Official: White Sox sign Colon

[Hawkfan]

The excitement around this news is a joke. I love colon as much as the next guy, but in what way does this put us over the top? I think everyone here is just happy we did something.

[caulfield12]

Far as I'm concerned, we were lucky and the stars aligned in 2005. Last year barely counts because we won a s*** division. The fact remains that the focus on this team has been shaky and the payroll as well as the players have not been maintained properly. How can you deny that when our roster is less impressive than many others and our youngest players aren't raking in the cash yet? The fact we have this high of a payroll is mind-boggling, and we all know how the organization is with things.

 

 

Last time I checked, we'd won the AL Central 3 times in the last nine years. Minnesota has 4, Cleveland has 2. Detroit and KC haven't won it once in that time frame.

 

Lucky in 2005? Well, if you call adding Iguchi, El Duque, Vizcaino, Hermanson, Pods and AJ for the price of one Lee or Ordonez lucky, well...no team that wins 99 games is lucky. That's not the way baseball works. We went 11-1 in the post-season. It wasn't even close.

 

If you want to talk about luck or fortune, talk about the 06 Cardinals or the Marlins getting in as Wild Card teams and getting hot and having dominant pitching.

 

Lest we forget, the 2006 team was 26 games over .500 at the All-Star Break. Was that also luck? What changed? Did we get unlucky? Well, yes...the best pitcher in baseball at that time (Contreras) went down and the pitching staff (especially the starting rotation) started to fade, and Jenks also got hurt.

 

99-63=2005

11-1=post-season

57-31=first half 2006

 

167-95...that's LUCKY??? Your what hurts?

 

Ozzie Guillen has always done better than his statistical/Pythagorean averages would indicate...so we're either lucky, have talent or Guillen is a good manager/motivator/counselor? Which one? Didn't KW hire Ozzie? Was that luck, too? Or good judgment? What's the difference?

 

Can't you also argue 2007 was terribly unlucky, or 2001? That goes with the "lucky" 2000 White Sox, right?

 

Once again, I'm not understanding the logic of why it's BAD that Danks, Floyd, Ramirez and Quentin are all cheap/young/affordable? KW was "lucky" for signing Alexei to perhaps the best "bargain" contract in the history of recent baseball?

 

What do you mean, "taking care of their players"? What players haven't the White Sox taken care of? Specific examples!

 

The Thome contract locked in, we had no choice with that...unless we wanted to lose a grievance with the Player's Association. And he wasn't a bad deal at all for $9 million...everyone keeps forgetting the payroll number and what he actually makes aren't one and the same...

 

So we're left with which complaints? Linebrink/Dotel? Did you see our bullpen in late 06 and all of 2007? It would have been insane NOT to make changes and spend money there, it was the only logical thing for KW to do. Contreras? Konerko? MacDougal? Those are the only contracts you can argue about.

 

Show me one upper-echelon team in baseball that doesn't have at least one player with a "questionable" long-term/big money deal...one team that's been completely healthy the last 2 years, and one team without a player who had to be released/traded/DFA'ed/outrighted due to poor performance???

 

JUST NAME ONE, PLEASE. This I want to read...I will stay up waiting for your response.

 

 

 

[chisox2334]

from daily herald and quotes from Garcia's agent and ozzie at the end :

 

 

he White Sox' starting rotation features Mark Buehrle, Gavin Floyd, John Danks and two big question marks.

 

One of those could be erased within the next few days if Freddy Garcia decides to return to the South Side.

 

A source Wednesday confirmed that the 33-year-old Garcia is considering signing with the Sox, while the Mets, Rangers and Yankees also are in the mix.

 

Major-league sources Wednesday also reported that veteran right-hander Bartolo Colon and the Sox have agreed on a one-year contract, pending a physical. Colon pitched for the White Sox in 2003.

 

Meanwhile, Chris Leible, who works for the agency (Peter E. Greenberg and Associates) representing Garcia, intimated the free-agent starter could be a good fit for the Sox.

