Official: White Sox sign Colon

[NorthSideSox72]

Pie's need more time at the Major League Level. The Cubs refuse to offer him this. The consensus is that Pies' approaching bust territory, but the kid's has shown some promise whenever he's given the chance. I'd be more than happy to stick him out there with BA and see what happens.

Pie's treatment by the Cubs is pretty similar to BA's treatment by the Sox. Both are potential break-outs, or potential busts. I'd be all for what you suggest - picking up Pie and setting him against Anderson out there.

 

[Balta1701]

I refuse to let myself believe Owens will carry that job past the first week of the season.

IMO, the only thing that will stop him from doing so for the first few weeks/first couple months is injury.

[scenario]

Pie's treatment by the Cubs is pretty similar to BA's treatment by the Sox. Both are potential break-outs, or potential busts.

 

Except that Pie is 3 years younger than Brian.

 

Seems bizarre that the Cubs would stick a fork in the guy at 23 years old.

Edited January 16, 2009 by scenario

[witesoxfan]

Except that Pie is 3 years younger than Brian.

 

Seems bizarre that the Cubs would stick a fork in the guy at 23 years old.

 

They aren't an organization that's set out to make smart, sound decisions; they're an organization that wants to make sexy moves to bring fans and attention upon themselves. They'll regret that within the next 3-5 years. It'll be really funny if they don't get a World Series title in that time frame because they are screwing themselves for the long term.

[caulfield12]

Except that Pie is 3 years younger than Brian.

 

Seems bizarre that the Cubs would stick a fork in the guy at 23 years old.

 

 

Then, on the other hand, you have organizations still willing to give Corey Patterson a shot.

 

The NFL is more merciless...think Maurice Clarett.

[RockRaines]

Except that Pie is 3 years younger than Brian.

 

Seems bizarre that the Cubs would stick a fork in the guy at 23 years old.

There was a whole article about it in the paper today. They basically came out and said he couldnt hack it like Theriot and they are moving on. Pie will be released, and we should pick him up ASAP.

[NorthSideSox72]

Except that Pie is 3 years younger than Brian.

 

Seems bizarre that the Cubs would stick a fork in the guy at 23 years old.

Wasn't meant to be a perfect parallel - more a similar career start with similar potential in a player, and similar in the way the organization handled them.

 

[Heads22]

Put me on the I Like Pie bandwagon.

[scenario]

Wasn't meant to be a perfect parallel - more a similar career start with similar potential in a player, and similar in the way the organization handled them.

 

It really seems strange though that they didn't give Pie more regular playing time before deciding to pull the proverbial plug on him.

 

For example, in his entire time with the Cubs there have only been 51 games in which Pie has had 3 or more at-bats: 34 games in 2007 and 17 games in 2008. What kind of shot is THAT?

 

To put those numbers in perspective... Brian had 38 games with 3 or more at-bats in 2008 alone... a year where he was seemingly buried on the Sox bench. (And Brian had 83 games with 3+ at-bats in 2006).

 

So... how much of a shot did the Cubs really give Pie (considering Brian Anderson has had significant playing time in more than 2X as many games as Pie at the major league level)?

Edited January 16, 2009 by scenario

[ThunderBolt]

The Cubs have gotten extremely desperate since the end of the Baker Era for their team to adopt a “winning mentality.” In their minds; they can’t waste time sending kids out there and not having immediate results. Notice that when Theriot, Hill, Fontenot and Soto were all given starting jobs they started out hot, and were immediately cemented into the lineup. Meanwhile, players like Pie, and Marshall, and Cedeno have spent years trying to get a foothold on the team, and have had Lou Piniella sour quickly upon them. This has worked out well for Marshall, because he’s found a niche (Harden’s Longman) Pie, however, has had to deal with the presence of Jacque Jones, Craig Monroe, Reed Johnson, and Jim Edmonds effectively breathing down his neck and has had no opportunity to succeed for a prolonged time at the Major League Level . BA’s case is somewhat similar (He’s had to compete with Erstad, D-Wheezey, ETC), except he was given at least half a year to perform at the MLB.

[nitetrain8601]

I'll take Pie over Owens in CF, but then again, I would put myself in CF over Owens, but I don't know if I would sign him to this team. Ozzie is stuck on Owens it seems like and it's going to take a huge injury before he's gone.

