Angels want dye per-cowley

[witesoxfan]

Contreras was fairly new to the MLB at the time we acquired him; correct me if I'm wrong. El Duque didn't seem too risky. Bartolo, Freddy and Pedro are all ridiculous injury risks and we've been over Uribe time and time again. I don't see much point to your post. I'm just saying that's quite a sad story for the offseason to only be looking at aging injury risks.

 

Prior to signing with the White Sox, Orlando Hernandez had his previous 4 seasons cut shorter by injuries, including 2003 which he missed entirely. I don't understand how he is really any different than Colon at the very least, and arguably Freddy and Pedro too.

[TheBigHurt]

Prior to signing with the White Sox, Orlando Hernandez had his previous 4 seasons cut shorter by injuries, including 2003 which he missed entirely. I don't understand how he is really any different than Colon at the very least, and arguably Freddy and Pedro too.

 

So I'm led to believe you think Bartolo and Freddy will play from here on out with no problems and revert? Hell, could happen, but it's quite unlikely. It simply doesn't pay to rely on such players and not have backup plans or better options. That said, Bartolo was a nice pick-up at that price. You get my point, though.

[witesoxfan]

So I'm led to believe you think Bartolo and Freddy will play from here on out with no problems and revert? Hell, could happen, but it's quite unlikely. It simply doesn't pay to rely on such players and not have backup plans or better options. That said, Bartolo was a nice pick-up at that price. You get my point, though.

 

yeah that's not what I said at all, but sure

[beck72]

So I'm led to believe you think Bartolo and Freddy will play from here on out with no problems and revert? Hell, could happen, but it's quite unlikely. It simply doesn't pay to rely on such players and not have backup plans or better options. That said, Bartolo was a nice pick-up at that price. You get my point, though.

If the sox sign Freddy, it's probably with the idea that only one of Colon or Freddy will "revert to form", and be the 4th starter. That leaves Marquez/ Poreda/ Richard/ Egbert for the 5th spot. If the unlikely occurs and both Colon and Freddy stay healthy, so much the better. The 5th starter types have options and can throw in AAA. The problem becomes what if both get re-injured and/ or suck.

 

IMO, the sox should still acquire another SP who could be the 5th Starter. A guy who threw in AA or AAA last year but could start in AAA and be ready in case of injury.

[caulfield12]

Braden Looper or Yadel Marti would be fine for that role.

 

The Big Hurt...what would you do if you were GM of the White Sox, starting TODAY, to make the organization better? Throw out the past, throw out KW and Wilder, etc. What would you do to create an exemplary organization that you could/would be proud of and wouldn't have to dis every day on the message board, lol?

[beck72]

Braden Looper or Yadel Marti would be fine for that role.

I forgot about Marti. From Marti's interview, he stated he needed to take care of his family [ie. he needs the money]. If the sox signed him to an Alexei type deal, that would have guaranteed money even if he was in the minors, that would be another very nice SP option for the sox.

[caulfield12]

I can see it now.....Colon, Garcia, Andruw Jones and Marti (3-4 years)...all for less than the price of ONE year of Garland, Oliver Perez, Wolf or Andy Pettitte.

 

Not bad at all.

Edited January 16, 2009 by caulfield12

[GREEDY]

I don't get KW's obsession with Figgins but that's just me...also I dont get why a lot of posters here hate Owens,I agree that he is no Rickey Henderson but to say that he's one of the worst major leaguers ever is over the top,me thinks...let's give him a real shot at the big leagues to see what he can do.

 

I can't speak for other people but I personally don't like Owens because he is a speed demon that plays s*** defense.

 

He takes horrible routes on fly balls making him a poor center fielder; and he has a terrible arm, making him a below average corner outfielder.

 

To answer you other question, I think KW likes Figgins because for his manager wants a tradiitional leadoff hitter. It is no fun being a manager of a team that just tries to get on base and mash, even if that is clearly the best blanket strategy when playing at the Cell. Figgins gets on base at a .370 clip, is very versatile, and is a switch hitter. I think the "obsesion" on the message boards with Figgins is because we supposedly need an infielder who is a traditional leadoff man, and he is the only one seemingly available.

[TheBigHurt]

What would you do to create an exemplary organization that you could/would be proud of and wouldn't have to dis every day on the message board, lol?

 

Hmm... get that 5th starter and leadoff hitter we need? Doesn't seem all that complicated to me, but what do I know. I'm not a businessman, but all I know is that the payroll is way too high for what this team has to show for it.

