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Gavin Floyd for Brian Roberts discussed


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List of free agent starting pitchers

 

there's still a few of them out there, and a lot of the guys looking to build their value on 1-year deals would find Chicago very attractive with 2 holes in it, let alone 3. I think this would be an absolutely terrible move due to the overwhelming number of 2Bman in the White Sox system (and by overwhelming, I mean 1 player with 3 others that have a chance at starting there) and the lack of cheap, solid starting pitching.

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Kenny's had his eye on Roberts before. I hope he lands him

 

Why are Danks and Floyd mentioned in the same breath as Buehrle in terms of being "solid" or a proven commodity. "Stuff" or draft positions be damned, they've only had 1 good year. I'm not saying they should be moved as they'll be bad, but I still considered then unknowns for next year, especially Gavin considering the Sox's lack of options with him. Someone mentioned Cliff Lee, but the Sox won't have the opportunity to send Gavin to AAA to work on something.

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QUOTE (santo=dorf @ Jan 3, 2009 -> 02:58 AM)
Kenny's had his eye on Roberts before. I hope he lands him

 

Why are Danks and Floyd mentioned in the same breath as Buehrle in terms of being "solid" or a proven commodity. "Stuff" or draft positions be damned, they've only had 1 good year. I'm not saying they should be moved as they'll be bad, but I still considered then unknowns for next year, especially Gavin considering the Sox's lack of options with him. Someone mentioned Cliff Lee, but the Sox won't have the opportunity to send Gavin to AAA to work on something.

Very good point.

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If we took on Mora and Roberts, we'd be adding $17 million to payroll. In a different time and place, maybe that would make sense...if there was a trade in place with Dye/Konerko going somewhere for a starting pitcher to replace Floyd.

 

You'd still be adding payroll, and putting someone like Fields or Viciedo into the outfield in that type of scenario, either in LF or in Viciedo's case, possibly RF.

 

Still, you don't do this trade if it means substituting someone totally unproven at the major league level like Bailey for a more known commodity in Floyd. At least Cooper knows he can get results/progress out of Gavin, the same thing's not guaranteed with another other pitchers we'd bring in.

 

Would there be anything more threatening to our future than being forced to go and acquire pitching during the season to stay in contention, instead of relying on our minor league system? It just seems anti-Kenny, and also like a recipe for disaster to rely on 3 unproven pitchers, let alone 2.

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If we took on Mora and Roberts, we'd be adding $17 million to payroll. In a different time and place, maybe that would make sense...if there was a trade in place with Dye/Konerko going somewhere for a starting pitcher to replace Floyd. If was Santana for Konerko, maybe I could live with that one...but not the Bailey/Dye move, at least if we want to compete in 2009. If we're already surrendering in 09, that's fine, but that's generally not the modus operandi of the KW we all know and sometimes love.

 

You'd still be adding payroll, and putting someone like Fields or Viciedo into the outfield in that type of scenario, either in LF or in Viciedo's case, possibly RF.

 

Still, you don't do this trade if it means substituting someone totally unproven at the major league level like Bailey for a more known commodity in Floyd. At least Cooper knows he can get results/progress out of Gavin, the same thing's not guaranteed with other pitchers we'd bring in.

 

Would there be anything more threatening to our future than being forced to go and acquire pitching during the season to stay in contention, instead of relying on our minor league system? It just seems anti-Kenny, and also like a recipe for disaster to rely on 3 unproven pitchers, let alone 2. Maybe KW has a plan to spend another $5-10 million on a veteran 4/5 type guy, but he keeps saying we're against budget or already at budget, how can we do that without subtracting further? That would mean you'd have to trade Dye/Konerko and THEN you can go out and make that veteran signing theoretically.

 

Not to mention the position Beckham has the most value to the Sox (or any other team) is being a power-hitting middle infielder. You move him to 3B and he's just MLB average probably. Not to mention moving him to 3B moves Fields/Viciedo out of position. I guess if it's for just one year, okay...then you take the draft pick for Roberts. But, then again, one year of Roberts for a young/affordable starting pitcher doesn't make a whole lot of sense. I mean, we could have a combination of Vince Coleman, Ichiro and Grady Sizemore leading off and it wouldn't do us any good with our starting rotation.

Edited by caulfield12
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If the Sox are looking into trading Gavin, or listening intently, it must be like a BMac deal, in that Gavin might not be a great fit in the Cell going forward. Floyd did have a big Fb rate GB/FB= .70 and gave up 30 HR's. If something did go down, I'd expect another solid SP coming back in another deal. I could see both Dye and PK going.

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QUOTE (BearSox @ Jan 2, 2009 -> 10:22 PM)
_Self_ don't mind the idea of _verb_ on _proper noun_, but it honestly only makes sense if we are planning to _verb_ _proper noun_ for a solid _baseball position_, and _GM move_.

 

 

BearSox MadLibs ™

 

 

:D

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Fly balls fall for hits about 21.2% of the time whereas ground balls go for hits about 28.6% of the time. Groundballs go for hits a fairly higher percentage of the time than fly balls. But ground balls don't leave the park and they rarely go for extra base hits. When fly balls fall for hits you're looking at quite a few extra base hits and you'll also see about 11% of those leave the yard.

 

Now the question with Floyd (or groundball pitchers like Webb, Garland or Lowe) is how good will the infield be? Do we want lots of ground balls with Fields at 3B and a possibly shaky DP combination up the middle?

