Rex Hudler Posted July 16, 2003 Share Posted July 16, 2003 I have no idea why they wouldn't hire Backman, unless they don't want to go with an inexperienced manager at the major league level. Well, that or these rumors are off and Backman really is the main candidate. Backman is not a KW guy. He and KW would not mix well at all. I would be surprised to see Backman hired if KW is indeed in charge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted July 16, 2003 Share Posted July 16, 2003 you are basing it on their playing records with the Phils, Tigers and Rockies, three of the worse teams over the past decade? I think we have to at least find out more about them before we start judging them. anyway, a change is needed, and like I said, this team is good enough to win on its own, it simply needs a manager who can fuel this team and keep their intensity and focus at a high level. Francona was considered a very good manager working for a really bad team. The Phillies have improved under Bowa, but they have also spent a ton more money for better players, as well as having players that were very young under Francona or still in the minors, develop into solid players. Francona is a players manager in that he expects them to do their jobs and lets them do it. He is not "fiery" but nowhere near laid back. He will not be afraid to call a guy out if needed, but will generally do it behind closed doors and not in the media or in front of other players. He was in the White Sox system as the Barons manager from 93-95. He was seriously considered for at least two managerial openings before this season but a serious illness killed his chances in the process. Serious enough that he almost died, from what I read. Here is a little on him from a Seattle paper when he was considered for the Mariners opening this year... In fact, Francona had a rap in Philadelphia of being too nice, too much of a players' manager. The Phillies improved their record in each of his first three seasons, but he was fired after a disastrous 2000. Ace Curt Schilling was injured early in the season and eventually traded to Arizona; Andy Ashby, a key winter acquisition, pitched poorly and was traded also, to Atlanta; and Mike Jackson, signed to be their closer, never threw a pitch because of an injury. The Phillies went 65-97. Francona nearly was hired by Arizona in 2001, finishing as runner-up to Bob Brenly, and interviewed this winter with the Rangers and Mets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted July 16, 2003 Share Posted July 16, 2003 More on Francona..... excerpt from full story below the link..... Francona Has A Zest For Life In Philadelphia, Francona managed a lot of unproven young talent in the beginning of a rebuilding stage, and it resulted in four consecutive losing seasons and a .440 winning percentage. "Tito was just in an unfortunate situation with what he had to work with," said Mike Lieberthal, one of the few remaining Phillies from the Francona era. Lieberthal loved playing for Francona. "Francona was awesome," the catcher said. "He's definitely a players' manager. He was great with not only younger players, but definitely veterans." Even Bobby Abreu, who was benched by Francona for two days for showing up late for a game in 2000, has fond memories of his former skipper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted July 16, 2003 Share Posted July 16, 2003 Another good tidbit about managers...... Chances are, in fact, that is precisely the case. The list of managers who floundered early in their careers — only to eventually thrive when they reached the magical nexus of opportunity, experience and talent — includes Whitey Herzog, Jim Leyland, and, most recently, Joe Torre. Here, however, are the blunt numbers, in black and white, without regard to payroll, talent level, front-office support and other factors that often conspire to sabotage perfectly good baseball men. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 16, 2003 Author Share Posted July 16, 2003 I almost forgot the funniest part of the whole interview. MacNeal asks JR who his favorite player on the Sox was. JR responded with "Tony Graffanino" Quickly Harry chimes in "Is it because he is cheap?" It was classic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ncorgbl Posted July 16, 2003 Share Posted July 16, 2003 Reinsdorf was on AM1000 just a second ago, and was asked about Kenny Williams statements that implied JM was on the hot seat. He made it very clear, that isn't how those statements should be taken. He offered a couple of other lame possible explanations, but made it clear that Jerry wasn't going anywhere. Does anyone think that Kenny was speaking out of turn again? On orders from headquarters; ================== From Today's Sun-Times GM Williams backs Manuel July 16, 2003 BY DOUG PADILLA Staff Reporter White Sox officials were upset Tuesday over a newspaper report that indicated manager Jerry Manuel was given an ultimatum. General manager Ken Williams said the report did not represent what he was talking about when he was approached by two local reporters Monday. The author of the report in question was not one of the two reporters present. Williams said Manuel has not been told that he must get the team to perform better or face the unemployment line. ''I first was asked about Jerry's status, and I said that I was not going to discuss it,'' Williams said. ''Second, I was asked about the team in the second half. That is what I discussed. That is what is out there [in the report] as an ultimatum.'' Manuel has been rumored to be on the hot seat again after the Sox went 3-7 on a road trip against three sub-.500 teams. The low point was a three-game sweep by the struggling Detroit Tigers. Some reports have said Manuel will be dismissed as early as today. Williams said this spring that