Manuel on hot seat

[clujer420]

Manuel gets his ultimatum

 

Williams wants improvement after break

 

By Teddy Greenstein

Tribune staff reporter

 

July 14, 2003, 11:41 PM CDT

 

In his strongest statements yet on manager Jerry Manuel's status, general manager Ken Williams left little doubt Monday that if the White Sox don't improve after the All-Star break, Manuel won't survive the season.

 

Responding to a series of rumors and reports that Manuel could be fired Wednesday or Thursday, Williams said: "I've believed in the talent from Day One. I continue to believe in it. But we'd better get our stuff together and we'd better get it together in a hurry at the start of the second half."

 

The Sox stumbled after reaching the .500 mark with a 12-inning victory against the Twins on July 2.

 

Instead of feasting on American League bottom feeders Tampa Bay, Detroit and Cleveland, the Sox went 3-7 on a trip to finish the first half. They are in second place in the AL Central, seven games behind the Kansas City Royals.

 

"They'd better do the job—otherwise they will have to fit me for a straitjacket by October," Williams said. "I don't want to turn on the playoffs this year and watch from a distance. This was our mind-set from beginning of spring training and that hasn't changed. Hopefully things will work out that way."

 

If they don't?

 

"If we ever decide to do something, there will be an announcement," Williams said. "Other than that, I'm focused on Thursday through the weekend and getting off to a good second half."

 

The Sox won't have any excuses if they falter after the break. They play host to the Tigers (25-67) for four games, followed by a pair with Cleveland (41-53).

 

After a two-game trip to Toronto (49-46), they are host to Tampa Bay (32-60).

 

"I know [the first half] has been frustrating for the fans," Manuel said. "We've had some moments, some good series, but we're looking forward to getting this rolling. Now is the time where the guys should be fresh enough to make a push."

 

If the Sox do replace Manuel, sources say they will consider Jim Fregosi, Terry Francona and Buddy Bell, who managed the Tigers and Rockies.

 

Fregosi replaced Tony La Russa when the Sox fired La Russa during the 1986 season. He also managed the Angels, Phillies and Blue Jays. His career record is 1,028-1,094

 

Francona, Oakland's bench coach, managed in the Sox's minor-league system.

 

Manuel said he's aware of the speculation surrounding his future.

 

"Yeah, I read the newspapers," he said. "I like to know what's going on. Does it affect me? To some degree, yes. But not to the degree that it determines my life or who I am or what I'm about.

 

"I have faith not only in what I'm capable of doing, but in the group of men that I'm trying to lead."

 

As of early Monday afternoon, Manuel said he had not spoken with Williams.

 

"I know he has been a part of the Futures Game and I know he has a lot of things going on here since the All-Star Game is at our home park," Manuel said. "If anything's on his mind, he'll let me know."

 

Manuel was asked if he would be shocked if he were dismissed.

 

"I don't think in those terms," he replied. "So obviously I would be."

 

Copyright © 2003, The Chicago Tribune

 

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Needless to say, if we don't kick some MAJOR ass in the next 2 weeks, JM is gone and so is nearly every high-priced player we have.

 

I sure as f*** hope they are using this time off to get their s*** straightened out.

[The Bones]

It's not Manuel's fault that his batters can't hit a baseball. However, that is how it is in baseball, if a team doesn't perform up to expectations fire the manager. Hopefully they get it going before it comes to that. But, maybe, just maybe, a new manager would give this team the spark it needs. Hopefully Williams going public with these statements does just that.

[Joel]

Why would anyone want those 3 crap coaches. They haven't done anything in the majors. I would rather go after a young assitant coach.

[SI1020]

So Manuel might be the sacrificial lamb, but we're still stuck with KW.

[Iguana]

Good. something needs to light a fire under their asses!

[Guest Ncorgbl]

"If we ever decide to do something, there will be an announcement," Williams said. "Other than that, I'm focused on Thursday through the weekend and getting off to a good second half."