 

"We're talking to several teams that have an interest," Leible said Wednesday night. "We're just kind of waiting for the right situation, the right opportunity. There's really not a timetable, but he'd like to get settled in at some point soon.

 

"Freddy really enjoyed playing for them (White Sox). He got a ring there, and he was a big reason they won the ring."

 

Garcia was a workhorse for the 2005 White Sox, who rolled through the playoffs and swept the Houston Astros in the World Series. Acquired in a trade from the Seattle Mariners on June 27, 2004, Garcia started for the Sox through 2006 and was traded to the Philadelphia Phillies for Floyd and Gio Gonzalez.

 

In 82 starts for the White Sox, Garcia was 40-21 with a 4.24 ERA. The big right-hander made only 11 starts for Philadelphia in 2007 and was 1-5 with a 5.90 ERA before season-ending shoulder surgery.

 

Garcia made a comeback with the Tigers late last season and was 1-1 with a 4.20 ERA in 3 starts.

 

He was on the mound for Detroit on Sept. 29 at U.S. Cellular Field in a game the Sox needed to win to force a tiebreaking game against the Minnesota Twins for first place in the AL Central. Garcia allowed 2 runs over 5 innings before exiting with shoulder pain in the Tigers' 8-2 loss.

 

Garcia pitched winter ball in his native Venezuela at the end of the season but cut his stay short with more shoulder discomfort. That might raise another red flag, but Leible said a subsequent MRI showed no structural damage.

 

"The MRI was clean and he feels really good," Leible said. "He just went to winter ball to get some innings, but he wasn't going to push it."

 

Manager Ozzie Guillen's presence can only help the White Sox land Garcia, who is married to Guillen's niece. Currently vacationing on a "remote island," Guillen sent word through White Sox spokesman Bob Beghtol on Wednesday that he hasn't talked to Garcia recently.

[TheBigHurt]

Lucky in 2005? Well, if you call adding Iguchi, El Duque, Vizcaino, Hermanson, Pods and AJ for the price of one Lee or Ordonez lucky, well...no team that wins 99 games is lucky. That's not the way baseball works. We went 11-1 in the post-season. It wasn't even close.

 

Once again, I'm not understanding the logic of why it's BAD that Danks, Floyd, Ramirez and Quentin are all cheap/young/affordable? KW was "lucky" for signing Alexei to perhaps the best "bargain" contract in the history of recent baseball?

 

What do you mean, "taking care of their players"? What players haven't the White Sox taken care of? Specific examples!

 

By lucky I mean those acquisitions turning out so well. NO ONE predicted them to be winning moves at the time.

 

You are TOTALLY misunderstanding me. What I mean is that we have GREAT youngsters like those you mentioned and they are all very cheap at the moment, yet our overall payroll is ridiculously high for the "talent" we have. This team is currently quite an underachieving mess with a lot of holes for that type of money.

 

See above. That's all I was referring to.

[caulfield12]

The 2007 team was really an underachieving mess at $25 million more.

 

We're not really that far away...just a couple more acquisitions and we'll be able to compete for the division.

 

The teams with the big payrolls like DET came to the same realization and cut back...Minnesota isn't adding anything, really. There's no reason a $115-125 million team is going to be significantly better than a $90-100 million team, it's just that the GM has much less margin for error. Now when you get up to $150 million plus like the Yankees or Red Sox...but even the Red Sox are being careful with their money in this market, as their revenue streams aren't unlimited like the Mets or Yankees in their new stadiums.

 

The White Sox were incredibly efficient in 2005 at $65 million. It's possible, but realistically, that number has to be adjusted up to around $70-80 million unless you have an incredibly productive farm system, which we haven't had over the last decade (or we've used to make trades to shore up weaknesses in the 25 man roster).