he takes all criticism of Manuel as a criticism of his own job performance because he puts together the roster. Manuel continually talks about his open dialogue with Williams and said Monday that his job status has not been discussed. After setting the record straight Tuesday, Williams said he wants to distance himself from the issue. ''It's been taken out of context, but it's not the first time and it won't be the last,'' Williams said. ''I have bigger things I need to worry about. I want to put this behind us.'' A Sox official said Tuesday that the team would cut payroll via trades before firing the manager. And with the recent acquisitions of Carl Everett and Roberto Alomar, a fire sale isn't likely to happen soon. Despite the rough road trip, the Sox (45-49) are encouraged by the relatively weak American League Central. They moved into second place with a victory Sunday and are seven games behind the Kansas City Royals, whom they play 13 more times this season. ''We only have one team in front of us,'' Manuel said. ''It's not like we have to leapfrog. We have to hone in on them and go after it.'' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CubKilla Posted July 16, 2003 Share Posted July 16, 2003 I almost forgot the funniest part of the whole interview. MacNeal asks JR who his favorite player on the Sox was. JR responded with "Tony Graffanino" Quickly Harry chimes in "Is it because he is cheap?" It was classic. I'd have to lean towards Graffy offers JM so many tinkering possibilities. Daubach too. Graffy and Daubach are probably 1 and 2 in JM's fave book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hotsoxchick1 Posted July 16, 2003 Share Posted July 16, 2003 Reinsdorf was on AM1000 just a second ago, and was asked about Kenny Williams statements that implied JM was on the hot seat. He made it very clear, that isn't how those statements should be taken. He offered a couple of other lame possible explanations, but made it clear that Jerry wasn't going anywhere. Does anyone think that Kenny was speaking out of turn again? On orders from headquarters; ================== From Today's Sun-Times GM Williams backs Manuel July 16, 2003 BY DOUG PADILLA Staff Reporter White Sox officials were upset Tuesday over a newspaper report that indicated manager Jerry Manuel was given an ultimatum. General manager Ken Williams said the report did not represent what he was talking about when he was approached by two local reporters Monday. The author of the report in question was not one of the two reporters present. Williams said Manuel has not been told that he must get the team to perform better or face the unemployment line. ''I first was asked about Jerry's status, and I said that I was not going to discuss it,'' Williams said. ''Second, I was asked about the team in the second half. That is what I discussed. That is what is out there [in the report] as an ultimatum.'' Manuel has been rumored to be on the hot seat again after the Sox went 3-7 on a road trip against three sub-.500 teams. The low point was a three-game sweep by the struggling Detroit Tigers. Some reports have said Manuel will be dismissed as early as today. Williams said this spring that he takes all criticism of Manuel as a criticism of his own job performance because he puts together the roster. Manuel continually talks about his open dialogue with Williams and said Monday that his job status has not been discussed. After setting the record straight Tuesday, Williams said he wants to distance himself from the issue. ''It's been taken out of context, but it's not the first time and it won't be the last,'' Williams said. ''I have bigger things I need to worry about. I want to put this behind us.'' A Sox official said Tuesday that the team would cut payroll via trades before firing the manager. And with the recent acquisitions of Carl Everett and Roberto Alomar, a fire sale isn't likely to happen soon. Despite the rough road trip, the Sox (45-49) are encouraged by the relatively weak American League Central. They moved into second place with a victory Sunday and are seven games behind the Kansas City Royals, whom they play 13 more times this season. ''We only have one team in front of us,'' Manuel said. ''It's not like we have to leapfrog. We have to hone in on them and go after it.'' so in reality here kw did speak out of turn.. jr tried to correct it and now has made kw retract his words... .classic..........lol..............and we wonder why this org is so f***ed up......me thinks that the left hand lets the right hand do to much without supervision ..........ha ha ha ha ha........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted July 16, 2003 Share Posted July 16, 2003 Interesting to hear that cut payroll line. They weren't direct quotes though, but if thats the case I think KW has a date in mind of deciding whether the Sox are buyers or sellers. Thus far after seeing some of the trades go down, this year looks like you can get good value selling and you can also do good buying if your willing to take on payroll. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Molto Posted July 16, 2003 Share Posted July 16, 2003 he didn't speak out of words, the media reported out of words. notice KW never said, "the sox better do something out of break or Manuel will get canned" he basically changes will happen. personally, I thought KW was gonna can JM today and that quote about changes were meant for the players. there is a variety of ways you can take it. the media took it and threw a "is manuel on the hot seat" question in front of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ncorgbl Posted July 17, 2003 Share Posted July 17, 2003 so in reality here kw did speak out of turn.. jr tried to correct it and now has made kw retract his words... .classic..........lol..............and we wonder why this org is so f***ed up......me thinks that the left hand lets the right hand do to much without supervision ..........ha ha ha ha ha........ How many times now has Williams done something absolutely within his job description and absolutely outside of what Reinsdorf or Einhorn have intended? These things are no secret to those involved, no secret to KW, why does he do it anyway, knowing they will come down on him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted July 17, 2003 Share Posted July 17, 2003 so in reality here kw did speak out of turn.. jr tried to correct it and now has made kw retract his words... .classic..........lol..............and we wonder why this org is so f***ed up......me thinks that the left hand lets the right hand do to much without supervision ..........ha ha ha ha ha........ How many times now has Williams done something absolutely within his job description and absolutely outside of what Reinsdorf or Einhorn have intended? These things are no secret to those involved, no secret to KW, why does he do it anyway, knowing they will come down on him? unless it is the truth and somehow wants to use the shotgun effect to let everyone know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 17, 2003 Share Posted July 17, 2003 so in reality here kw did speak out of turn.. jr tried to correct it and now has made kw retract his words... .classic..........lol..............and we wonder why this org is so f***ed up......me thinks that the left hand lets the right hand do to much without supervision ..........ha ha ha ha ha........ How many times now has Williams done something absolutely within his job description and absolutely outside of what Reinsdorf or Einhorn have intended? These things are no secret to those involved, no secret to KW, why does he do it anyway, knowing they will come down on him? Once again I ask, if KW no longer is performing GM duties,which, according to your earlier posts is correct,why do JR and EE put White Sox fans and everyone else through this charade, giving the illusion that KW is still, if not calling the shots, heavily influencing them. If they didn't want the type of story to come out in the Cubune, and I agree with you that under no circumstance did KW or whomever is in charge give JM an ultimatum, at least from the content of that article, why don't they tell him to stay away. Why don't they let the media know that KW is not in charge, and certainly not performing GM duties? Basically I want to know that if KW is not truly the GM, what the hold up is on the announcement? Please don't say he hasn't stepped down yet, because according to you he has already been removed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted July 17, 2003 Share Posted July 17, 2003 so in reality here kw did speak out of turn.. jr tried to correct it and now has made kw retract his words... .classic..........lol..............and we wonder why this org is so f***ed up......me thinks that the left hand lets the right hand do to much without supervision ..........ha ha ha ha ha........ How many times now has Williams done something absolutely within his job description and absolutely outside of what Reinsdorf or Einhorn have intended? These things are no secret to those involved, no secret to KW, why does he do it anyway, knowing they will come down on him? Once again I ask, if KW no longer is performing GM duties,which, according to your earlier posts is correct,why do JR and EE put White Sox fans and everyone else through this charade, giving the illusion that KW is still, if not calling the shots, heavily influencing them. If they didn't want the type of story to come out in the Cubune, and I agree with you that under no circumstance did KW or whomever is in charge give JM an ultimatum, at least from the content of that article, why don't they tell him to stay away. Why don't they let the media know that KW is not in charge, and certainly not performing GM duties? Basically I want to know that if KW is not truly the GM, what the hold up is on the announcement? Please don't say he hasn't stepped down yet, because according to you he has already been removed. mainly b/c of loyalty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ncorgbl Posted July 17, 2003 Share Posted July 17, 2003 Once again I ask, if KW no longer is performing GM duties,which, according to your earlier posts is correct,why do JR and EE put White Sox fans and everyone else through this charade, giving the illusion that KW is still, if not calling the shots, heavily influencing them. If they didn't want the type of story to come out in the Cubune, and I agree with you that under no circumstance did KW or whomever is in charge give JM an ultimatum, at least from the content of that article, why don't they tell him to stay away. Why don't they let the media know that KW is not in charge, and certainly not performing GM duties? Basically I want to know that if KW is not truly the GM, what the hold up is on the announcement? Please don't say he hasn't stepped down yet, because according to you he has already been removed. I don't think anyone said KW was 'removed'. He's still there, I saw him yesterday. What I did say was that he is G.M. in name only, and would take another position within the organization, maybe a promotion. I would guess there are a lot of reasons that things take longer than I would like them to, but as long as Kenny isn't making out the lineup card any longer, and isn't making pitching decisions any longer, and isn't bothering the manager or players any longer, who cares what he does? Let Eddie worry about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishmookie Posted July 17, 2003 Share Posted July 17, 2003 k dub is right Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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