Cora sees Fields as a shocker

[caulfield12]

Fields went to Miami to work out with Cora who hit groundballs to him... drilled him in fundamentals... worked on his technique, etc.

 

It would only make the story more perfect if Anderson was there, wouldn't it?

 

The only offseason story I ever remember about him was the fiasco in Venezuela with Razor Shines...or his going out and partying.

 

I guess "cautiously optimistic" is the best phrase to use here. Worse-case scenario, he platoons with Betemit and really builds his confidence up with favorable match-ups (what Ozzie has TRIED to do with BA to limited success).

 

Or perhaps Viciedo takes the position by storm and Fields ends up traded or in Charlotte. Way too early to predict what will happen, injuries, etc.

 

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

Well, what are the options for RF and replacing Dye? A trade. Or moving Quentin and replacing the LFer.

 

In our organization, we're pretty limited. Viciedo, maybe...although 1B/DH is more likely the target destination...depends on his mobility and reads. Then you go down to someone like Shelby, who's far from being anything but a 4th OF/utility infielder (Chone Figgins Lite). Jordan Danks has to be a CFer because it's his natural position and he has limited power at this stage, seemingly precluding corner outfield play.

 

We have a lot more depth at 1B. We have Konerko, Thome (theoretically), Fields, Viciedo and Brandon Allen, not to mention Tyler Flowers possibly profiles for that position as well if catching doesn't work out well enough on the defensive side.

Shelby is nothing like Figgins. If Shelby makes it then I think he is a guy who might put up 15-20 HR's, K 100 times per season, and walk enough to keep his OBP around .330 or so. He's more of a future .270-.2800/.320-.330/.440-.470 guy as a corner OF IMO. He'll steal some bases too, but he's not going to lead the league or anything. An .800 OPS might work for him and keep him as a starter, but it'll have to be in the OF because I imagine that if there was any way for the Sox to keep him at 2B he'd have never moved.

 

Shelby seems kind of like Brewers prospect Lorenzo Cain except Shelby is about a level behind. Figgins OTOH is one of the very few true lead-off men around baseball.

 

Edit: I also disagree on the amount of depth at 1B organizationally. To me it looks like there is zero depth at that position. Flowers is going to stay behind the plate apparently. Allen, isn't he more of a DH candidate than a 1B candidate? If Fields bombs this year then he's out of the organization; if he does well but not well enough he's trade bait IMO; if he does very well then Viciedo goes to RF. Viciedo won't go to 1B any time soon if he can play an OF corner or 3B. Teams generally don't move guys with arms like that to 1B unless they are so committed to not getting in shape that they pretty much have to, ala Miguel Cabrera.

Edited January 29, 2009 by Kenny Hates Prospects

[knightni]

Fields went to Miami to work out with Cora who hit groundballs to him... drilled him in fundamentals... worked on his technique, etc.

And, where's Greg Walker when Fields needs to work on getting the hitch out of his swing?

[scenario]

Then you go down to someone like Shelby, who's far from being anything but a 4th OF/utility infielder (Chone Figgins Lite).

 

In his only two full minor league seasons, Shelby has over a .500 SLG percentage...

 

35 doubles, 9 triples, and 16 homeruns in 2007... mid 800's OPS (488 at-bats)

 

37 doubles, 7 triples, and 15 homeruns in 2008... mid 800's OPS again (447 at-bats).

 

Chone Figgins had a .387 SLG and a total of 18 homeruns in 9 minor league seasons.

 

Totally different style of ballplayers.

Edited January 29, 2009 by scenario

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

In his only two full minor league season, Shelby has over a .500 SLG percentage...

 

35 doubles, 9 triples, and 16 homeruns in 2007... mid 800's OPS (488 at-bats)

 

37 doubles, 7 triples, and 15 homeruns in 2008... mid 800's OPS again (447 at-bats).

That's minor league pitching though. He's a talented guy and one of our best offensive prospects, but it would be asking a hell of a lot for him to SLG .500 in the bigs. Also keep in mind that those numbers came in A ball after spending three years in college.

[scenario]

That's minor league pitching though. He's a talented guy and one of our best offensive prospects, but it would be asking a hell of a lot for him to SLG .500 in the bigs. Also keep in mind that those numbers came in A ball after spending three years in college.

 

The point was and still is that Shelby and Figgins are not even remotely similar ballplayers.

 

Shelby has speed and power. He's more of a Soriano-lite not a Figgins-lite.

 

 

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

The point was and still is that Shelby and Figgins are not even remotely similar ballplayers.

 

Shelby has speed and power. He's more of a Soriano-lite not a Figgins-lite.

Ah, I see, and agree. Soriano-lite might not be a bad comparison actually. I thought about that one before making the Lorenzo Cain comparison but I've never heard anything about Shelby being so bad in the outfield. But yeah, Soriano with better defense, a lesser arm, and not as much power. Also, from the little I've seen of Shelby he appears to be more of the smarter, "baseball player" type than Soriano.