 

 

[beck72]

IMO, Colon and Freddy should be counted on for one starting spot. While conceivably, they should be 4th and 5th if healthy, those are big IFs. Best case scenario is both are healthy and effective and Marquez and Poreda can be in AAA ready should Colon or FG go down or suck.

 

Richard should get a shot for the 5th spot, and will probably pitch multiple innings in spring as preparation for the rotation. But if Freddy and Bartolo win the spots, Richard would be in the pen. He'd likely be needed esp. for the long man if those other two are in the rotation.

 

If they sign both Freddy and Colon [to 1 yr, incentive deals], these would be decent low risk moves. It's much better than locking into Garland for $20 + mill. for 3 yrs. I'd still like to see the sox add a decent arm that could be in AAA to start the year but be another option besides Marquez and Poreda. A guy like Bailey would be ideal, as he could work on a few things and not be pressured to be in the rotation right away. Maybe that was thinking behind the talk of Dye being available [per Heyman/ Rosenthal-a big name] for top pitching prospects that are not major league ready.

[WCSox]

If they sign both Freddy and Colon [to 1 yr, incentive deals], these would be decent low risk moves. It's much better than locking into Garland for $20 + mill. for 3 yrs.

 

I agree. And I suspect that Garland will be looking for a deal closer to 5 years/$50 million.

 

[Dick Allen]

I agree. And I suspect that Garland will be looking for a deal closer to 5 years/$50 million.

I was reading somewhere Garland is still asking for $13 million a year, although if someone offered a guy with his WHIP $10 million a year for 5 years, if I were his agent, I would tell him to take it.

[103 mph screwball]

I wouldn't give Garland 3 years 27 mil in the current market. I'd rather the Sox went after Sheets or Pedro.

[WCSox]

I was reading somewhere Garland is still asking for $13 million a year, although if someone offered a guy with his WHIP $10 million a year for 5 years, if I were his agent, I would tell him to take it.

 

LOL at Jon thinking that he's worth $13 million a year.

 

I wouldn't give Garland 3 years 27 mil in the current market. I'd rather the Sox went after Sheets or Pedro.

 

I agree.

 

[rangercal]

The excitement around this news is a joke. I love colon as much as the next guy, but in what way does this put us over the top? I think everyone here is just happy we did something.

 

who is excited?

[beck72]

The excitement around this news is a joke. I love colon as much as the next guy, but in what way does this put us over the top? I think everyone here is just happy we did something.

I wouldn't call it excitement in the least. It's just something that shows what direction the sox are headed. If the sox are after Colon and/or Freddy, it shows they won't be going after a SP who wants a multiyear deal like Garland.

[joejoesox]

Cooper on M&H: "Colon will not have to compete for a spot in the rotation, if he proves he's healthy"

 

not word for word, but that's what coop said.

[Texsox]

Correct me if my perceptions are wrong. Comparing a couple sox pitchers.

 

Wednesday afternoon in May before a crowd of 6,000

 

Colon goes 6 innings, gives up 5 earned, appears almost asleep.

Freddy goes 7 gives up 5 at home, 3 on the road

Javy goes 8, gives up 1 earned

Buerhle goes 7, gives up 4, looks relaxed and having fun

 

Saturday night in late September at Yankee stadium, playoff spot on the line. 70,000 fans

 

Colon goes 8, gives up 3, filthy in the 6-7-8

Freddy goes 8, gives up 3, pissed he's pulled, wants to finish

Javy goes 3, gives up 8, leaves no out and the bases loaded. May have crapped/pissed his pants

Buerhle goes 7, gives up 4, looks relaxed and having fun

[witesoxfan]

By lucky I mean those acquisitions turning out so well. NO ONE predicted them to be winning moves at the time.

 

You are TOTALLY misunderstanding me. What I mean is that we have GREAT youngsters like those you mentioned and they are all very cheap at the moment, yet our overall payroll is ridiculously high for the "talent" we have. This team is currently quite an underachieving mess with a lot of holes for that type of money.

