Swingandalongonetoleft Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jan 11, 2009 -> 06:15 PM) You're forgetting we are in the AL Central and that we still face the NL in interleague play... Understood, but we played the NL in 2007 too. It was pathetic and hard to watch. No matter how it looks on paper, it's hard to envision the Indians and especially The Tigers falling on their asses again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 Yes, but what kind of rotations are the Tigers and Indians going to throw out there? Bonderman's health is a huge question mark, Willis is even more of a ?, and Robertson was atrocious last year. Sure you have the likes of Zach Miner, but he's nothing special. You have Verlander, who has never looked quite as good as his rookie season and has piled up huge pitch counts already, and Galarraga, who was very solid, but who Tigers fans would have the same concerns with him we have with Danks and Floyd. With the Indians....Carmona was very erratic last year, and you know Lee can't possibly put up the same numbers, can he? Well, if he can, then so can Danks. That leaves a laundry list of questions. Pavano? Reyes? Lewis? Westbrook will be out until mid-season, roughly, just like Contreras. Then you have the collection of so-so garbageness that is Zach Jackson, Laffey and Sowers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swingandalongonetoleft Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 (edited) No doubt, the pitching has question marks. I wouldn't be happy if either of those rotations/pens wore my teams uniform. I didn't believe in Carmona even during the Indians ALCS season. The one thing is a lot of these guys have had success before. Tigers rotation even got them to the World Series before they forgot how to throw to first. (c'mon now, the same Cardinals that got 20-something hung on them at the Cell only to get laughed out of the venue the next day?) Just as our Danks and Floyd, (but moreso Floyd)they're liable to pitch well. Predicting pitching in the winter sucks, it's such a crapshoot. It's still the Tigers lineup that worries me-I guess I'm still in such disbelief at what happened in near Canadia last year. It's why the games are played though, and it's why I can't write the Sox off this year even if this is the roster we open with. Sidenote- Going to the NL was great for CC's wallet. Where I had doubts about Carmona, that same feeling came to me about CC. I see a lot of anticipointed Yanks fans. He's not going to be throwing shutouts like he did in Milwaukee, even shutouts past the 3rd inning. Edited January 12, 2009 by Swingandalongonetoleft Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 (edited) Thank God we don't have to face Sabathia so much every year. I think we've only beaten him once in his career or something crazy like that. Every time Buehrle was slated to face him head-to-head, a loss was almost a near certainty. I know one game CC was knocked out very early or injured, can't remember off the top of my head the exact circumstances. The Tigers are a lot different without Kenny Rogers, Willis and Bonderman...even if you add in Edwin Jackson, who I forgot to mention in my last post. However, if Willis ever gets it back together completely (not likely at this point, at least not in the AL), they would be extremely dangerous with that offense, as long as it remains relatively healthy. You just wonder if Leyland might not jump ship again if he feels 2009 is starting out like 2008 left off? Edited January 12, 2009 by caulfield12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 QUOTE (BearSox @ Jan 11, 2009 -> 08:55 PM) An injury like that can change the pitcher drastically. Everything will be out of synch, and it would take a tremendous amount of time just to learn how to pitch again. If he were younger, I wouldn't be talking like this, but he's probably about 40 right now. I think his career is done. An injury to his achilles shouldn't change anything as long as he regains the flexibility and there isn't any reason he shouldn't. I've had many patients come back from this injury and do fine. This includes patients in baseball, football, rugby players, triathletes and marathon runners. The only reason his career would be over is that he was declining before the injury. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 QUOTE (ptatc @ Jan 12, 2009 -> 08:47 AM) An injury to his achilles shouldn't change anything as long as he regains the flexibility and there isn't any reason he shouldn't. I've had many patients come back from this injury and do fine. This includes patients in baseball, football, rugby players, triathletes and marathon runners. The only reason his career would be over is that he was declining before the injury. Please remember you are arguing with Bearsox PHD. Your experience in the field is irrelevant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 QUOTE (ptatc @ Jan 12, 2009 -> 08:47 AM) An injury to his achilles shouldn't change anything as long as he regains the flexibility and there isn't any reason he shouldn't. I've had many patients come back from this injury and do fine. This includes patients in baseball, football, rugby players, triathletes and marathon runners. The only reason his career would be over is that he was declining before the injury. Thanks for the insight, I would have thought the exact opposite. And I would be in favor of bringing back Freddy. He showed that he still could pitch after the recovery and I think he will have added some strength in the offseaon. One thing is for sure (which was proved last season) KW and Ozzie wont bring him in if he isnt 100 percent healthy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jan 12, 2009 -> 08:56 AM) One thing is for sure (which was proved last season) KW and Ozzie wont bring him in if he isnt 100 percent healthy. I hope they bring him in too, but I disagree about him having to be 100% healthy if the contract is more than the minimum guaranteed. They brought in Loaisa last year and he was far from 100%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 12, 2009 -> 09:01 AM) I hope they bring him in too, but I disagree about him having to be 100% healthy if the contract is more than the minimum guaranteed. They brought in Loaisa last year and he was far from 100%. I was saying Freddy in particular. They had a chance to bring him in last year and didnt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jan 12, 2009 -> 09:12 AM) I was saying Freddy in particular. They had a chance to bring him in last year and didnt. That was a little different. They knew he would need rehab time and most likely couldn't help them win. He only had a couple of starts with Detroit. He obviously has to at least convince them there is a decent chance he can help them at some point during the season, but I don't think he has to show them he's ready to pitch 175 innings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 I think Freddy would obviously have to show us that he is completely healthy, and can reach at least the high 80's, if not more, velocity wise. But I'd probably rather go with him to at least start the season, than say Marquez or Poreda. Those 2 probably need more time in AAA, hence why Garcia could be a good stop-gap option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 12, 2009 Author Share Posted January 12, 2009 QUOTE (DBAHO @ Jan 12, 2009 -> 10:43 AM) I think Freddy would obviously have to show us that he is completely healthy, and can reach at least the high 80's, if not more, velocity wise. But I'd probably rather go with him to at least start the season, than say Marquez or Poreda. Those 2 probably need more time in AAA, hence why Garcia could be a good stop-gap option. Not to mention he seems to be able to win, even if he is topping out at 88-90. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 12, 2009 -> 09:39 AM) Not to mention he seems to be able to win, even if he is topping out at 88-90. If he can fire up that nasty split finger pitch he was sporting at the end of 2006 without it tearing apart his shoulder, in addition to his old repertoire, then he can be successful even if he's in the mid-upper 80's. Successful of course does not mean he's going to go out and be Johan Santana, but he can certainly go out and win games for a team. Was he working the splitter at all end of last season or did he drop that after the surgery? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
266344 Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 Looks like the Freddy rumor is heating up again. According to Scot Gregor of the Chicago Daily Herald, Freddy Garcia is "strongly considering returning to the White Sox." Gregor says we shouldn't be surprised to see Garcia sign a deal similar to Bartolo Colon's within the next couple days. When Kenny Williams was asked if his rotation's set, he said "we'll see," which Gregor believes is "code for no." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess Dye Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 QUOTE (Sec101Row1 @ Jan 15, 2009 -> 09:03 PM) Looks like the Freddy rumor is heating up again. According to Scot Gregor of the Chicago Daily Herald, Freddy Garcia is "strongly considering returning to the White Sox." Gregor says we shouldn't be surprised to see Garcia sign a deal similar to Bartolo Colon's within the next couple days. When Kenny Williams was asked if his rotation's set, he said "we'll see," which Gregor believes is "code for no." Out of these guys and Contreras we'll cobble together some pitching. I am fine with Richard out of the bullpen, I think he strengthens us there, had some good postseason experiences. Like Buehrle in '00 out of the pen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Side Fireworks Man Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 QUOTE (Princess Dye @ Jan 15, 2009 -> 09:11 PM) Out of these guys and Contreras we'll cobble together some pitching. I am fine with Richard out of the bullpen, I think he strengthens us there, had some good postseason experiences. Like Buehrle in '00 out of the pen. I agree. The Colon signing was a good one for the deal they gave him and signing Garcia to a similar deal would also be a good move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
