BaseballNick Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jan 3, 2009 -> 03:41 PM) Come on Dick, stop trying to stretch Royce Ring into Gavin Floyd to make an iffy point as it is. KW has dont alot of work to collect arms like Gavin and Danks and is not going to trade them for Brian Roberts just to fill a lead off hole. I think both Ozzie and KW desperately want a legit lead off hitter, and Roberts is about as good as it gets. He's a perfect fit for this team, but at the cost of Gavin Floyd... that would make me think twice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 QUOTE (SOXOBAMA @ Jan 2, 2009 -> 07:35 PM) TJ Simers was on the radio here in LA was talking about the Jones contract.. He reported that the Sox are the heavy favorite to get Andruw Jones for young pitching coming back to LA.. I know this will surprise a lot of people but I would trade for Andruw Jones and I'd be willing to give up the Broadway's of the world. I would not be willing to give up some of our better prospects and I would also expect to receive significant cash in return. I believe Jones will have a better season and that he is still an above average centerfielder. All that said Jones doesn't make sense unless the Sox make some other moves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 QUOTE (knightni @ Jan 2, 2009 -> 07:50 PM) Simers is smoking something. #1 The Sox don't have young pitching. #2 Jones isn't worth young pitching. #3 The Sox are short pitchers enough as it is. Technically the Sox have a lot of AAAA type of pitching prospects that I'm sure the Dodgers wouldn't mind getting in exchange for Jones. I would be shocked if we were talking about top prospects getting moved here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 QUOTE (Markbilliards @ Jan 2, 2009 -> 08:15 PM) Andruw's historical numbers are worth much more than that, no matter how bad he is now. Jones could get put on waivers and no team would touch him. The only reason the Sox would have to give up anything is because the Dodgers would be sending significant cash back to the White Sox or taking on some sort of bad contract and I can't think of any really bad contracts currently on the roster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaseballNick Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jan 3, 2009 -> 05:04 PM) Jones could get put on waivers and no team would touch him. The only reason the Sox would have to give up anything is because the Dodgers would be sending significant cash back to the White Sox or taking on some sort of bad contract and I can't think of any really bad contracts currently on the roster. That fact that his contract is now deferred (interest free over the next 6 seasons) makes him a lot more appealing in a trade, but I would think LAD is still going to pick up some of the cash. Scott Boras is a magician for getting Jones that deal in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 QUOTE (BaseballNick @ Jan 3, 2009 -> 03:20 PM) That fact that his contract is now deferred (interest free over the next 6 seasons) makes him a lot more appealing in a trade, but I would think LAD is still going to pick up some of the cash. Scott Boras is a magician for getting Jones that deal in the first place. Deferred or not, someone is going to have to pay that money sooner or later and no one is going to claim Jones off waivers. He'll get released and than someone will give him the major league minimum, imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heads22 Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 Mike MacDougal could totally go to LA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jan 3, 2009 -> 03:03 PM) When has KW traded a proven young first round major league arm for an older 2B, and when has he gone out and signed a notoriously lazy, overpaid, possible PED user? That has never happened to my knowledge...the closest he has come to taking young starters out of the rotation was Kip Wells and Josh Fogg for Ritchie, but that wasn't for a position player. And he hasn't repeated the same mistake twice. He traded Aaron Myette for Royce Clayton, but Myette was overhyped and far from a sure thing, even though many were quite high on him at the time. Maybe including Josh Rupe for Carl Everett once, but, again, Rupe was a "fringe" prospect and definitely not a sure thing. Other than that, there's only the Cortes/Lumsden for MacDougal deal, but again, not a position player in return. McCarthy for Danks, but a pitcher in return. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jan 3, 2009 -> 04:03 PM) When has KW traded a proven young first round major league arm for an older 2B, and when has he gone out and signed a notoriously lazy, overpaid, possible PED user? I was referring to KW going out and acquiring players he has been connected to through the press or through baseball circles. He did it with Contreras, he did it with Vazquez, he did it with Jr, etc, etc, etc. Not claiming that trading Floyd has "KW" written all over it, but I was pretty shocked when he dealt BMac, Rowand and Garland. He clearly isn't afraid to make a move when he is confident in his plan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 QUOTE (Heads22 @ Jan 3, 2009 -> 05:41 PM) Mike MacDougal could totally go to LA. I'd do that trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maury Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 No Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 Pls answer this: Why would we want Jones? Isn'tt he done??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maury Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 QUOTE (greg775 @ Jan 3, 2009 -> 11:40 PM) Pls answer this: Why would we want Jones? Isn'tt he done??? Because KW wanted him 5 years ago. Seems to be the trend. KW talks about a guy in his prime and cant get him, then gets him when he's worth s***. Griffey jr. Alomar bros, Dotel, Canseco, Lofton, ect. I remember KW talking about all these guys a few years before they got here or more. I'm not bashing KW as much as it seems. He's a good GM . I doubt this is true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (Maury @ Jan 4, 2009 -> 12:49 AM) Because KW wanted him 5 years ago. Seems to be the trend. KW talks about a guy in his prime and cant get him, then gets him when he's worth s***. Griffey jr. Alomar bros, Dotel, Canseco, Lofton, ect. I remember KW talking about all these guys a few years before they got here or more. I'm not bashing KW as much as it seems. He's a good GM . I doubt this is true. I think it's pushing it to include Dotel in that group (he was available more due to injury than age), and Canseco was simply a band-aid on an atrocious 2001 season that got off to a 14-29 start without Frank Thomas. It was just trying to put together a respectable offense, and lacking a minor league replacement for the The Big Hurt. Another example here would be Alex Cintron, KW coveted him for quite awhile. Mackowiak, too. Brian Daubach, way too late. D'Angelo Jimenez. Julio Ramirez. McKay Christenson. Carl Everett, twice. Charles Johnson, although he was okay for us in 2000, the bottom really fell out from underneath him after that strong/productive offensive season. Edited January 4, 2009 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maury Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jan 4, 2009 -> 01:06 AM) I think it's pushing it to include Dotel in that group (he was available more due to injury than age), and Canseco was simply a band-aid on an atrocious 2001 season that got off to a 14-29 start without Frank Thomas. It was just trying to put together a respectable offense, and lacking a minor league replacement for the The Big Hurt. Another example here would be Alex Cintron, KW coveted him for quite awhile. Mackowiak, too. Brian Daubach, way too late. D'Angelo Jimenez. Julio Ramirez. McKay Christenson. Carl Everett, twice. Charles Johnson, although he was okay for us in 2000, the bottom really fell out from underneath him after that strong/productive offensive season. Canseco shouldn't be involved there . That was an emergencey deal, butDotel was talked about in 03. Not that he was bad last year, but KW has a history of getting guys 3-4 years after he initally cant get them when the price is too high. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scenario Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (greg775 @ Jan 3, 2009 -> 11:40 PM) Pls answer this: Why would we want Jones? Isn'tt he done??? He played in 5 games in the Venezuelan winter leagues. He went 3-16 (.188 average) and struck out 8 times. On the positive side, at least that's 30 points higher than he batted for the Dodgers this year. I'm soooooo glad it was the Dodgers who made the huge mistake on him last winter instead of us. Can you imagine if they have to release him and eat the entire $36M of his contract... for what he gave them in terms of 'production'? That is an epic fail. Edited January 4, 2009 by scenario Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 QUOTE (R.J. @ Jan 3, 2009 -> 03:58 AM) Oh my god get Broadway out of here now, I don't care if Jones hits .120 And from seeing him swing the bat last year that's a very real possibility. Broadway may be a very underrated prospect. Jones shouldn't command a prospect who has/or might have a good chace of making it. The guy was a complete utter bust in LA and we are the target destimation? I don't think we are in that dire of need to be taking on Andruw Jomes who isn't even hitting his weight in the winter leagues right now. He could very well be washed up and done Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scenario Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 Imagine how badly KW would getting barbequed on this board if he had signed Jones to the type of deal the Dodgers did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 QUOTE (scenario @ Jan 4, 2009 -> 06:08 PM) Imagine how badly KW would getting barbequed on this board if he had signed Jones to the type of deal the Dodgers did. Unfortunately I have to admit that I was a proponent of signing him...I still think he will revert to some level of the form he used to have, but I must say, his rapid decline is certainly puzzling... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory Pratt Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 QUOTE (scenario @ Jan 4, 2009 -> 05:08 PM) Imagine how badly KW would getting barbequed on this board if he had signed Jones to the type of deal the Dodgers did. I've been one of KW's biggest critics -- though I've mellowed out in the last year and a half -- but signing Andruw Jones to the contract the Dodgers gave him wasn't terrible. It's a short deal, big money but not crippling money, for one of the best defensive players in the history of baseball at a fairly young age and who could be fairly guessed to have something left. Nobody thought he'd slug lower than Adam Dunn's batting average. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scenario Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 QUOTE (Gregory Pratt @ Jan 4, 2009 -> 05:57 PM) I've been one of KW's biggest critics -- though I've mellowed out in the last year and a half -- but signing Andruw Jones to the contract the Dodgers gave him wasn't terrible. It's a short deal, big money but not crippling money, for one of the best defensive players in the history of baseball at a fairly young age and who could be fairly guessed to have something left. Nobody thought he'd slug lower than Adam Dunn's batting average. If they cut him, it will end up costing them $36M for one year in which he hit .158. The only way that can be considered 'not terrible' is that it was: - only a two year contract - a large market team that took the hit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory Pratt Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 That's after-the-fact assessment, though. Know what's a bad contract? GMJ's. Nobody in their right mind would've thought he'd do what he did again; it was a career year in Texas, and I'm sure there must have been some rumors within the business about PEDs, too. Jones' had a bad result but it wasn't a stupid move. It just turned out wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 QUOTE (Gregory Pratt @ Jan 4, 2009 -> 06:41 PM) That's after-the-fact assessment, though. Know what's a bad contract? GMJ's. Nobody in their right mind would've thought he'd do what he did again; it was a career year in Texas, and I'm sure there must have been some rumors within the business about PEDs, too. Jones' had a bad result but it wasn't a stupid move. It just turned out wrong. I tend to agree with you GP; the one thing going against your hypothesis is that the Dodgers didn't really even need Jones when they signed him. They had already committed a more terrible feat by giving Juan Pierre a 5/$45 million contract the year before, and had both Ethier and Kemp waiting in the wings. Signing Jones basically forced them to juggle the playing time of Ethier and Kemp (at least while they were stubborn enough to play Pierre because of his contract), and thus, they left much better, cheaper production sitting on the bench for many games during the first few months of the season. It wasn't particularly a great signing for them, but I'll agree, not many had any clue that it would turn out as bad as it did... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory Pratt Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 I concede that the Dodgers did not need him and shouldn't have signed him. My contention is simply that signing Jones to that deal was not a terrible gamble. It didn't work out, but it wasn't poor decision-making and risk-hedging. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 (edited) But bringing in Kent, Garciaparra, Pierre AND Jones was obviously the wrong direction...and held up the youngsters for a half season of development and almost ended with them missing the playoffs. Fortunately for Coletti, the overall talent was enough to come back and overcome that error, it didn't work out so well for the Twins to bring in veterans at the beginning of the season and to hold onto them for a bit too long (Lamb and Hernandez, in particular). Now one can argue that they might have been set backward by coming up and playing TOO early, but if a player's ready, he's usually ready, if that makes any sense. Edited January 6, 2009 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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