 

See above. That's all I was referring to.

 

There was a general feeling on the board about the 2005 team that it was a pretty good team going into the season. On the first day of spring training, the main hole on the entire team was the utility infielder spot. You can go back and check out posts from that time period, and there is a good general feeling, even though the Sox were predicted to finish 3rd and 4th by the majority of writers and analysts. Rob Neyer was the only person to predict that team would finish in 1st, and he backed off that prediction pretty early on in the season even though they were proving him right.

 

You also have to look at the team going in to the season, knowing what you knew about the players. The only 4 big surprises from that team are probably Uribe not having a good season (and we now know he's just a bad hitter), Contreras having the season he did (and it took until mid July-August for him to really turn it on), Garland being as good as he was, and the bullpen being as dominant as it was. You could possibly argue Dye, but he'd had seasons like that previously and was finally fully healthy. That was just a good team going into the season, and all you really had to do was look at the components of it. The part that got the Sox as lucky as it did was the bullpen, and that fluctuates every year with every team - even the Twins bullpen blew last year.

 

I don't think that team was really as lucky as you portray it to be, other than arguably making it to the World Series. It was just a really damn good team. The following year, the pitching sucked and the offense went stale at the end of the season, which explains why they didn't set a franchise record for wins.

[103 mph screwball]

Cooper on M&H: "Colon will not have to compete for a spot in the rotation, if he proves he's healthy"

 

not word for word, but that's what coop said.

If Colon is healthy, he becomes the #3 starter and maybe #2. There is a lot of upside to this signing and I think he will have a chip on his shoulder to give a big FU to the red sawks. I'm excited about this moves POTENTIAL and even more excited that KW really didn't think that the Sox were ready to go to battle in 09 with that staff.

 

Hot stove on MLB network was talking about Sheets and Garland. Garland is in for a rude awakening in salary. He had the 12th worst WHIP for those eligible last year and he should have taken the arbitration. Sheets has interest from the Rangers but has 3 red flags to GM's. His shoulder, elbow, and back injuries are making him a 5-6 million dollar pitcher and if he want's his 12 million he will have to earn it via incentives. Sheets wants the dough because he is 30 years old and pitched 198 innings last year.

 

Sheets would be my move. Gamble the 6 million with another 6 million in incentives and a vesting option with a buyout. Worth the risk for ACE potential.

Pedro would be plan B. He would need an incentive contract as well. If he is healthy, he adds swagger, sells tickets, and has ACE potential.

Garcia would be plan C. Big game Freddie would not cost much and could pay off big. He knows how to pitch and if I'm wrong and he sucks, then it would be the end of the world to just release him.

 

Danks

Floyd

MB

Colon

Garcia

 

Danks

Sheets

Floyd

MB

Colon

 

Danks

Floyd

Pedro

MB

Colon

 

Come on KW. Who Dares Wins. If the injury risk guys sit on the DL, nobody could blame you for taking the shot and you still have Marquez and CR/AP. If they succeed, then the Sox have a much better shot at getting beyond the central to another ring.

 

 

[witesoxfan]

Sheets is a $10 mill pitcher who will make $15-17 in incentives on a 1-year deal. When he's pitching well and healthy, he's one of the best in the game. The Sox don't have the money to sign him, nor will they.

[southsider2k5]

Correct me if my perceptions are wrong. Comparing a couple sox pitchers.

 

Wednesday afternoon in May before a crowd of 6,000

 

Colon goes 6 innings, gives up 5 earned, appears almost asleep.

Freddy goes 7 gives up 5 at home, 3 on the road

Javy goes 8, gives up 1 earned

Buerhle goes 7, gives up 4, looks relaxed and having fun

 

Saturday night in late September at Yankee stadium, playoff spot on the line. 70,000 fans

 

Colon goes 8, gives up 3, filthy in the 6-7-8

Freddy goes 8, gives up 3, pissed he's pulled, wants to finish

Javy goes 3, gives up 8, leaves no out and the bases loaded. May have crapped/pissed his pants

Buerhle goes 7, gives up 4, looks relaxed and having fun

 

Looks about right to me.