claydude14 Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 Looking at the rest of the Central, adding Freddy I feel puts us in just as good a position as everyone else as far as rotations. We'd have enough arms to keep the 4/5 at least average. And the pen gets richer too. If Dye isn't moved, the lineup can live with an Owens/Anderson platoon I feel. That's assuming Fields is 07 Fields though. I'm still on the Fields bandwagon. He's good friends with TCQ too, so that could be a positive for both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatScott82 Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 You could never have enough pitching. You figure both will be hurt at some point during the year... so letting Marquez and Poreda get started down in triple-a to get warmed up cant be a bad thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderBolt Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 QUOTE (BearSox @ Jan 11, 2009 -> 11:26 AM) ugh....... yeah, this is just a waste of everyone's time. Garcia is done as a pitcher, I'd be shocked if he stays healthy for spring training. Did you even see game 162 of last year where Garcia pretty much matched Floyd pitch for pitch? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
103 mph screwball Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Jan 15, 2009 -> 10:24 PM) Did you even see game 162 of last year where Garcia pretty much matched Floyd pitch for pitch? He looked good to me. I'm glad he took himself out of that game. I wonder if Ozzie ever thanked him for giving us a shot at the bullpen. What seems so impressive to me is that he is able to compete without his velocity. If KW can get Garcia for a contract like Colon's he should do it. This is not some sort of 2005 charity deal. Garcia is another low risk high reward. Like Colon, if Freddie sucks, he can be released if the contract is cheap enough and few would fault KW for taking the gamble. Best case is that Colon and Freddie return to glory days and Buehrle ends up being a 14 million dollar bullpen guy in the 2009 World Series. Worst case, the Sox are back to Marquez and CR/AP and we will see the kids develop in the rotation instead of in the pen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheChrisSamsa Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (103 mph screwball @ Jan 15, 2009 -> 10:56 PM) He looked good to me. I'm glad he took himself out of that game. I wonder if Ozzie ever thanked him for giving us a shot at the bullpen. What seems so impressive to me is that he is able to compete without his velocity. If KW can get Garcia for a contract like Colon's he should do it. This is not some sort of 2005 charity deal. Garcia is another low risk high reward. Like Colon, if Freddie sucks, he can be released if the contract is cheap enough and few would fault KW for taking the gamble. Best case is that Colon and Freddie return to glory days and Buehrle ends up being a 14 million dollar bullpen guy in the 2009 World Series. Worst case, the Sox are back to Marquez and CR/AP and we will see the kids develop in the rotation instead of in the pen. I see what you did there. Edited January 16, 2009 by PlunketChris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 (edited) It's down to the Mets, Rangers and White Sox. Yankees are out. Looks like he is even willing to take a minor league deal, as long as they give him an opportunity to make the major league rotation out of spring training. Edited January 17, 2009 by caulfield12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderBolt Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 I'd put 55% on the Pale Hose with 45% on the Mets. Really don't see him ending up in Texas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjshoe04 Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 I'd love to have Freddy back. Makes sense for both sides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
266344 Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 F/A pitchers available as of 1/16/09 Kris Benson (33) Paul Byrd (38) - Type B, offered arb Roger Clemens (46) Josh Fogg (32) Freddy Garcia (33) Jon Garland (29) - Type B, offered arb Tom Glavine (43) Charlie Haeger (25) Livan Hernandez (34) Orlando Hernandez (43) Chuck James (27) Jason Jennings (30) Jon Lieber (39) Braden Looper (34) - Type B, not offered arb Rodrigo Lopez (33) Pedro Martinez (37) Mark Mulder (31) John Parrish (31) Odalis Perez (32) Oliver Perez (27) - Type A, offered arb Andy Pettitte (37) - Type A, not offered arb Sidney Ponson (32) Kenny Rogers (44) Curt Schilling (42) Ben Sheets (30) - Type A, offered arb Kip Wells (32) Randy Wolf (32) - Type B, not offered arb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts