southsideirish71 Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 (edited) Guillen's biggest flaw is trying to take platoon type players and fast guys who can't hit and make them into full time starters. There is no reason that Wise should be anything but a 4th OF. Of course we flash back to last year, and Quentin was the 4th OF, and Owens was our leadoff hitter in ST. Hopefully it sorts itself out. But Wise over the course of the year leading off = epic fail. Edited January 30, 2009 by southsideirish71 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jan 30, 2009 -> 12:23 PM) The problem with measuring BA's statistics is they were almost always put up against the most favorable match-ups possible....whereas Mackowiak faced a steadier diet of top pitching. I know that BA somehow managed to hit two dingers off Felix Hernandez, but typically he gets owned by dominant/ace-caliber pitchers. Who the hell doesn't? That's why they are called "dominant/ace-caliber pitchers." Hell look at the OPS of this lineup vs. Johan Santana. It's pretty sad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco72 Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 QUOTE (southsideirish71 @ Jan 30, 2009 -> 12:28 PM) Guillen's biggest flaw is trying to take platoon type players and fast guys who can't hit and make them into full time starters. There is no reason that Wise should be anything but a 4th OF. Of course we flash back to last year, and Quentin was the 4th OF, and Owens was our leadoff hitter in ST. Hopefully it sorts itself out. But Wise over the course of the year leading off = epic fail. I fully expect there to be a legit competition in ST for 2B and CF (and 3B if Viciedo hits). If Lillibridge and Getz show they can be good OBP guys in ST, I doubt Wise is leading off for the Sox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox_Sonix Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jan 30, 2009 -> 12:23 PM) The problem with measuring BA's statistics is they were almost always put up against the most favorable match-ups possible....whereas Mackowiak faced a steadier diet of top pitching. If you want to use that argument, then on the other side of the argument I could say that the lack of any semblance of regular AB's since 2006 definitely has not helped him out any Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 QUOTE (Disco72 @ Jan 30, 2009 -> 09:36 AM) I fully expect there to be a legit competition in ST for 2B and CF (and 3B if Viciedo hits). If Lillibridge and Getz show they can be good OBP guys in ST, I doubt Wise is leading off for the Sox. Getz and Lillibridge and Owens could all put up .150 OBP's in ST and I still wouldn't want Wise leading off/playing every day/playing every other day as a platoon guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan562004 Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 Owens and Wise? You have to be kidding me. That is an absolute joke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 Wise as a starter? Is that a joke? I was figuring it would be an Owens/Anderson contest for CF. I cannot believe we are talking about Wise as a potential starter. I don't even think he's a good 4th OF - I'd rather give Cook a shot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco72 Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 30, 2009 -> 12:44 PM) Getz and Lillibridge and Owens could all put up .150 OBP's in ST and I still wouldn't want Wise leading off/playing every day/playing every other day as a platoon guy. I completely agree, but I also believe that Getz and/or Lillibridge (plus Anderson and Owens) will perform to the level that we won't have to worry about the apocolypse that is Wise as an everyday starter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FranktheTank35 Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 (edited) I think we are going to be so awful this year.. ugh. Edited January 30, 2009 by FranktheTank35 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daa84 Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 (edited) the best thing for this team may be to have alexei in CF, and lillibridge at SS.....that way we dont have to deal with owens, wise... ozzie gets his fast leadoff hitter, and we get a good SS...whereas defensive metrics would suggest alexei is not a real good IFer....though a big question would be how well defensively Alexei would do in CF Edited January 30, 2009 by daa84 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubba Philips Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 QUOTE (daa84 @ Jan 30, 2009 -> 12:34 PM) the best thing for this team may be to have alexei in CF, and lillibridge at SS.....that way we dont have to deal with owens, wise... ozzie gets his fast leadoff hitter, and we get a good SS...whereas defensive metrics would suggest alexei is not a real good IFer....though a big question would be how well defensively Alexei would do in CF Not one mention of Betemit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daa84 Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 QUOTE (forrestg @ Jan 30, 2009 -> 01:53 PM) Not one mention of Betemit? to play where SS? I don't think betemit is a viable option to play SS everyday defensively, it would be nice if he was though. I guess I just assumed that Betemit is going to serve as the Alex Cintron role on this team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 QUOTE (daa84 @ Jan 30, 2009 -> 01:03 PM) to play where SS? I don't think betemit is a viable option to play SS everyday defensively, it would be nice if he was though. I guess I just assumed that Betemit is going to serve as the Alex Cintron role on this team. he's going to be a sunday lineup fixture. Giving the guys a day off and providing some pop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