[caulfield12]

There's no doubt that Sheets is the best pitcher left...and that close examination will show minimal difference (probably favoring Sheets) when compared to AJ Burnett's career path.

 

There's no way he would take anything under $10 million, economy be damned. There are too many teams competing for something that's in limited supply...a legit 1-2 starter, when healthy. Nobody else on the board comes close....certainly not Garland, Wolf, Perez or Pettitte.

 

Of those four, I would take Pettitte in a heartbeat...but he already turned down a $10 million, one year deal from the Yankees and he will either retire or go back to the Stros, who don't seem to have any money to spend, which means he'll suck up his pride and sign with NY or retire from baseball.

 

Of all the names left out there, I think KW is looking at the following five...

 

YADEL MARTI

GARCIA

MULDER

PEDRO

BRADEN LOOPER (he's supposed to be a sinkerballer, what his FO/GB ratio the last couple of years, would it play in USCF?)

Edited January 15, 2009 by caulfield12

[Texsox]

I'm kinda digging the one year @ cheap and trying to catch some lightening over different guys 5 @ lots. What the hell.

[103 mph screwball]

Sheets is a $10 mill pitcher who will make $15-17 in incentives on a 1-year deal. When he's pitching well and healthy, he's one of the best in the game. The Sox don't have the money to sign him, nor will they.

You may be right and Sheets agrees with you. However, Hot Stove on MLB says that GM's are seeing him as 5-6 million plus incentives to reach 12 million guy in this market. The Sox have the money. I do not buy the poor stuff. KW is just waiting for the price of these free agents to continue to drop and then he will not be able to resist the opportunity to improve the Sox at a bargain price. The fact that when Sheets can be one of the best in the game is my point.

 

Danks

Sheets with Marquez on standby

Floyd

MB

Colon/ with CR/AP on standby

 

That is an impressive rotation that can overcome any growing pains a youthful lineup might have while guys like Lillibridge, Getz, Fields, Viciedo, Benemit, and Anderson prove who belongs.

 

Add Sheets or Pedro and be bold.

[caulfield12]

Sep. 29, 2008 - 10:37 a.m. ET

 

According to the Chicago Sun Times, the "best-case scenario" for Jose Contreras' return from a torn Achilles' tendon next season is "late July or early August."

 

The newspaper adds that "even that was doubtful because of the severity of the injury" and speculates that he may have pitched his last game for the White Sox. ''Things are going well mentally, but it isn't something I can rush,'' Contreras said. ''I know it's something that is going to take time.''

 

Are there any more recent stories anywhere about Contreras' rehab/comeback?

[LVSoxFan]

I concur that I'm willing to gamble with the pitching lineup--youth and experience--as long as we don't forget job #1, which is speed and percentage with the rest of the team.

 

While last year ultimately ended better than I thought it would, please don't ever make me have to watch another big-bopper dependent lineup with no speed and prone to streakiness. That was uber-painful.

[NorthSideSox72]

I concur that I'm willing to gamble with the pitching lineup--youth and experience--as long as we don't forget job #1, which is speed and percentage with the rest of the team.

 

While last year ultimately ended better than I thought it would, please don't ever make me have to watch another big-bopper dependent lineup with no speed and prone to streakiness. That was uber-painful.

Speed is not job #1. Its a nice-to-have, all else equal. Pitching, pitching, pitching, OBP, power and defense are all more important.

 

And what do you mean by "percentage with the rest of the team"?

 

[Cowch]

My first thought was Why would you bring him back? But the more I think about it, we need a righty and Colon COULD be good. I'm not a big fan of his last couple of seasons, but if he gets his stuff together I'll be happy with him in the Sox rotation.