 

How in the world did anyone get an 'ultimatum' from this quote, or any of the quotes there? Williams didn't say anything about anyone losing their job, and in fact said nothing at all, just the Ol' soft shoe.

 

If anything at all can be 'telling' from his quotes it's the use of 'we' rather than 'I', and the words ""If we ever decide to do something...". Are there still those who think Kenny is making any decisions?

[Dick Allen]

If KW is not making decisions, and is such poison to the organization, why is he still here? Is his new position White Sox Press Secretary? I saw him in JR's box a few games ago and Hahn was also there. Hahn was the guy on the phone all game long. KW may not be making decisions, but if he isn't why don't they tell him to stay home? This was the first time, however, that JM's imminent firing wasn't categorially denied, so maybe there is hope that they will tell him to go home and watch his grass grow, and not Roger Bossard's.

[Guest Ncorgbl]

If KW is not making decisions, and is such poison to the organization, why is he still here? Is his new position White Sox Press Secretary? I saw him in JR's box a few games ago and Hahn was also there. Hahn was the guy on the phone all game long. KW may not be making decisions, but if he isn't why don't they tell him to stay home? This was the first time, however, that JM's imminent firing wasn't categorially denied, so maybe there is hope that they will tell him to go home and watch his grass grow, and not Roger Bossard's.

Who said he was poison?

He's here because he hasn't stepped down yet.

No, we have a press secretary.

Had I known you were looking I would've waved.

Rick is a real worker, isn't he?

Ask them.

I don't think so.

[Harry Chappas]

Any loss this weekend that can not be blamed on the failure of one player (i.e. Danny Wright getting shelled, Kock blowing a lead,) and I think he should be gone. This past road trip was a disgrace. I find it hard to believe that KW has no power as he appears to be the one doing all of the talking. JM is showing he has no comprehension on how to manage. He wanted a bat, he got an all-star bat. We need one line-up everyday, it is that easy. No lefty/righty s***, the same guys, the same places. JM is unable to motivate a team on top of everything else.

[Dick Allen]

Who said he was poison?

He's here because he hasn't stepped down yet.

No, we have a press secretary.

Had I known you were looking I would've waved.

Rick is a real worker, isn't he?

Ask them.

I don't think so.

If he is not the GM, or has been relieved of his GM duties, ,or at least not performing the GM duties as you have stated previously, what is it that he is stepping down from? The press secretary comment was sarcastic. It seems since the alleged confrontation with EE, where KW was allegedly stripped of all his power, his presence on the television, radio and newspapers and increased tenfold.

[mreye]

I coming over to the "Fire JM" side of the fence. I'm starting to think that it would be better for the club AND Jerry Manuel.

[SoxRule]

We need one line-up everyday, it is that easy.

I have to disagree with this statement. It is NOT that easy to use one lineup, especially when the guys aren't getting the job done. When you lose game after game, you need to shuffle things around to see if something else will work.

 

The only problem I've got is messing around with what was working, which was having FT play first base. Unless he asked that his time there be reduced, then you can fault Manuel for that. Otherwise, I don't blame him for trying different lineups to see what can right the ship.

 

Think about it.....if he used the same lineup and the Sox lose night after night after night, all of you would be screaming that he should be fired because he's using the same lineup when it's clearly not working.

 

JM is in a no-win situation sometimes.

[mreye]

I have to disagree with this statement.  It is NOT that easy to use one lineup, especially when the guys aren't getting the job done.  When you lose game after game, you need to shuffle things around to see if something else will work. 

 

The only problem I've got is messing around with what was working, which was having FT play first base.  Unless he asked that his time there be reduced, then you can fault Manuel for that.  Otherwise, I don't blame him for trying different lineups to see what can right the ship.

 

Think about it.....if he used the same lineup and the Sox lose night after night after night, all of you would be screaming that he should be fired because he's using the same lineup when it's clearly not working.

 

JM is in a no-win situation sometimes.