[Dick Allen]

Pie won't be released. Some team will give up something for him. As far as the criticism the Cubs are getting on here for "giving up" on him, when you are trying to win how long of a rope do you give a guy? If Lillibridge, Getz, Fields, Owens start out hitting .220 in 50 AB, I'm sure many here including me will be calling for a replacement. The one area I may think differently on, is the Cubs should have some room to work with in their division. You'd think they would want to give Pie another shot at least before cutting the cord, unless they are totally convinced he will never hit. Its not like the Reed Johnson/Fukudome platoon currently planned for CF is of all star calibur.

[scenario]

Here's a special diet to help keep Colon healthy.

 

[caulfield12]

Pie won't be released. Some team will give up something for him. As far as the criticism the Cubs are getting on here for "giving up" on him, when you are trying to win how long of a rope do you give a guy? If Lillibridge, Getz, Fields, Owens start out hitting .220 in 50 AB, I'm sure many here including me will be calling for a replacement. The one area I may think differently on, is the Cubs should have some room to work with in their division. You'd think they would want to give Pie another shot at least before cutting the cord, unless they are totally convinced he will never hit. Its not like the Reed Johnson/Fukudome platoon currently planned for CF is of all star calibur.

 

 

The argument against that is someone like Alexei Ramirez.

 

He was hitting closer to .110 than .220, yet KW and Ozzie kept showing faith in him and eventually it was rewarded. When Anderson had the same opportunity in 2006, he never really took advantage, and they had done everything humanly possibly to take the pressure off of him.

Edited January 17, 2009 by caulfield12

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

The argument against that is someone like Alexei Ramirez.

 

He was hitting closer to .110 than .220, yet KW and Ozzie kept showing faith in him and eventually it was rewarded. When Anderson had the same opportunity in 2006, he never really took advantage, and they had done everything humanly possibly to take the pressure off of him.

Greg Walker was quoted I believe last season saying that going into the 2006 season the Sox knew Brian had huge problems with his swing but chose not to do anything about it, instead letting him try to just get by on natural ability. So the GM knew he wasn't ready yet still didn't acquire a veteran replacement, then the hitting coach chose to ignore Brian's problems, and then Ozzie threw him under the bus for not hitting, even after he said repeatedly in ST that all Anderson had to do was play defense.

 

I'm not making excuses for Brian, but the Sox set him up to fail. They knew he wasn't going to hit and they knew he needed to put in a lot of work in order to hit, and instead of having Brian work on his swing in Triple A and trade for or sign an adequate replacement - the Sox spent I think something like $7M that year on Cintron, Mackowiak, and Widger/Alomar when that could have gone to a CF - they instead decided to go with a plan that they already thought was going to fail.

 

I hope the BA in 2006 experiment was part of an old, bad philosophy that no longer exists and that the Sox have learned their lessons by now. If you don't think your minor league hitters are capable of hitting Major League pitching then don't call them up. Bring in a cheap veteran instead if you have to.

[caulfield12]

Greg Walker was quoted I believe last season saying that going into the 2006 season the Sox knew Brian had huge problems with his swing but chose not to do anything about it, instead letting him try to just get by on natural ability. So the GM knew he wasn't ready yet still didn't acquire a veteran replacement, then the hitting coach chose to ignore Brian's problems, and then Ozzie threw him under the bus for not hitting, even after he said repeatedly in ST that all Anderson had to do was play defense.

 

I'm not making excuses for Brian, but the Sox set him up to fail. They knew he wasn't going to hit and they knew he needed to put in a lot of work in order to hit, and instead of having Brian work on his swing in Triple A and trade for or sign an adequate replacement - the Sox spent I think something like $7M that year on Cintron, Mackowiak, and Widger/Alomar when that could have gone to a CF - they instead decided to go with a plan that they already thought was going to fail.

 

I hope the BA in 2006 experiment was part of an old, bad philosophy that no longer exists and that the Sox have learned their lessons by now. If you don't think your minor league hitters are capable of hitting Major League pitching then don't call them up. Bring in a cheap veteran instead if you have to.

 

 

But I do remember that they were even saying into June/July that it didn't matter how well he hit....as long as he played good defense.

 

You expect a first round draft pick with a PAC 10 background to be on a pretty fast track. The White Sox perhaps overestimated him (making the trades of Rowand, Webster, Reed and Young and keeping Anderson)...but he SHOULD have been ready. The fact is that it seems Brian Anderson might ALWAYS have that problem with his swing, just like Borchard did, and just like many feel Fields MIGHT have, although his 2007 results were better than anything BA produced...certainly over an extended period of time.

 

If nothing else, the White Sox have learned that drafting "athletically-gifted/raw" players like Borchard, Brian West, Fields and Anderson perhaps wasn't the best approach...that projecting them, instead of targeting stars like Reed (2nd round) and Beckham, was too much of a hit or miss type of strategy.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

But I do remember that they were even saying into June/July that it didn't matter how well he hit....as long as he played good defense.

