Cowch Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 Oh gag, pick your poison. At least there's some good news on Dayan to make this thread make me a little happier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodAsGould Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jan 30, 2009 -> 03:19 PM) Q and Dye both below avg? Dye may be close to that, but Q is avg to above avg in LF. He's always been graded out as a good defender his entire career. Quentin might be above avg in RF, but he was pretty brutal in LF last season and you watched it was very obvious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 QUOTE (watchtower41 @ Jan 30, 2009 -> 02:07 PM) That what the media was told to spin. Insiders will tell you much different. I wouldn't think so. The only way to fracture the bone he did is by hitting it with his palm. So, unless he commonly punches lockers or whatever else with his palm, I would say the video of him hitting his bat with his palm is pretty accurrate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jan 30, 2009 -> 03:19 PM) Q and Dye both below avg? Dye may be close to that, but Q is avg to above avg in LF. He's always been graded out as a good defender his entire career. Yeah, he's always graded out well in rightfield (he was rated as a plus defender when we acquired him) but that's not the position he played last season. It's been pretty close to a consensus on here that Quentin was just bad in left last season. I love Quentin as much as anyone but even I can admit that he didn't take to the position change. And pretty much every metric had Jermaine Dye one of the worst rightfielders/outfielders in the game last season. Also add in Dye's lackluster arm which has been rated in the bottom half of the league for 3 straight years now and you have a well below average defender. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan101 Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 Even if Wise's name weren't in Ozzie's leadoff comment, i'd still HATE the idea. A platoon at leadoff really doesn't sit well with me, messes with the lineup chemistry in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenksycat Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 QUOTE (watchtower41 @ Jan 30, 2009 -> 02:41 PM) We didn't win any of the Twins games, but I hear ya there... Wise has always been the reason why we couldn't win in the Hump Dome. I also find it funny that the Sox would rather trot out this " $200K 30 year old minor league journey-man" everyday in the middle of a heated pennant race over the savior in waiting, Nick the Swisher. Hell, even Ozzie can admit Swish would be a much better defensive option than Wise... yet there was no playing time to be found for Nicky in September. BA wasn't an option because we all know that Ozzie absolutely refused to put him in Left. People are b****ing about Wise's OBP, did Owens have anything above that all year until very late in Charlotte? The Sox sure were anxious to get him up here. I'll take a veteran that knows the game over a young hack that is digressing and would not even have had a shot in this league if it wasn't for his legs. honestly don't even know what the hell you are rambling on about. The fact is: Wise did not win the f***ing division for the White Sox. Outside of a couple home runs, he did absolutely, positively, nothing defensively or offensively. What won the division: Danks, Floyd, Liney, Jenks, Q, Alexi, Dye, AJP, and bits and pieces from everyone else. Its one thing to say he was better than Swisher or that BA is in the forever OZ-house, but to say that he won the division for us is plain stupid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBigHurt Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 Wow, I heard Owens as a possibility and that just makes me sick and I feel I have to look at this offseason as a failure overall. Seriously, on paper this team would look absolutely terrible on paper without Quentin and Alexei, and even with them it's laughable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny Hates Prospects Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 Owens has no business in Major League Baseball and Wise, although better than Owens, is a 4th OF at best. Newsflash to Ozzie: neither Owens or Wise will get on base. Anderson won't either but he is on your f***ing team and he's at least capable of providing excellent D with some pop. It is better to have no lead-off man at all than to have Jerry Owens or Dewayne Wise starting anywhere on this team. Damn it to hell Ozzie, cut the s*** and admit you have no idea what the f*** you are doing when it comes to making out a lineup and implementing a philosophy. You talk about OBP being important out of the 1 slot yet you favor the two worst guys on the team for that role. You say you want pitching and defense, yet in order to fit your s***ty speed players in CF you have to sacrifice defense up the middle which only makes the pitching staff have to work harder. Ozzie Guillen's obsession with lead-off men who can't lead-off is positively disturbing. It's like a video game or something where the computer will formulate some BS roster for the opposition and somehow Kevin Millar is playing SS, and when you see it you don't even want to play the game anymore because you just can't get over how unrealistic it is. But that's Ozzie. Sure, let's put Owens in CF! That'll work! In real life Jerry Owens does not make 25-man rosters, let alone start for a large market team. Please, please, please KW... your offseason so far has sucked ass and the least you can do to make amends is clear out this trash. Waive Owens, waive Broadway, get this s*** off the roster already. I'm sick of Ozzie complimenting it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonxctf Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 boy i can't wait to read all of the "i knew Jerry Owens was good" comments on the board, when he hits .280 with a .345 OBP and 50SB next year if he wins the starting job. those numbers, by the way, are basically his 2nd half 2007 numbers factored out for an entire year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 QUOTE (jasonxctf @ Jan 30, 2009 -> 04:33 PM) boy i can't wait to read all of the "i knew Jerry Owens was good" comments on the board, when he hits .280 with a .345 OBP and 50SB next year if he wins the starting job. those numbers, by the way, are basically his 2nd half 2007 numbers factored out for an entire year. I would really take that from Owens, as long as he's only CS like 10-12 times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GREEDY Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (jasonxctf @ Jan 30, 2009 -> 06:33 PM) boy i can't wait to read all of the "i knew Jerry Owens was good" comments on the board, when