[scenario]

Offensively, Shelby was ready to move up to AA at mid-season, but the Sox kept him in Winston-Salem to work on his defense.

 

The organization decided going into '08 that he was going to stick in the outfield rather than 2B.

 

He's not a butcher in left by any means but he's still relatively new to the outfield and needs work on his technique and routes.

 

It'll be really interesting to see how he does in Birmingham this year.

 

 

BTW, for what it's worth... in a year-end poll of coaches in the Carolina League, Shelby was selected 'the most exciting offensive player' in the league.

Edited January 29, 2009 by scenario

[macsandz]

Im sorry but 2 weeks of training isnt going to drastically improve your defense.

 

 

Yes it can. With the right instruction, one day can make all the difference once you get the footwork right. It becomes about repetition. As a corner IF position, there are only so many hops a baseball can take at 3B and stay fair. You just have to learn how to anticipate off the bat. Confidence is EVERYTHING and it sounds like he's getting it. Good for him and the Sox.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

Offensively, Shelby was ready to move up to AA at mid-season, but the Sox kept him in Winston-Salem to work on his defense.

 

The organization decided going into '08 that he was going to stick in the outfield rather than 2B.

 

He's not a butcher in left by any means but he's still relatively new to the outfield and needs work on his technique and routes.

 

It'll be really interesting to see how he does in Birmingham this year.

Birmingham is going to awesome this year, at least by traditional Sox standards.

 

Allen, Beckham, Flowers, and Shelby should all make AA out of ST, plus Anthony Carter, CJ Retherford, John Ely, and Jake Rasner among others provide something else to watch, Retherford in particular.

[Greg Hibbard]

Haha. I'm glad I'm not the only person who thought of that when I saw the title

 

Edited January 29, 2009 by Greg Hibbard

[greg775]

There's no substitute for hard work and he apparently is putting it in.

On the flip side you always hear about guys showing improvement when the bright lights aren't on. Sometimes you either can do it or you can't. I can't imagine Josh improving that much as a fielder as this stage of his life.

Hope he proves me wrong.

[caulfield12]

Ah, I see, and agree. Soriano-lite might not be a bad comparison actually. I thought about that one before making the Lorenzo Cain comparison but I've never heard anything about Shelby being so bad in the outfield. But yeah, Soriano with better defense, a lesser arm, and not as much power. Also, from the little I've seen of Shelby he appears to be more of the smarter, "baseball player" type than Soriano.

 

 

I was referring more to his versatility (in terms of playing all over the field, but even being an average defender at any of them) rather than his speed/power combination.

 

To compare him with Soriano is a bit much....maybe Bill Hall would be more appropriate. I just can't imagine what starting position he would be able to hold down on the White Sox two years from. He's got some power and speed, but doesn't project as a corner player. So that leaves CF, SS and 2B, and he's definitely not going to be playing SS with us.

 

I would be surprised if he had the same impact at the big league level his father had...maybe, but I'm not counting on it.

 

This year will be a big season for him, as a college player, you expect him to do well in the low minors and move more quickly than just one level per season...college players SHOULD take no more than 2-3 years to get to the majors, high school players usually 3-5.

 

I'm not saying he's going to be worse than Jerry Owens or anything like that, but the Soriano comparison raised my eyebrows.

[scenario]

I was referring more to his versatility (in terms of playing all over the field, but even being an average defender at any of them) rather than his speed/power combination.

 

To compare him with Soriano is a bit much....maybe Bill Hall would be more appropriate. I just can't imagine what starting position he would be able to hold down on the White Sox two years from. He's got some power and speed, but doesn't project as a corner player. So that leaves CF, SS and 2B, and he's definitely not going to be playing SS with us.

 

I'm not saying he's going to be worse than Jerry Owens or anything like that, but the Soriano comparison raised my eyebrows.

 

Keep an eye on him.

 

I believe he's better than you seem to think he is.

 

I think he could be our left-fielder a couple of years from now.

 

(And the suggestion was not that he would be Soriano... the comment was 'Soriano lite'... which could mean a Bill Hall type player.)

Edited January 29, 2009 by scenario

[iamshack]

Bottom line, it's good that we have some exciting players in our system now. I've learned enough not to latch on to too many of these guys because of Kenny's penchant to send them elsewhere, but nevertheless, we are leaps and bounds ahead of where we were just a year ago in terms of having talent in our system. And all without the big league squad suffering too much for it.

 

Another bow to my hero, KW.

[GoodAsGould]

Keep an eye on him.

 

I believe he's better than you seem to think he is.

 

I think he could be our left-fielder a couple of years from now.

 

(And the suggestion was not that he would be Soriano... the comment was 'Soriano lite'... which could mean a Bill Hall type player.)

