A doomsday scenario for O. Cabrera/Sox

[caulfield12]

In theory, let's say the Marlins needed a shortstop (we know they don't) and wanted to sign Cabrera to a two-year, $16 million deal -- but they didn't want to give up their top draft pick to do it. They could, in theory, pick up the phone and ask the Yankees to sign Cabrera to what the Marlins wanted to pay; the Yankees would give up only a fourth-round pick, and the Marlins could trade a prospect to the Yankees to offset the value of the fourth-round pick. Cabrera would have to waive his right to block the trade because any free agent signing a multiyear deal cannot be traded until June.

 

In short, Cabrera could get the contract he wanted, the Marlins could get the player they wanted and the Yankees could get a little extra value for their fourth-round pick. Everybody would win except the White Sox (who presumably would be apoplectic, because they are in line to get a first-round pick). Makes some sense, eh?

 

Well, in talking with executives and lawyers in baseball this week, they said the powers that be probably would greatly frown upon this type of system manipulation. And as one executive said, the teams involved, even by discussing the matter, might be guilty of collusion, in a winter in which there are rumblings on the union side about collusion. We'll see whether it comes up.

 

from buster olney blog, www.espn.com

 

[Buehrle>Wood]

1. I doubt the commish office would approve of this, even if their main stuff is looking at salary.

 

2. That would completely ruin any thoughts of the Marlins talking to us as long as KW has a job. It wouldn't help things with the Yankees, either.

[caulfield12]

We've taken a number of players from the Yankees under Cashman, including El Duque (former Yankee) and most impactfully (is that a word?) Contreras, which really was the one that probably stuck in Cashman's craw the most.

 

Any others? D'Angelo Jimenez was once a top Yankees prospect. The Swisher deal, of course. Marte used to be in their system as well before going to Pittsburgh and being "discovered" by KW and the scouting department.

 

Yeah, we haven't done many trades with the Blue Jays since the Sirotka/Wells fiasco, the only one off the top of my head is Eyre/Glover? Of course, Gord Ash is long gone as their GM. Probably someday in the future the Braves will take another Kinzer/Tellem client and the big old world (and wheel) will keep spinning around. By the way, is former Sox Asst. GM and Dodgers' GM Dan Evans now working as an agent? Maybe he's trying to go the Jeffrey Moorad route...the most interesting thing in the world would be if Boras tried to run a major league team (like the Pirates or Royals).

 

PS My real hope was just to get "dickallen" worked up over this new wrinkle in the Cabrera/KW/arbritration/Type A situation....an added twist.

Edited January 11, 2009 by caulfield12

[witesoxfan]

We've taken a number of players from the Yankees under Cashman, including El Duque (former Yankee) and most impactfully (is that a word?) Contreras, which really was the one that probably stuck in Cashman's craw the most.

 

Duque was a free agent...funny though that the Yankees actually traded him to the Sox intitially, and then the Sox dealt him to Montreal for Bartolo Colon. He later rejoined the Yankees and then signed with the Sox as mentioned previously.

 

The Yankees dealt Contreras because it looked like, and quite frankly was, a terrible contract. He was a long reliever for them, and they dealt him for a different long reliever who was signed for cheaper and fewer years. I can't blame them for it.

 

Any others? D'Angelo Jimenez was once a top Yankees prospect. The Swisher deal, of course. Marte used to be in their system as well before going to Pittsburgh and being "discovered" by KW and the scouting department.

 

If you're going to use Marte, you can't suddenly forget about Javy Vazquez.

 

I don't look too much into players that have been traded outside of between teams. There are GMs that want players all the time, and something such as that is coincidental. Jimenez was merely an underrated player at the time who had potential who also had his share of problems, and Williams gave him a chance to capture a starting position on a weak Sox team at the time. The fact that he was cut so quickly gives you an idea as to how much Williams really liked him, especially considering how patient Williams has been with younger players in the past.

 

Regarding Swisher, Cashman most likely felt that it was a good deal at the time, and Williams wanted to get rid of him while also reading the market well, and suddenly Swisher looks like a bad contract with no where to play in New York. Kudos to Williams on making a good deal, and Cashman doesn't care because he has the money to afford an expensive backup.

 

Yeah, we haven't done many trades with the Blue Jays since the Sirotka/Wells fiasco, the only one off the top of my head is Eyre/Glover? Of course, Gord Ash is long gone as their GM. Probably someday in the future the Braves will take another Kinzer/Tellem client and the big old world (and wheel) will keep spinning around. By the way, is former Sox Asst. GM and Dodgers' GM Dan Evans now working as an agent? Maybe he's trying to go the Jeffrey Moorad route...the most interesting thing in the world would be if Boras tried to run a major league team (like the Pirates or Royals).

 

When was the last time the Sox made a deal with the O's, Rays, Marlins, or Cardinals? Of those, the last I can think of is the Koch trade with the Marlins, and that was just as much of getting rid of him as it was getting anyone in return. The Sox generally make small trades with several teams and big trades with only a select few. I'm not too worried about it.

[Leonard Zelig]

Isn' there a rule that says you have to wait some determined amount of time before trading a player that you signed?

[NorthSideSox72]

LOL at this article. He writes an article about a scenario that he specifically states won't happen and is probably not allowed, to illustrate some phantom doom for the Sox. He must have nothing real to write about.

