witesoxfan Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 List of free agent starting pitchers there's still a few of them out there, and a lot of the guys looking to build their value on 1-year deals would find Chicago very attractive with 2 holes in it, let alone 3. I think this would be an absolutely terrible move due to the overwhelming number of 2Bman in the White Sox system (and by overwhelming, I mean 1 player with 3 others that have a chance at starting there) and the lack of cheap, solid starting pitching. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santo=dorf Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 Kenny's had his eye on Roberts before. I hope he lands him Why are Danks and Floyd mentioned in the same breath as Buehrle in terms of being "solid" or a proven commodity. "Stuff" or draft positions be damned, they've only had 1 good year. I'm not saying they should be moved as they'll be bad, but I still considered then unknowns for next year, especially Gavin considering the Sox's lack of options with him. Someone mentioned Cliff Lee, but the Sox won't have the opportunity to send Gavin to AAA to work on something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitewashed in '05 Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 This is all offseason talk. Stupid offseason talk at that. Not even speculation. If it was a young major league ready starting pitcher and Roberts for Gavin and more then it would sorta makes sense (BMac for Danks). This is just dumb. Obviously this guy doesn't realize the importance of Gavin to this team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 Sure, if he brings Mora with him... The one thing about this rumor is I wonder if Kenny could be thinking about selling high ala Esteban Loiaza? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klaus kinski Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 With the value that our regime puts on pitching, I'm sure they wouldnt part with one of his prize acquisitions that worked out. No idea where this came from but its too Illogical Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 QUOTE (santo=dorf @ Jan 3, 2009 -> 02:58 AM) Kenny's had his eye on Roberts before. I hope he lands him Why are Danks and Floyd mentioned in the same breath as Buehrle in terms of being "solid" or a proven commodity. "Stuff" or draft positions be damned, they've only had 1 good year. I'm not saying they should be moved as they'll be bad, but I still considered then unknowns for next year, especially Gavin considering the Sox's lack of options with him. Someone mentioned Cliff Lee, but the Sox won't have the opportunity to send Gavin to AAA to work on something. Very good point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 If we took on Mora and Roberts, we'd be adding $17 million to payroll. In a different time and place, maybe that would make sense...if there was a trade in place with Dye/Konerko going somewhere for a starting pitcher to replace Floyd. You'd still be adding payroll, and putting someone like Fields or Viciedo into the outfield in that type of scenario, either in LF or in Viciedo's case, possibly RF. Still, you don't do this trade if it means substituting someone totally unproven at the major league level like Bailey for a more known commodity in Floyd. At least Cooper knows he can get results/progress out of Gavin, the same thing's not guaranteed with another other pitchers we'd bring in. Would there be anything more threatening to our future than being forced to go and acquire pitching during the season to stay in contention, instead of relying on our minor league system? It just seems anti-Kenny, and also like a recipe for disaster to rely on 3 unproven pitchers, let alone 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 (edited) If we took on Mora and Roberts, we'd be adding $17 million to payroll. In a different time and place, maybe that would make sense...if there was a trade in place with Dye/Konerko going somewhere for a starting pitcher to replace Floyd. If was Santana for Konerko, maybe I could live with that one...but not the Bailey/Dye move, at least if we want to compete in 2009. If we're already surrendering in 09, that's fine, but that's generally not the modus operandi of the KW we all know and sometimes love. You'd still be adding payroll, and putting someone like Fields or Viciedo into the outfield in that type of scenario, either in LF or in Viciedo's case, possibly RF. Still, you don't do this trade if it means substituting someone totally unproven at the major league level like Bailey for a more known commodity in Floyd. At least Cooper knows he can get results/progress out of Gavin, the same thing's not guaranteed with other pitchers we'd bring in. Would there be anything more threatening to our future than being forced to go and acquire pitching during the season to stay in contention, instead of relying on our minor league system? It just seems anti-Kenny, and also like a recipe for disaster to rely on 3 unproven pitchers, let alone 2. Maybe KW has a plan to spend another $5-10 million on a veteran 4/5 type guy, but he keeps saying we're against budget or already at budget, how can we do that without subtracting further? That would mean you'd have to trade Dye/Konerko and THEN you can go out and make that veteran signing theoretically. Not to mention the position Beckham has the most value to the Sox (or any other team) is being a power-hitting middle infielder. You move him to 3B and he's just MLB average probably. Not to mention moving him to 3B moves Fields/Viciedo out of position. I guess if it's for just one year, okay...then you take the draft pick for Roberts. But, then again, one year of Roberts for a young/affordable starting pitcher doesn't make a whole lot of sense. I mean, we could have a combination of Vince Coleman, Ichiro and Grady Sizemore leading off and it wouldn't do us any good with our starting rotation. Edited January 3, 2009 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 If the Sox are looking into trading Gavin, or listening intently, it must be like a BMac deal, in that Gavin might not be a great fit in the Cell going forward. Floyd did have a big Fb rate GB/FB= .70 and gave up 30 HR's. If something did go down, I'd expect another solid SP coming back in another deal. I could see both Dye and PK going. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearSox Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 I don't mind the idea of selling high on Floyd, but it honestly only makes sense if we are planning to trade Dye for a solid starter, and sign another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan1 Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 Floyd for Roberts = hell no. Even with an extension for Roberts, pitching and defense wins. If no extension for Roberts, then f*** NO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 QUOTE (BearSox @ Jan 2, 2009 -> 10:22 PM) _Self_ don't mind the idea of _verb_ on _proper noun_, but it honestly only makes sense if we are planning to _verb_ _proper noun_ for a solid _baseball position_, and _GM move_. BearSox MadLibs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 Fly balls fall for hits about 21.2% of the time whereas ground balls go for hits about 28.6% of the time. Groundballs go for hits a fairly higher percentage of the time than fly balls. But ground balls don't leave the park and they rarely go for extra base hits. When fly balls fall for hits you're looking at quite a few extra base hits and you'll also see about 11% of those leave the yard. Now the question with Floyd (or groundball pitchers like Webb, Garland or Lowe) is how good will the infield be? Do we want lots of ground balls with Fields at 3B and a possibly shaky DP combination up the middle? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBigHurt Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 I REALLY want Brian Roberts on this team... BADLY. But the Sox CANNOT trade Gavin, at least not for a non-pitcher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearSox Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 QUOTE (knightni @ Jan 2, 2009 -> 09:26 PM) BearSox MadLibs ™ I didn't release my book yet, where'd you get that!?!?!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santo=dorf Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 Fly balls fall for hits about 21.2% of the time whereas ground balls go for hits about 28.6% of the time. Groundballs go for hits a fairly higher percentage of the time than fly balls. But ground balls don't leave the park and they rarely go for extra base hits. When fly balls fall for hits you're looking at quite a few extra base hits and you'll also see about 11% of those leave the yard. Now the question with Floyd (or groundball pitchers like Webb, Garland or Lowe) is how good will the infield be? Do we want lots of ground balls with Fields at 3B and a possibly shaky DP combination up the middle? When talking about inducing groundballs, Jon Garland has no business being mentioned in the same breath as Webb and Lowe. Career GB/FB: Lowe: 3.32 Webb: 3.57 Garland: 1.29 It's not even close. People really need to stop exaggerating his groundball tendencies and with one of the worst K/9 rates in the MLB, he's putting a lot of flyballs in play anyways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jan 2, 2009 -> 09:10 PM) If we took on Mora and Roberts, we'd be adding $17 million to payroll. In a different time and place, maybe that would make sense...if there was a trade in place with Dye/Konerko going somewhere for a starting pitcher to replace Floyd. If was Santana for Konerko, maybe I could live with that one...but not the Bailey/Dye move, at least if we want to compete in 2009. If we're already surrendering in 09, that's fine, but that's generally not the modus operandi of the KW we all know and sometimes love. You'd still be adding payroll, and putting someone like Fields or Viciedo into the outfield in that type of scenario, either in LF or in Viciedo's case, possibly RF. Still, you don't do this trade if it means substituting someone totally unproven at the major league level like Bailey for a more known commodity in Floyd. At least Cooper knows he can get results/progress