 

Besides Beckham and Danks, without a doubt Shelby is the hitting prospect Im most excited for. Not really in the Brandon Allen camp as of yet.

[bighurt4life]

Prior to Fields's knee injury he was at best below average at 3rd base. One would not expect 3 weeks to make a huge difference on its own barring some major technical issue he was missing. But it can't hurt. And while he's probably not going to develop in to an all time great, it is entirely possible for people to improve on defense given time, good coaching, practice, and repetition. Joe Crede was no where near the defender in 2001 that he was in say, 2006.

 

Josh Fields certainly had an issue hitting good MLB fastballs when he was up in 2006. But based on raw talent alone, he was able to pound the offspeed stuff enough to put up quality numbers; 23 home runs and 67 RBI on a terrible team in 2/3 of a season. He clearly does need to improve against that pitch, and if he does not he will not last in the league...but that is again a mechanical issue, that may be correctable.

 

 

I recall reading an article a couple years ago that said when Fields got into the Sox system he was so bad defensively that they thought he was a sure fire DH, that he would never be good enough to stick at any position in the majors. They started working with him and he rapidly improved enough that he can play at least a passable 3rd. He's still young and is a good athlete and has room to improve. Based on how much he's already improved I don't see any reason that he can't play an average 3rd with some hard work on his fundamentals.

[lostfan]

You guys follow Fields more than I do. I got a question for you. Prior to his knee problems, was he good defensively or bad?

 

If he was bad, I do not think 3 weeks with Cora would make a big difference.

 

I have read he can not hit fastballs. You can not play in MLB if you can not hit the heat.

 

Just remember, you are what you are. Players do not change much.

He was inconsistent, he has raw athletic ability and he made some great plays, but he made a LOT of errors and blew some pretty routine plays that even I could've made. In his rookie season, overall his defense was pretty bad, or below average as Balta said. I don't ever see him being a Gold Glover but some of his problems are correctable, I could see him becoming an average or above-average defender.

Edited January 29, 2009 by lostfan

[NorthSideSox72]

I actually feel pretty good about 3B. I think the chances of either Fields or Viciedo (or both) flourishing are very high, like 90%+.

 

For that matter, I think that the chances are almost as good for Getz or Lillibridge (or both) to do well at 2B.

 

The back end of the rotation is really the big scary monster with this team, IMO. Then to a lesser extent, CF, and then backup C. The rest of the team looks pretty solid to me.

 

[Harry Chappas]

Ron Santo could not carry Brooks Robinson's jockstrap. He does not belong in the same sentence...and I saw them both play. Santo was good. Less range than Crede but also less mistakes. Robinson was in a different universe.

 

Instead of green I thought the "dare say" part made it obvious.

[RockRaines]

I actually feel pretty good about 3B. I think the chances of either Fields or Viciedo (or both) flourishing are very high, like 90%+.

 

For that matter, I think that the chances are almost as good for Getz or Lillibridge (or both) to do well at 2B.

 

The back end of the rotation is really the big scary monster with this team, IMO. Then to a lesser extent, CF, and then backup C. The rest of the team looks pretty solid to me.

I have zero concerns about Getz hitting at the major league level, I also feel the same about Lillibridge's defense at the MLB level.

[Cubano]

One thing I do not like about USA baseball is the following. This is the year for Fields because he has been in the organization for a while. The White Sox has invested money and time on him. Therefore, it is time for some return in their investment. Having said this, Fields will be given the first shot at 3B and Cora is already echoing this. Viciedo just came into the organization this year and the White Sox have time to send him down. I hope he makes the team even though he is not a starter. If both have similar ST, Fields will be the starter.

[lostfan]

One thing I do not like about USA baseball is the following. This is the year for Fields because he has been in the organization for a while. The White Sox has invested money and time on him. Therefore, it is time for some return in their investment. Having said this, Fields will be given the first shot at 3B and Cora is already echoing this. Viciedo just came into the organization this year and the White Sox have time to send him down. I hope he makes the team even though he is not a starter. If both have similar ST, Fields will be the starter.

Well Fields was already "the guy" at 3B before Viciedo got here, Viciedo would have to actively prove that he is better than Fields in order to take over his spot (Quentin did this, and in spades). At the end of the day, if Viciedo shows he belongs at the MLB level, he'll get playing time. But he's 19 (or is he 20 now?), and he'll have to wait his turn, it's rare enough that guys get a crack at MLB at that age as is. Fields had that happen to him too, it sucks for guys to get blocked by a MLB player but that's just the way the cookie crumbles.

[bmags]

Even so, cubano, given the age of Viciedo and whirlwind, I don't know how good of an idea it is to depend on him so early to be our starting third baseman.

[elrockinMT]

I think through this particular subejct and the responses I have figured out the problem not only with Fields but with the Sox defensive shortcomings as a whole....

 

It is Joey Cora. Time to bash him now instead of us Crede supporters

Edited January 29, 2009 by elrockinMT