilson and Freddy Sanchez reject extentions Sanchez's offer consisted of a two-year deal worth about $10 million and would have voided his $8 million option for 2010, which will be guaranteed once he makes 600 plate appearances this season. Wilson's offer was also for two years and worth $8 million. It would take the place of his $8.4 million club option for next season, an option that the Pirates have already confirmed will not be picked up. via MLB Daily Dish from Jenifer Langosch with the twins picking up Mark Grudzielanek, i think the giants might be making some noise, but outside of Angel Villalona and Posey they only have pitching depth in the minors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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