 

And BTW, it's not like I'm in a minority with my opinions at ALL.

 

[Kyyle23]

Hmm... get that 5th starter and leadoff hitter we need? Doesn't seem all that complicated to me, but what do I know. I'm not a businessman, but all I know is that the payroll is way too high for what this team has to show for it.

 

And BTW, it's not like I'm in a minority with my opinions at ALL.

 

I will waive my magic wand and *poof*! There it is. You are right, that wasn't complicated at all

[caulfield12]

It's not a matter of being right or wrong....being in the majority or minority. Last year, if you'd have predicted we would have won the AL Central, you would have been in the minority, and people probably would have been laughing at your optimism.

 

The White Sox don't OWE us anything...we choose to be fans or not...if enough fans make the choice not to care or become apathetic (kind of my attitude now about Iowa Hawkeye basketball), then something has to be done.

 

If we hadn't won the World Series, if we hadn't won the division in 2008...well, then there would be some justification in criticism. There would be MANY MANY legitimate areas we could have all pointed out throughout the offseason (like Twins fans could do) about why we missed the playoffs by one game after leading for most of the year.

 

In this economic climate, I think it's more logical to pay Yadel Marte, Colon ($1-3 million), Garcia and Andruw Jones the same amount we would pay Jon Garland. You, probably would rather have Garland than those four, am I correct in stating that? Just a difference in philosophy. The same things will come into play between the Red Sox and Yankees. If you were a Red Sox fan, would you be equally furious that your team was signing question marks in Smoltz/Penny/Kotsay/Baldelli/Saito for a fraction of the cost of the "sure things" that are Sabathia, Burnett and TEX???

 

Or are you simply saying we shouldn't be in the same position the Red Sox are trying to compete with the Yankees? That we should dominate the AL Central each and every season because of our inherent, built-in advantages as the largest media/population market of those five??

 

 

 

 

 

 

[RockRaines]

Hmm... get that 5th starter and leadoff hitter we need? Doesn't seem all that complicated to me, but what do I know. I'm not a businessman, but all I know is that the payroll is way too high for what this team has to show for it.

 

And BTW, it's not like I'm in a minority with my opinions at ALL.

The 5th starter is already on the team guy. A young guy will be filling that role with Bartolo/Freddy taking the 4th spot.

[caulfield12]

BIG HURT....let me give you this scenario and tell me what you'd do for 5th starter.

 

1) Go with the likes of Poreda/Marquez/Richard/Broadway/Egbert/DJ Carasco

 

2) Sign Jon Garland for $24-27 million over 3 years

 

3) Sign Oliver Perez for $30 million over 3 years

 

4) Sign Randy Wolf for two seasons at $15 million

 

5) Sign Andy Pettitte for one year at $11-12 million

 

6) Any other option (Braden Looper, Pedro Martinez, Jason Jennings, Mark Mulder, Jon Lieber, Sidney Ponson, Livan Hernandez, Tom Glavine, Josh Fogg, Jamey Wright, Kip Wells, Kenny Rogers, El Duque, Tony Armas, Jr...now that I think about it Armas, Jr. is a bit intriguing too, to match with Cooper)

 

7) Cuban defector Yadel Marti for $6 million over 4 years

 

8) Bring in Paul Byrd at mid-season

 

I underlined my choices, along with Sweaty/I look like the Rock Freddy Garcia.

 

So if you gave me a healthy Contreras with a 95-97 MPH fastball in August, then Colon/Garcia/Mulder/Armas, Jr./Marti, we would win the World Series, lol. MAYBE. That's why baseball is so interesting, particularly this offseason.

Edited January 16, 2009 by caulfield12

[witesoxfan]

Hmm... get that 5th starter and leadoff hitter we need? Doesn't seem all that complicated to me, but what do I know. I'm not a businessman, but all I know is that the payroll is way too high for what this team has to show for it.

 

And BTW, it's not like I'm in a minority with my opinions at ALL.

 

Where are you going to find a leadoff hitter, where will he play, and what will he cost?

 

I also dislike the whole thought of an actual "leadoff hitter" having to hit 1st in the lineup. With a lineup as full of power as the Sox is, it doesn't make a ton of sense to have a light hitting .330/.320/.650 guy at the top of the lineup taking ABs away from Q-Thome-Dye-PK-Ramirez. As such, I'd throw an experimental lineup out there, simply to keep Owens out of the lineup.