 

[santo=dorf]

It's still interesting to read so in case it did happen people wouldn't completely flip out about it. What if Cabrera decides to go to Japan? I think that would be the worst case scenario.

[caulfield12]

Duque was a free agent...funny though that the Yankees actually traded him to the Sox intitially, and then the Sox dealt him to Montreal for Bartolo Colon. He later rejoined the Yankees and then signed with the Sox as mentioned previously.

 

The Yankees dealt Contreras because it looked like, and quite frankly was, a terrible contract. He was a long reliever for them, and they dealt him for a different long reliever who was signed for cheaper and fewer years. I can't blame them for it.

 

 

 

If you're going to use Marte, you can't suddenly forget about Javy Vazquez.

 

I don't look too much into players that have been traded outside of between teams. There are GMs that want players all the time, and something such as that is coincidental. Jimenez was merely an underrated player at the time who had potential who also had his share of problems, and Williams gave him a chance to capture a starting position on a weak Sox team at the time. The fact that he was cut so quickly gives you an idea as to how much Williams really liked him, especially considering how patient Williams has been with younger players in the past.

 

 

 

 

Regarding Swisher, Cashman most likely felt that it was a good deal at the time, and Williams wanted to get rid of him while also reading the market well, and suddenly Swisher looks like a bad contract with no where to play in New York. Kudos to Williams on making a good deal, and Cashman doesn't care because he has the money to afford an expensive backup.

 

 

 

When was the last time the Sox made a deal with the O's, Rays, Marlins, or Cardinals? Of those, the last I can think of is the Koch trade with the Marlins, and that was just as much of getting rid of him as it was getting anyone in return. The Sox generally make small trades with several teams and big trades with only a select few. I'm not too worried about it.

 

 

Marlins...maybe Julio Ramirez for Jeff Abbott?

 

Orioles would have to be Singleton for Willie Harris.

 

Jimenez, in all fairness, suffered major injuries in a car crash....amazingly, I think he played almost a full season with the Reds later on in his brief career, but he was known as a clubhouse cancer while with the White Sox. There was a famous story/urban legend that Frank Thomas sat on him in the clubhouse one time and that the clubhouse really fell apart around that time with Clayton, Lofton, Lee and Jimenez the main culprits. So I think KW simply felt he wasn't worth the headaches because his potential was replaced by Willie Bloomquist-ness with more power but atrocious defense that would make Pete Incaviglia or Kevin Nursery Reimer look like a Gold Glover.

 

In 2005, I just thought it was hilarious that Cashman had to sit back and watch both Contreras and El Duque not only lead the team to the World Series title, but also blow through the hated Red Sox along the way. Maybe he was smirking a little, though, when El Duque mopped up that inning for Marte and nailed the door shut on the Red Sox.

 

I think the Yankees will end up trading Nady and keeping Swisher, as Nady is a FA after this season and appears to be generating more interest coming off a pretty strong season statistically for him.

 

Contreras was mostly traded because he was completely melting down in head-to-head match-ups with the Red Sox, and showed no signs of turning the corner. In fact, things were getting cumulatively worse with each start, seemingly.

Edited January 11, 2009 by caulfield12

[bschmaranz]

Wasn't the doomsday scenario for the Sox Cabrera taking arbitration?

[knightni]

Can you trade a recently signed free agent?

[Kyyle23]

Can you trade a recently signed free agent?

 

Isnt there a couple month period of time where you cannot trade a recently signed FA? Or maybe after the conclusion of ST?

[santo=dorf]

You can trade them earlier before June 15th if you get their permission.

[HuskyCaucasian]

Can you trade a recently signed free agent?

I was under the impression that there was at least a one month moratorium on a traded player... and I would think it applies to recently signed free agents as well.

 

Basically, I thought once you were traded, or signed, you couldnt be moved for another month.

 

Plus, I am almost 100% sure that if you are traded in year one of a multi-year deal, you have a right to free agency at the conclusion of that season. Not that it would apply in this case... but it's interesting none the less.

[Buehrle>Wood]

Can you trade a recently signed free agent?

 

The article states not until the next June, but in this case, Cabrera would waive that right.

[knightni]

Why would the Marlins want him?

 

They have Hanley Ramirez and Dan Uggla.

 

 

[DukeNukeEm]

Why would the Marlins want him?

 

They have Hanley Ramirez and Dan Uggla.

I think Uggla is on the block.

[knightni]

Uggla is a defensive liability.

 

 

[Jimmywins1]

the article basically says that it's hypothetical and he's just throwing that team name out there.

Edited January 11, 2009 by Jimmywins1

[bighurt4life]

Olney is just throwing s*** on the wall.

 

This would never happen. The commissioner's office would never allow it to happen. If it did somehow take place the Marlins and Yankees would have a very difficult road ahead of them. The GM boy's club is a small group. If you are a sneaky s*** and pull a BS move like that nobody is going to trust you again for a long time and nobody will want to make any deals with you. It would be damn near career suicide though Cashman has such a big rep that he could probably survive but he would be forever tainted.

[DukeNukeEm]

Why would anybody do all of this over Orlando Cabrera? I mean seriously?

[caulfield12]

If you look at his history over the last decade, he has played on a lot of winning/playoff caliber ballclubs. I don't think it's a COMPLETE coincidence. OTOH, he's never really found a long-term home, either.

Edited January 12, 2009 by caulfield12