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Fly balls fall for hits about 21.2% of the time whereas ground balls go for hits about 28.6% of the time. Groundballs go for hits a fairly higher percentage of the time than fly balls. But ground balls don't leave the park and they rarely go for extra base hits. When fly balls fall for hits you're looking at quite a few extra base hits and you'll also see about 11% of those leave the yard.

 

Now the question with Floyd (or groundball pitchers like Webb, Garland or Lowe) is how good will the infield be? Do we want lots of ground balls with Fields at 3B and a possibly shaky DP combination up the middle?

When talking about inducing groundballs, Jon Garland has no business being mentioned in the same breath as Webb and Lowe.

 

Career GB/FB:

Lowe: 3.32

Webb: 3.57

Garland: 1.29

 

It's not even close. People really need to stop exaggerating his groundball tendencies and with one of the worst K/9 rates in the MLB, he's putting a lot of flyballs in play anyways.

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QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jan 2, 2009 -> 09:10 PM)
If we took on Mora and Roberts, we'd be adding $17 million to payroll. In a different time and place, maybe that would make sense...if there was a trade in place with Dye/Konerko going somewhere for a starting pitcher to replace Floyd. If was Santana for Konerko, maybe I could live with that one...but not the Bailey/Dye move, at least if we want to compete in 2009. If we're already surrendering in 09, that's fine, but that's generally not the modus operandi of the KW we all know and sometimes love.

 

You'd still be adding payroll, and putting someone like Fields or Viciedo into the outfield in that type of scenario, either in LF or in Viciedo's case, possibly RF.

 

Still, you don't do this trade if it means substituting someone totally unproven at the major league level like Bailey for a more known commodity in Floyd. At least Cooper knows he can get results/progress out of Gavin, the same thing's not guaranteed with other pitchers we'd bring in.

 

Would there be anything more threatening to our future than being forced to go and acquire pitching during the season to stay in contention, instead of relying on our minor league system? It just seems anti-Kenny, and also like a recipe for disaster to rely on 3 unproven pitchers, let alone 2. Maybe KW has a plan to spend another $5-10 million on a veteran 4/5 type guy, but he keeps saying we're against budget or already at budget, how can we do that without subtracting further? That would mean you'd have to trade Dye/Konerko and THEN you can go out and make that veteran signing theoretically.

 

Not to mention the position Beckham has the most value to the Sox (or any other team) is being a power-hitting middle infielder. You move him to 3B and he's just MLB average probably. Not to mention moving him to 3B moves Fields/Viciedo out of position. I guess if it's for just one year, okay...then you take the draft pick for Roberts. But, then again, one year of Roberts for a young/affordable starting pitcher doesn't make a whole lot of sense. I mean, we could have a combination of Vince Coleman, Ichiro and Grady Sizemore leading off and it wouldn't do us any good with our starting rotation.

 

I'm not entirely convinced that Kenny isn't playing possum when it comes to our payroll.

 

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QUOTE (santo=dorf @ Jan 2, 2009 -> 11:06 PM)
When talking about inducing groundballs, Jon Garland has no business being mentioned in the same breath as Webb and Lowe.

 

Career GB/FB:

Lowe: 3.32

Webb: 3.57

Garland: 1.29

 

It's not even close. People really need to stop exaggerating his groundball tendencies and with one of the worst K/9 rates in the MLB, he's putting a lot of flyballs in play anyways.

 

 

That will end as soon as we stop saying all white basketball players are "heady" (like Steve Nash or Troy Skinner, lol) and all black basketball players are athletic/raw/uncoachable/emotional/selfish...the Jon Garland myth will live on forever in time.

 

 

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QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jan 3, 2009 -> 05:12 AM)
That will end as soon as we stop saying all white basketball players are "heady" (like Steve Nash or Troy Skinner, lol) and all black basketball players are athletic/raw/uncoachable/emotional/selfish...the Jon Garland myth will live on forever in time.

and bad/mediocre white baseball players are scrappy/grindy.

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QUOTE (TheBigHurt @ Jan 2, 2009 -> 09:37 PM)
I REALLY want Brian Roberts on this team... BADLY. But the Sox CANNOT trade Gavin, at least not for a non-pitcher.

 

i know it's tough for all to get past the pitcherness of Floyd

 

but dont you trade a non-special player for a special one? Roberts' age comes into play, but he's not that old either. i mean, either someone wants him or they dont..and if yr like that, then it means you never wanted Furcal or Hudson either.

 

 

Roberts still fits in with the core we have... which is Alexei and CQ, guys about to enter the prime years.

 

Pitching would remain the problem that it currently is. Either way we need to acquire SP and count on youngsters steppin up

Edited by Princess Dye
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QUOTE (Princess Dye @ Jan 2, 2009 -> 10:33 PM)
i know it's tough for all to get past the pitcherness of Floyd

but dont you trade a non-special player for a special one? Roberts' age comes into play, but he's not that old either. i mean, either someone wants him or they dont..and if yr like that, then it means you never wanted Furcal or Hudson either.

 

 

Roberts still fits in with the core we have... which is Alexei and CQ, guys about to enter the prime years.

 

Pitching would remain the problem that it currently is. Either way we need to acquire SP and count on youngsters steppin up

 

You don't consider Gavin Floyd to be a special player???

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