 

Ramirez - SS

Quentin - LF

Thome - DH

Dye - RF

Konerko - 1B

Pierzynski - C

Fields - 3B

Anderson - CF

Getz - 2B

 

By doing such, the "leadoff hitter" is merely hitting 9th in the lineup, because if all Getz is this year is a .330/.320/.650 guy, he's still getting on base enough to fulfill the role, but he's doing it in the 9 spot to make sure the power hitters get their ABs. If he's even better than that, then there's a possibility that you could move him up to the leadoff spot. By putting this lineup out there, you also improve the team defense immensely just by having Anderson's presence in CF.

 

I'm not thrilled with the lineup, but getting those guys their ABs would be very nice in the long run.

[WCSox]

2) Sign Jon Garland for $24-27 million over 3 years

 

I don't see Jon taking less than $10 million/year, especially when he's supposedly asking for $13 mil per. I'd also think that a pitcher still in his prime would want a four-year deal.

 

[Balta1701]

Ramirez - SS

The big problem with Alexei leading off is exactly what you just said...if you've got a lineup full of boppers, you want OBP at the top. Alexei's OBP is almost entirely built on his batting average since he doesn't take a walk.

[Kalapse]

The big problem with Alexei leading off is exactly what you just said...if you've got a lineup full of boppers, you want OBP at the top. Alexei's OBP is almost entirely built on his batting average since he doesn't take a walk.

And his best asset has been his ability to hit with runners in scoring position, in the leadoff spot such situations will be incredibly limited. He's just not a good fit for the top of the order.

[Balta1701]

And his best asset has been his ability to hit with runners in scoring position, in the leadoff spot such situations will be incredibly limited. He's just not a good fit for the top of the order.

I still like him in the #2 spot.

[southsider2k5]

I don't see Jon taking less than $10 million/year, especially when he's supposedly asking for $13 mil per. I'd also think that a pitcher still in his prime would want a four-year deal.

 

Who do you see out there offering Garland more than $10 million per season and/or a multi-year deal

[scenario]

Alexei is not what most people would think of as a normal #2 hitter, but it's where I'd put him.

 

Alexei is a very good fastball hitter. And #2 hitters (statistically) see the second most fastballs of any hitter in the order. Plus with Q hitting behind him, most pitchers are unlikely to screw around and risk walking him.

 

So, I think he could have a very productive season in that spot.

[WCSox]

Who do you see out there offering Garland more than $10 million per season and/or a multi-year deal

 

A lot of teams could use a middle/back of the rotation vet like Jon. And despite last season, he isn't exactly washed up.

 

I'm can't say for sure that he'd get more than $10 million/year, but 4/40 seems very reasonable to me. At minimum, I'd say he could get 4/35. Even with the bad market, the Braves gave a 35-year-old Derek Lowe 4/60. Teams may whine about the economy, but their actions clearly show that they're still willing to spend.

Edited January 16, 2009 by WCSox

[Jordan4life_2007]

Alexei is not what most people would think of as a normal #2 hitter, but it's where I'd put him.

 

Alexei is a very good fastball hitter. And #2 hitters (statistically) see the second most fastballs of any hitter in the order. Plus with Q hitting behind him, most pitchers are unlikely to screw around and risk walking him.

 

So, I think he could have a very productive season in that spot.

 

I think he could as well. But as Kalapse pointed out, the guy thrives with RISP. I think that is his best asset to this point as a hitter.

[witesoxfan]

As stated, I'm not fond of Alexei leading off either, and was merely putting together a creative lineup in which the "leadoff hitter" hits 9th. The only problem really is that the Sox have lackluster options for a leadoff hitter at the current moment, and it's hard to envision anyone currently in the Sox system leading off on opening day.

 

I will say that Lillibridge is my dark horse to leadoff and play CF, but that's about all I got.

[RockRaines]

I still like him in the #2 spot.

I think Getz settles into that role.

 

Alexei needs to be hitting 6ish so he can hit with runners on or become a speed/stealing option after our 3,4,5 GDP out of an inning.

[NorthSideSox72]

I think Getz settles into that role.

 

Alexei needs to be hitting 6ish so he can hit with runners on or become a speed/stealing option after our 3,4,5 GDP out of an inning.

I'd rather have Getz lead off and Lexi hit #2, or possibly 6-ish as you say.