Bonds, Griffey and PEDs

[ptatc]

I think its laughable that people actually think Griffey didn't use PED.

 

Threre've never been rumors and he really doesn't fit the mold so I don't see any reason for it.

Edited January 24, 2009 by ptatc

[Marky Mark]

Threre've never been rumors and he really doesn't fit the mold so I don't see any reason for it.

 

 

I'm not really a big time believer in trying to look at a player from two different periods of time and saying he was not on PED at this point, but because he was all of a sudden hitting for so much more pop here at this other point in time, then he must have been on PED.

 

But I have a difficult time imagining that in a period of time when so many guys are juicing that Griffey could just sit back and enjoy his natural ability to play the game, while others maximize their potential for power by getting these PED.

 

When Bureau was on here he told me that many scouts estimated that 35% of MLB players are using PEDs, but about 70% of the "good" players use PED. That considered, this is supposed to be the post PED era (although it really isn't that much), so if more people used say 10 years ago, its hard to believe that much of anyone didn't use.

 

If everyone's doing it, why bother hold back? When the sin becomes the norm it's no longer a sin.

[witesoxfan]

 

because he so sexy

[lostfan]

I think its laughable that people actually think Griffey didn't use PED.

Silence thy tongue o ye blasphemer lest you face retribution from the divine God of Gods.

[WhiteSoxfan1986]

I disagree. Before he supposedly started the steroids in Toronto, he only had 192 career wins and 2500 k's. He was only 40-39 the 4 years prior to that and looked finished. Then, he goes out and becomes a great pitcher again all of a sudden. His use should have been way more noticeable than even Bonds. He was also not a HOF player before he started using like bonds.

 

Clemens was dominant during his time in Boston. Three Cy Youngs (and he should have won it in 1990) and an MVP.

[lostfan]

Anyway Bonds's numbers with the PED enhancements just simply DESTROY that of any other player short of maybe Babe Ruth to include the better early career numbers of Bonds himself, and although I don't have B-R up at the moment, I'm pretty sure even Ruth's best season isn't even comparable to Bonds's. Griffey never had any spike in performance like that except for the time where he hit 56 homers a couple of years in a row. Instead, even though he stayed pretty well above average as a player, his career numbers started actually going down gradually and his "prime" ended early because he got hurt so much. Even still, if he hadn't spent so much time on the DL and maintained that level of performance, he'd be somewhere around the # of HRs Bonds currently has. And if you put that obvious spike in Griffey's later career numbers and have him looking like the Incredible Hulk, I'm pretty confident he'd have over 800 career HRs now, easily.

 

My whole point, and the reason I even brought Griffey into this in the first place, is to say that if you take away the period of just plain ludicrous numbers from Bonds's stat sheet, his career would have been similar to Griffey's and he'd be of the better players to ever play. IMO he probably will make it to the Hall based on that eventually because unlike, say, McGwire, there is no question of how good of a player he was.

Edited January 24, 2009 by lostfan

[ptatc]

I'm not really a big time believer in trying to look at a player from two different periods of time and saying he was not on PED at this point, but because he was all of a sudden hitting for so much more pop here at this other point in time, then he must have been on PED.

 

But I have a difficult time imagining that in a period of time when so many guys are juicing that Griffey could just sit back and enjoy his natural ability to play the game, while others maximize their potential for power by getting these PED.

 

When Bureau was on here he told me that many scouts estimated that 35% of MLB players are using PEDs, but about 70% of the "good" players use PED. That considered, this is supposed to be the post PED era (although it really isn't that much), so if more people used say 10 years ago, its hard to believe that much of anyone didn't use.

 

If everyone's doing it, why bother hold back? When the sin becomes the norm it's no longer a sin.

 

i don't know for sure but I would disagree. The just because everyone else was doing it arguement isn't one I would go with.

 

In my estimation there were more than 35% of the MLB players on some PED (other thanamphetamines). But whose to know.

 

When determining if someone was on them, I looked at body type, body change and injuries. These are somewhat more quantifiable than performance where players can change. The changes in bonds, McGwire, Giambi, I-Rod etc. were obvious. They abused the heck out of the PEDs. Griffey came up as an 18 y/o and thus should have put on muscle. He never however got the really thick muscluature that you would expect. Now you can lift differently to create a different effect but for baseball that really wouldn't help as much.

The injuries he sustained in his career especially at Cin. would have been less likely if he were on the PED. Many football players take them to recover from injuries quicker. This didn't happen with Griffey. The ijuries that do occur with HGH and the like are more of the tendonitis and such that the McGwire had.

 

So, while it's possible he was on them I don't think that is the case.