 

You expect a first round draft pick with a PAC 10 background to be on a pretty fast track. The White Sox perhaps overestimated him (making the trades of Rowand, Webster, Reed and Young and keeping Anderson)...but he SHOULD have been ready. The fact is that it seems Brian Anderson might ALWAYS have that problem with his swing, just like Borchard did, and just like many feel Fields MIGHT have, although his 2007 results were better than anything BA produced...certainly over an extended period of time.

 

If nothing else, the White Sox have learned that drafting "athletically-gifted/raw" players like Borchard, Brian West, Fields and Anderson perhaps wasn't the best approach...that projecting them, instead of targeting stars like Reed (2nd round) and Beckham, was too much of a hit or miss type of strategy.

That all is an indictment of the Sox minor league player development system. The Sox drafted Brian and knew he needed work, yet apparently they let him climb the ladder without making him do the work, and when he had finally gotten to the highest levels of the minors and succeeded there on nothing but natural ability and confidence, instead of making him do the work and then bringing him up, they just brought him straight up.

 

Brian's swing looked a lot better in ST last year, better than I'd ever seen from him. Will he still K a bunch? Yes, and so will Fields who you also mention, but there's a certain degree of improvement that any young, raw player is expected to make, and the point is, you're supposed to have those players make those improvements in the minor leagues, and you're not supposed to ask them to hit MLB pitching when you and your staff don't think they can hit MLB pitching.

 

Signing raw, althletically-gifted, perhaps dual-sport athletes... there's nothing wrong with that at all. In fact, that is a great thing to do if you feel you can get a guy who is potentially a very special player. The problem is you need to have the right people on the farm to teach these things, and the philosophy has to be consistent, and you can't reward players with promotions when they don't deserve them.

 

Beckham was an aberration, we normally never pick that high. Sweeney was a player that was considered a safe pick of sorts, as was Getz, i.e. they were both considered "baseball players" (no s***, eh?) who would bottom out as useful MLB players and, especially in Sweeney's case, perhaps achieve a lot more.

 

As far as the draft goes, I just want guys with ceilings. Pick as many players as you can with big potential, and sign as many of them as you can. Every single year there tons of veteran free agents who end up signing minor league deals hoping to catch on somewhere as a possible 5th starter, or last man in the bullpen, or UT/bench player, etc. These guys can generally all be had for next to nothing, just the league minimum and in some cases maybe with incentives attached depending on the player and his history. So, overall, I see no reason to draft those kinds of players and spend money on coaches, trainers, signing bonuses, etc. just to try to develop someone you could replace with an easily available veteran at the minimum. When it gets late into the draft and you've already got the guys you think you can play then it's okay, but I really detest the McCulloch and Broadway type picks. Whisler was a bad pick, as was Lumsden as two recent examples, but at least there was potential there.

[caulfield12]

I still think the simplest explanation is that we've had very few high first round draft picks since the time of Ventura, Thomas, McDowell and Alex Fernandez.

 

Of course, we can look draft by draft and see obvious examples (Broadway over Garza), Royce Ring, Jason Stumm, Honel, etc.

 

The one really big impact bat that simply didn't develop was Borchard. If we could have had a power-hitting, lefthanded RFer from 2003-2008, it would have made a huge impact on this organization, but alas, it wasn't meant to be. The irony is that we were able to unload Borchard for another team's unrealized first round potential in Matt Thornton, just as we'd earlier found our lefthander of the first half of the decade in Damaso Marte. Both turned out to be high impact trades that were barely blurbs in Baseball America.

[Jordan4life_2007]

I still think the simplest explanation is that we've had very few high first round draft picks since the time of Ventura, Thomas, McDowell and Alex Fernandez.

Of course, we can look draft by draft and see obvious examples (Broadway over Garza), Royce Ring, Jason Stumm, Honel, etc.

 

The one really big impact bat that simply didn't develop was Borchard. If we could have had a power-hitting, lefthanded RFer from 2003-2008, it would have made a huge impact on this organization, but alas, it wasn't meant to be. The irony is that we were able to unload Borchard for another team's unrealized first round potential in Matt Thornton, just as we'd earlier found our lefthander of the first half of the decade in Damaso Marte. Both turned out to be high impact trades that were barely blurbs in Baseball America.

 

That's part of it. Hardly the only reason. We've just been really bad at scouting/drafting/developing over the last decade or so.