Yeah, that would be cool, if when it worked, he'd try it again the next night. A good example would be the double header in Cleveland. PK goes 2-5 with a 3 run HR to win the game in the 1st game - So, JM pinch hits him in the 2nd game. Why? No way did Knerko ask to be kept out! Then he plays again on Sunday and hits well again. I'll bet he'll be benched on Thursday.

 

I understand you have to shake things up if it's not working, but it's not going to work instantly or continuously. Give it 3 or 4 games, then shake it up.

[Tenacious PW]

I think Manuel is a hell of a person, but he is no longer running this team effectively. How are the bats supposed to get going if he keeps changing the lineup everyday. I understand that Rowand is hot right now, but we have an all-star bat in Everett, and a future hall-of-famer in Alomar. They should be staples in the lineuday besides a days rest here and there. Send Rowand down if they want him to get at-bats. This lineup will never gel if Manuel continues to change it. So, if firing him will help that I say do it, But, I also say promote Wally Backman instead of one of these managers who haven't done anything with the teams they have managed in the past.

[Guest Ncorgbl]

Yeah, that would be cool, if when it worked, he'd try it again the next night. A good example would be the double header in Cleveland. PK goes 2-5 with a 3 run HR to win the game in the 1st game - So, JM pinch hits him in the 2nd game. Why? No way did Knerko ask to be kept out! Then he plays again on Sunday and hits well again. I'll bet he'll be benched on Thursday.

 

I understand you have to shake things up if it's not working, but it's not going to work instantly or continuously. Give it 3 or 4 games, then shake it up.

I believe that was because Konerko has been hitting left handed pitching, but still struggles against righties. The thinking being to get him back by putting him in a better position to succeed.

 

Hey, Mreye, where's your eye? Do you want that address for you sig or avatar?

[aboz56]

So Manuel might be the sacrificial lamb, but we're still stuck with KW.

Although most would tend to disagree, I'd prefer to keep KW over Manuel.

[elrockinMT]

I still think that Kenny Williams is the General Manager and makes the decisions, but I also believe that he probably has to go to the boss, just like any employee, when making personnel moves. Jerry Reinsdorf would want to be advised and/or consulted before any spending or player trades are finalized. I also think that KW will have to consult with JR before the manager is canned. I don't understand the arguments and criticism on these issues. There is a boss in any organization and you have to make sure the boss is up on whatever moves you want to make. Mr. Hahn may have been on the phone more than KW, but maybe Hahn is assisting Williams, which is what I think makes sense more than anything, and takes the calls or helps work out the multitude of details that go into any player transaction. Why would anyone havean assistant anyway and then not put the guy to work?

 

As far as Manuel getting canned, well I now believe it is a possibility, but not before the week of July 27th, and then only if the Sox continue to slide. If they start winning or show signs of coming back I think Manuel will stay.

[CubKilla]

Although most would tend to disagree, I'd prefer to keep KW over Manuel.

They both need to go. I'm sick and tired of KW's "blockbusters" that continually blow up in this teams face (K-layton, Ritchie, Jimenez, Botch, etc). I think that it is quite obvious that KW is in way over his head. Not to mention, the jury is still out on Everett and Alomar based, primarily, on who we lost/will lose on those deals and the fact that, at this time, Everett and Alomar haven't contributed one iota to helping this team succeed against bottom feeders (I'll give the KW backers the 3rd TB game as a successful game for both Alomar and Everett).

 

And JM absolutely..... positively..... 100%..... without a shadow of a doubt..... NEEDS TO GO! This team has been a .500 team since the second half of 2000. His constant f***ing around with the line-ups leaves EVERYONE in the clubhouse on edge. Take any Sox player and the questions they must ask themselves everyday. "Am I playing?" "If yes, am I playing where I usually play or am I DH'ing, 1B, or RF?" So much about baseball is mental. JM constantly misuses his BP (see: BOTCH ) and has since his arrival in Chicago as White Sox Manager. True..... as someone has said earlier in another post..... it is the players who play the game, not the manager. But I have a hard time believing JM is not to blame considering this teams track record over the now past 3 SEASONS and, the fact that this supposed "players manager" was voted the 3rd worst IN THE LEAGUE BY THE MLB PLAYER'S ASSOCIATION! Ask yourselves why the players think the opposite of Elia is only slightly worse than the worst?