watchtower41 Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Jan 30, 2009 -> 11:52 AM) Wise as a starter? Is that a joke? I was figuring it would be an Owens/Anderson contest for CF. I cannot believe we are talking about Wise as a potential starter. I don't even think he's a good 4th OF - I'd rather give Cook a shot. Actually he was one helluva 4th OF for us last year, if you can remember he was one of the main spark plugs that delivered us a AL Central Crown last year after CQ went down. I'd be one to think that Wise is oozing with confidence right now that he can fit in with this team, we already know he has a better bat than Owens. Expecting more in the starting CF/Lead-off position is one thing, but to think Wise is completely useless on this team in nuts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joejoesox Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 slightly off topic, any reason why i can't purchase the spring training mlb.com package? it's saying i already purchased an equivalent package i bought the package last year along with the regular season package, but that should be reset since this is a new year right? my credit card hasn't been automatically billed for this season yet either, so it's not like they already auto-charged me for this season Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish71 Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (watchtower41 @ Jan 30, 2009 -> 01:08 PM) Actually he was one helluva 4th OF for us last year, if you can remember he was one of the main spark plugs that delivered us a AL Central Crown last year after CQ went down. I'd be one to think that Wise is oozing with confidence right now that he can fit in with this team, we already know he has a better bat than Owens. Expecting more in the starting CF/Lead-off position is one thing, but to think Wise is completely useless on this team in nuts. He hit .206, with a .271 OBP and a .700 OPS in September with terrible defense. He had a couple of good games, and based on the tallest midget theory he was better than the options we had. I would hardly use that to reward for a starting spot. He should be the 25th man on a medicore team. He is not a starter. Hopefully he doesn't buy his baseball card, or his oozing with confidence might come back to reality. Edited January 30, 2009 by southsideirish71 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 QUOTE (watchtower41 @ Jan 30, 2009 -> 01:08 PM) Actually he was one helluva 4th OF for us last year, if you can remember he was one of the main spark plugs that delivered us a AL Central Crown last year after CQ went down. I'd be one to think that Wise is oozing with confidence right now that he can fit in with this team, we already know he has a better bat than Owens. Expecting more in the starting CF/Lead-off position is one thing, but to think Wise is completely useless on this team in nuts. Owens is better both offensively and defensively than Wise. The only thing Wise has is a better arm, and not by much. Owens will get on base a lot more often, which is key for our CF and for this team. He has serious speed, much more than Wise. Owens, arm aside, is a decent defensive OF (not great by any means, but average), whereas Wise struggles on the corners and would be a disaster in CF. And Owens has shown he improves at each level, whereas Wise has proven over the years in the majors that he isn't getting better. Wise has no place on this team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 QUOTE (watchtower41 @ Jan 30, 2009 -> 02:08 PM) Actually he was one helluva 4th OF for us last year, if you can remember he was one of the main spark plugs that delivered us a AL Central Crown last year after CQ went down. I'd be one to think that Wise is oozing with confidence right now that he can fit in with this team, we already know he has a better bat than Owens. Expecting more in the starting CF/Lead-off position is one thing, but to think Wise is completely useless on this team in nuts. He's a career minor leaguer whose bat got hot for a while at a convenient time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 Give me Wise over Owens...he's a more dangerous hitter, a better bunter, and a better base runner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
watchtower41 Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 QUOTE (lostfan @ Jan 30, 2009 -> 01:27 PM) He's a career minor leaguer whose bat got hot for a while at a convenient time. Convenient?? I didnt know pennant chases were convenient. Nobody on our team was hitting after CQ's dumbass injury except for Wise. I'm not saying he is the fastest foot for CF. But at least he is an veteran that understands and knows how to play the game. He is a baseball player, something Owens clearly is not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daa84 Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 QUOTE (watchtower41 @ Jan 30, 2009 -> 02:36 PM) Convenient?? I didnt know pennant chases were convenient. Nobody on our team was hitting after CQ's dumbass injury except for Wise. I'm not saying he is the fastest foot for CF. But at least he is an veteran that understands and knows how to play the game. He is a baseball player, something Owens clearly is not. actually i think a guy getting hot during a pennant race is the exact definition of covenient Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish71 Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 QUOTE (fathom @ Jan 30, 2009 -> 01:33 PM) Give me Wise over Owens...he's a more dangerous hitter, a better bunter, and a better base runner. How about they both suck and lets go with option C.) none of the above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 QUOTE (watchtower41 @ Jan 30, 2009 -> 02:36 PM) Convenient?? I didnt know pennant chases were convenient. Nobody on our team was hitting after CQ's dumbass injury except for Wise. I'm not saying he is the fastest foot for CF. But at least he is an veteran that understands and knows how to play the game. He is a baseball player, something Owens clearly is not. The fact that his hot streak came during a pennant chase was extremely convenient. Which I was happy about by the way. Wise is just plain not good... 2008 had to be a magic carpet ride for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 QUOTE (daa84 @ Jan 30, 2009 -> 02:38 PM) actually i think a guy getting hot during a pennant race is the exact definition of covenient Winner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBlackSox8 Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (fathom @ Jan 30, 2009 -> 01:33 PM) Give me Wise over Owens...he's a more dangerous hitter, a better bunter, and a better base runner. Is there some way we can morph Owens into Wise. Wise's better power, with Owens OBP and speed. Edited January 30, 2009 by onedude Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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