[witesoxfan]

Pie won't be released. Some team will give up something for him. As far as the criticism the Cubs are getting on here for "giving up" on him, when you are trying to win how long of a rope do you give a guy? If Lillibridge, Getz, Fields, Owens start out hitting .220 in 50 AB, I'm sure many here including me will be calling for a replacement. The one area I may think differently on, is the Cubs should have some room to work with in their division. You'd think they would want to give Pie another shot at least before cutting the cord, unless they are totally convinced he will never hit. Its not like the Reed Johnson/Fukudome platoon currently planned for CF is of all star calibur.

 

Sox fans on here will want those guys released or replaced, but Sox fans are a fickle group. Some had no problem with Wise as the main LFer late season and in the playoffs because he was clutch and he had a "good" stick, but after his hot start, he was quite terrible.

 

However, the thought of Pie being flat out released is absurd. If the Cubs straight up released him when he has virtually zero years of service, there would be 31 teams lining up to get him and he'd sign with the one that gave him the best chance to start.

 

Greg Walker was quoted I believe last season saying that going into the 2006 season the Sox knew Brian had huge problems with his swing but chose not to do anything about it, instead letting him try to just get by on natural ability. So the GM knew he wasn't ready yet still didn't acquire a veteran replacement, then the hitting coach chose to ignore Brian's problems, and then Ozzie threw him under the bus for not hitting, even after he said repeatedly in ST that all Anderson had to do was play defense.

 

I'll call BS on this..or, Greg Walker should have been fired after the 2006 season for not fixing a problem. If it's not broke, don't fix it; if it is broken, please DO fix it. He did not. Or he did not try. Even knowing BA is one of the most athletic players in the Central division, you still do anything you can to fix a s***ty swing like his. Perhaps he did this past year and we'll see Anderson starting in CF hitting 20 homers with a .750 OPS; I'm not counting on it.

[beck72]

Greg Walker was quoted I believe last season saying that going into the 2006 season the Sox knew Brian had huge problems with his swing but chose not to do anything about it, instead letting him try to just get by on natural ability. So the GM knew he wasn't ready yet still didn't acquire a veteran replacement, then the hitting coach chose to ignore Brian's problems, and then Ozzie threw him under the bus for not hitting, even after he said repeatedly in ST that all Anderson had to do was play defense.

 

I'm not making excuses for Brian, but the Sox set him up to fail. They knew he wasn't going to hit and they knew he needed to put in a lot of work in order to hit, and instead of having Brian work on his swing in Triple A and trade for or sign an adequate replacement - the Sox spent I think something like $7M that year on Cintron, Mackowiak, and Widger/Alomar when that could have gone to a CF - they instead decided to go with a plan that they already thought was going to fail.

 

I hope the BA in 2006 experiment was part of an old, bad philosophy that no longer exists and that the Sox have learned their lessons by now. If you don't think your minor league hitters are capable of hitting Major League pitching then don't call them up. Bring in a cheap veteran instead if you have to.

IIRC, it was that the sox tried to get Anderson to make some adjustments [to his swing, approach to baseball, such as being more professional] and that Anderson didn't take to the suggestions. Anderson even admitted as such that he didn't do what he needed to do. That seems to be in the past, and that's a good thing for BA and the sox.

 

 

[beck72]

As far as Pie, goes, I'd like the sox to take a gamble on him-provided the sox could get a leadoff hitter elsewhere so that BA and Pie could platoon in CF. I'm not sure what his defense is like in say LF or RF, if he's even played other spots besides CF.

 

It's too early to call a 23 yr old a bust. But it's very clear he doesn't fit on the Cubs in 2009. He's out of options and the Cubs have Gathright to take Pie's place this yr. But I do think another team [that has no intentions of battling for a playoff spot] that can put Pie in the lineup everyday for 50-75 games straight could potentially benefit more from acquiring Pie than the sox would. The sox would be looking at a platoon guy. Though they could have him fight it out in CF with BA and he could outshine the "competition" of BA and Owens and earn an everyday spot, like Alexei and Quentin did in spring '08.

[nitetrain8601]

So much for Pie, he just was traded.

[MexSoxFan#1]

Ok,I don't know if anyone else posted this thought on Colon so at the risk of repeating something obvious,here goes...at the very least Colon should eat up a lot of innings this year,pun very much intended.

[GreatScott82]

According to TheScore, Colon is in Chicago right now.

Freddy is going to pick in the next few days between a few teams: White Sox, Mets, Yankees and Rangers.

 

I predict Colon signs here. Freddy signs with the Mets.

 

Damn im good!