[Ishmookie]

playoffs or bust

[Iguana]

actually, you all are wrong. JR needs to go.

[Ishmookie]

i hope hes fired

[Dick Allen]

They both need to go. I'm sick and tired of KW's "blockbusters" that continually blow up in this teams face (K-layton, Ritchie, Jimenez, Botch, etc). I think that it is quite obvious that KW is in way over his head. Not to mention, the jury is still out on Everett and Alomar based, primarily, on who we lost/will lose on those deals and the fact that, at this time, Everett and Alomar haven't contributed one iota to helping this team succeed against bottom feeders (I'll give the KW backers the 3rd TB game as a successful game for both Alomar and Everett).

 

And JM absolutely..... positively..... 100%..... without a shadow of a doubt..... NEEDS TO GO!  This team has been a .500 team since the second half of 2000. His constant f***ing around with the line-ups leaves EVERYONE  in the clubhouse on edge. Take any Sox player and the questions they must ask themselves everyday. "Am I playing?" "If yes, am I playing where I usually play or am I DH'ing, 1B, or RF?" So much about baseball is mental. JM constantly misuses his BP (see: BOTCH  ) and has since his arrival in Chicago as White Sox Manager. True..... as someone has said earlier in another post..... it is the players who play the game, not the manager. But I have a hard time believing JM is not to blame considering this teams track record over the now past 3 SEASONS  and, the fact that this supposed "players manager" was voted the 3rd worst IN THE LEAGUE BY THE MLB PLAYER'S ASSOCIATION!  Ask yourselves why the players think the opposite of Elia is only slightly worse than the worst?

I think you can take that survey with a grain of salt, considering most who voted never have played for him. But you are absolutely right, comaball must come to an end. Maybe they could give JM a rocking chair as a parting gift.

[chosk8]

For what it's worth, MLB.com radio has been saying all morning that they believe that a move in regards to Manuel will be made as early as Thursday, depending on hold they come out of the gate in the second half. Obviously, they keep stressing this is only rumor.

[Ishmookie]

manuel makes some of the most stupid moves

[SI1020]

They both need to go. I'm sick and tired of KW's "blockbusters" that continually blow up in this teams face (K-layton, Ritchie, Jimenez, Botch, etc). I think that it is quite obvious that KW is in way over his head. Not to mention, the jury is still out on Everett and Alomar based, primarily, on who we lost/will lose on those deals and the fact that, at this time, Everett and Alomar haven't contributed one iota to helping this team succeed against bottom feeders (I'll give the KW backers the 3rd TB game as a successful game for both Alomar and Everett).

 

And JM absolutely..... positively..... 100%..... without a shadow of a doubt..... NEEDS TO GO!  This team has been a .500 team since the second half of 2000. His constant f***ing around with the line-ups leaves EVERYONE  in the clubhouse on edge. Take any Sox player and the questions they must ask themselves everyday. "Am I playing?" "If yes, am I playing where I usually play or am I DH'ing, 1B, or RF?" So much about baseball is mental. JM constantly misuses his BP (see: BOTCH  ) and has since his arrival in Chicago as White Sox Manager. True..... as someone has said earlier in another post..... it is the players who play the game, not the manager. But I have a hard time believing JM is not to blame considering this teams track record over the now past 3 SEASONS  and, the fact that this supposed "players manager" was voted the 3rd worst IN THE LEAGUE BY THE MLB PLAYER'S ASSOCIATION!  Ask yourselves why the players think the opposite of Elia is only slightly worse than the worst?

Real good thorough analysis of the situation. Great description of KW and his blockbuster deals. Wasn't it King Midas who made everything he touch turn to gold? Everything KW touches turns to s***.