out of Gavin, the same thing's not guaranteed with other pitchers we'd bring in. Would there be anything more threatening to our future than being forced to go and acquire pitching during the season to stay in contention, instead of relying on our minor league system? It just seems anti-Kenny, and also like a recipe for disaster to rely on 3 unproven pitchers, let alone 2. Maybe KW has a plan to spend another $5-10 million on a veteran 4/5 type guy, but he keeps saying we're against budget or already at budget, how can we do that without subtracting further? That would mean you'd have to trade Dye/Konerko and THEN you can go out and make that veteran signing theoretically. Not to mention the position Beckham has the most value to the Sox (or any other team) is being a power-hitting middle infielder. You move him to 3B and he's just MLB average probably. Not to mention moving him to 3B moves Fields/Viciedo out of position. I guess if it's for just one year, okay...then you take the draft pick for Roberts. But, then again, one year of Roberts for a young/affordable starting pitcher doesn't make a whole lot of sense. I mean, we could have a combination of Vince Coleman, Ichiro and Grady Sizemore leading off and it wouldn't do us any good with our starting rotation. I'm not entirely convinced that Kenny isn't playing possum when it comes to our payroll. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 We better be getting Adam (not Pacman) Jones back in a bigger deal, or KW better have a cunning plan in all of this. This, as others have pointed out, is putting us in a bad hole. FWIW, O's fans love Getz, and they really like Lillibridge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 QUOTE (santo=dorf @ Jan 2, 2009 -> 11:06 PM) When talking about inducing groundballs, Jon Garland has no business being mentioned in the same breath as Webb and Lowe. Career GB/FB: Lowe: 3.32 Webb: 3.57 Garland: 1.29 It's not even close. People really need to stop exaggerating his groundball tendencies and with one of the worst K/9 rates in the MLB, he's putting a lot of flyballs in play anyways. That will end as soon as we stop saying all white basketball players are "heady" (like Steve Nash or Troy Skinner, lol) and all black basketball players are athletic/raw/uncoachable/emotional/selfish...the Jon Garland myth will live on forever in time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 The Orioles aren't going to trade Roberts and more in order to get Floyd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chunk23 Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jan 3, 2009 -> 05:12 AM) That will end as soon as we stop saying all white basketball players are "heady" (like Steve Nash or Troy Skinner, lol) and all black basketball players are athletic/raw/uncoachable/emotional/selfish...the Jon Garland myth will live on forever in time. and bad/mediocre white baseball players are scrappy/grindy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 Fathom is right. If anything KW would have to add another piece to get it done even though he wants/rumored to want it straight up. Either that, or KDub has to make it a bigger deal in the picture (like pry away Mr. Jones. ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmywins1 Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 Kenny had better have a f***ing deal done with another starter if he pulls this off. What is the point of having a lead-off man for a year if you're dealing with 3 rookie pitchers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess Dye Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (TheBigHurt @ Jan 2, 2009 -> 09:37 PM) I REALLY want Brian Roberts on this team... BADLY. But the Sox CANNOT trade Gavin, at least not for a non-pitcher. i know it's tough for all to get past the pitcherness of Floyd but dont you trade a non-special player for a special one? Roberts' age comes into play, but he's not that old either. i mean, either someone wants him or they dont..and if yr like that, then it means you never wanted Furcal or Hudson either. Roberts still fits in with the core we have... which is Alexei and CQ, guys about to enter the prime years. Pitching would remain the problem that it currently is. Either way we need to acquire SP and count on youngsters steppin up Edited January 3, 2009 by Princess Dye Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaTank Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 QUOTE (Princess Dye @ Jan 2, 2009 -> 10:33 PM) i know it's tough for all to get past the pitcherness of Floyd but dont you trade a non-special player for a special one? Roberts' age comes into play, but he's not that old either. i mean, either someone wants him or they dont..and if yr like that, then it means you never wanted Furcal or Hudson either. Roberts still fits in with the core we have... which is Alexei and CQ, guys about to enter the prime years. Pitching would remain the problem that it currently is. Either way we need to acquire SP and count on youngsters steppin up You don't consider Gavin Floyd to be a special player??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.