he hits .280 with a .345 OBP and 50SB next year if he wins the starting job. those numbers, by the way, are basically his 2nd half 2007 numbers factored out for an entire year. I think most people's problem with Owens is his defense. Jesse Owens also f***ing fast, BAD in CF. Edited January 31, 2009 by GREEDY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 QUOTE (GREEDY @ Jan 30, 2009 -> 08:35 PM) I think most people's problem with Owens is his defense. Jesse Owens also f***ing fast, BAD in CF. I personally think he gets slammed here far, far, far more than his play justifies. He does have a noodle arm. But his glove and footwork, his jumps and reads, as 2007 progressed, had all gotten pretty decent. People are just so up in arms about him maybe starting that they allow his arm to color their perception of everything else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottyDo Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 Oh great, the sky is falling again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scenario Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Jan 30, 2009 -> 08:38 PM) I personally think he gets slammed here far, far, far more than his play justifies. He does have a noodle arm. But his glove and footwork, his jumps and reads, as 2007 progressed, had all gotten pretty decent. People are just so up in arms about him maybe starting that they allow his arm to color their perception of everything else. And most of what people remember about his arm comes from 2007... when he got promoted right after having a serious collision with a wall in AAA... on his throwing shoulder. His arm is not as bad as what people saw/remember from that summer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 QUOTE (GREEDY @ Jan 30, 2009 -> 06:35 PM) I think most people's problem with Owens is his defense. Jesse Owens also f***ing fast, BAD in CF. So his age, injuries, lack of gap or HR power, being on the roster and being an actual candidate to become a starter mean nothing ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 QUOTE (jasonxctf @ Jan 30, 2009 -> 04:33 PM) boy i can't wait to read all of the "i knew Jerry Owens was good" comments on the board, when he hits .280 with a .345 OBP and 50SB next year if he wins the starting job. those numbers, by the way, are basically his 2nd half 2007 numbers factored out for an entire year. I will never say that because he will never do that for a full season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 QUOTE (ScottyDo @ Jan 30, 2009 -> 08:39 PM) Oh great, the sky is falling again. It does every year at this time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonxctf Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Jan 31, 2009 -> 04:31 AM) So his age, injuries, lack of gap or HR power, being on the roster and being an actual candidate to become a starter mean nothing ? jesus do we need 20HR hitters at every position? this team has plenty of power already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzie Ball Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 QUOTE (jasonxctf @ Jan 31, 2009 -> 12:33 AM) boy i can't wait to read all of the "i knew Jerry Owens was good" comments on the board, when he hits .280 with a .345 OBP and 50SB next year if he wins the starting job. those numbers, by the way, are basically his 2nd half 2007 numbers factored out for an entire year. Would that really be considered good though? .345 OBP, .350 SLG (if we're lucky), that would be good for Owens but it's still not a good player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 QUOTE (Ozzie Ball @ Jan 30, 2009 -> 11:32 PM) Would that really be considered good though? .345 OBP, .350 SLG (if we're lucky), that would be good for Owens but it's still not a good player. That's plenty fine actually, for most teams. Jesus. Who do you want there instead? Curtis Granderson? Hanley Ramirez? So do I. Where do you suggest KW finds one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 QUOTE (lostfan @ Jan 31, 2009 -> 01:51 AM) That's plenty fine actually, for most teams. Jesus. Who do you want there instead? Curtis Granderson? Hanley Ramirez? So do I. Where do you suggest KW finds one? And let's also remember that every realistic (and better) leadoff/CF option (Figgins, Taveras before he ended up with the Reds, ect) was slammed time and time again by the exact same people that loathe Jerry Owens. Basically, it's going to take a combination of prime Mays/Mantle/Griffey in CF before the whining stops. And even that might not be enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 Honestly if Lillibridge leads-off then a s***load of people will be happy particularly considering what he brings. (speed, OBP, [OPS also for those OPS lovers at the lead-off] some pop, great defense, though probably won't hit much for average) But of course that means he has to either win the 2B job (he probably won't get SS even though he is the superior defenser to the Cuban Missle, maybe just on days off perhaps and I just don't Getz as a lead-off hitter, excellent #2 hitter though but as of right now Ozzie has him at 9th) or CF (wide open competition even though most would love to see BA win it especially considering JD's declining defense is still out in RF and Ozzie isn't wise enough to switch the younger, faster, better D CQ in RF and JD in LF) If Alex's boy wins the job, then unless he completely sucks ass in the bigs, most will be preety happy, thus ending the conversation about the lead-off hitter for a while. (maybe not the bashing of the players, KW, or Ozzie/the coaches, not named Cooper, but the lead-off nonetheless) I personally don't mind Owens at all, but I would rather see him out there if he really brings that spark/tablesetter/OBP that we need OR if it's absolutely nessesary. [ala like if we trade Dye for other needs] If he hits like he did in single A for us [would cream my pants if he had his AA numbers translate here]) then we'll be in good shape regardless of his arm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cali Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 Speaking of weight, I'm sure this is just a bad angle, but jeez does Danks look a little hefty: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G&T Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 QUOTE (Cali @ Jan 31, 2009 -> 04:19 AM) Speaking of weight, I'm sure this is just a bad angle, but jeez does Danks look a little hefty: He put on 15 pounds of muscle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 QUOTE (jasonxctf @ Jan 30, 2009 -> 10:08 PM) jesus do we need 20HR hitters at every position? this team has plenty of power already. what's wrong with that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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