Official 2008-2009 NFL Offseason Thread

[RockRaines]

The Broncos aren't going to trade Jay Cutler, but if they were interested and wanted Matt Forte and 2nd/3rd round pick I'd trade him in a second.

 

A) Don't get me wrong, I really like Forte but when did he become Walter Payton reincarnated?

 

and

 

B-) As has been proven time and time again throughout the league... its sooo much harder to find an elite QB than an RB.

I wouldnt. He's already one of the best young RB's in the league and is a complete player from a blocking, catching and running standpoint. I'd really rather have Forte than Cutler. I think Forte is a stud and a star in the making.

[DBAHO]

Here we go again with my hatred of a "franchise, f***ing stud QB" but Forte had a great season this past year. Granted, he was given tons of touches, but that isn't his problem. He racked up 1230+ rushing yards and about 20 yards under 500 on the receiving end. I believe he finished with 11 TD's, too. All this was behind an absolutely pitiful OL. His season last year was better then any of Cutler's so far. If we did trade Forte for Cutler, it would have to be straight up. To give them Forte + a 2nd or a 3rd would be an awful move for the organization.

All I'll say to this is how much easier is it to find a good RB (especially in the draft) compared to a good QB?

[DBAHO]

I wouldnt. He's already one of the best young RB's in the league and is a complete player from a blocking, catching and running standpoint. I'd really rather have Forte than Cutler. I think Forte is a stud and a star in the making.

I'd be worried that the Bears need to reduce his carries this season (and find another RB), otherwise he could burn out very early in his career.

 

I have the same worries about my favorite NFL player Marion "The Barbarian" FWIW.

[RockRaines]

All I'll say to this is how much easier is it to find a good RB (especially in the draft) compared to a good QB?

The Bears have had immense trouble with both actually.

[DBAHO]

Really?

 

I'm by no means an Orton supporter, but I'd rather have Kyle than Sage Rosenfels. You're definitely right about Orton though definitely has a lot to prove. He's not going to be an above average QB unless he improves the accuracy on his throws and gets a better feel for moving around in the pocket (which ultimately led to the undoing of my beloved).

 

Orton

4 years younger -- had no receivers -- didn't throw many picks last year (12 in 465 attempts).

 

Rosenfels is 30, he did throw with 66% accuracy, but also threw ten picks in 142 attempts. You can't ignore the fact that Rosenfels had Slaton, the best receiver in the league, and a secondary receiver better than any of our receivers.

 

I'd rather have Sage Rosenfels than Tavaris Jackson, but only as a short term option. If Denver had to choose between Rosenfels and Orton... I would be a little shocked if they chose Rosenfels.

Well I base it on this;

 

1 - Orton's mechanics apparently went out of whack in the 2nd half of the season after he came back from his knee injury. He was a completely different QB to the 1st half of the season (67.2 QB rating in the 2nd half of the season). Needs to show that he's recovered from that.

 

2 - In really bad weather (temp's under 40F), Orton had a QB rating of around 62. And once again that could be from #1, but he needs to show he can pass in cold weather.

 

There's no doubt that Rosenfals is more of a Brett Favre / Tony Romo type of QB compared to Orton. But if he can cut down on the TO's, he's certainly shown he can move the ball effectively on offense. He also has a 90.6 QB rating on games indoors, which indicates that he should be a good fit for the Vikings.

 

I see the Vikings as a 12 game winning team next season, and a serious contender for the superbowl.

[DBAHO]

The Bears have had immense trouble with both actually.

Well that's Jerry Angelo's fault more than anything.

 

Just look at all of the good RB's who are playing today that you can get after the 1st round.

 

Marion Barber

Steve Slaton

Pierre Thomas

Frank Gore

 

And the list goes on. Angelo just wasted his picks on Benson and Garett Wolfe.

[Chisoxfn]

The Bears have had immense trouble with both actually.

I don't know. Jones did a good job when he was here and really, they'd have productive play out of there backs most of the decade. Maybe not star worthy but still solid enough. To get a franchise QB, that would be a significant step up.

[Balta1701]

I don't know. Jones did a good job when he was here and really, they'd have productive play out of there backs most of the decade. Maybe not star worthy but still solid enough. To get a franchise QB, that would be a significant step up.

Whenever the Bears' O-Line has performed well, they've had a decent running game under the last couple coaching staffs by my recollection.

[RockRaines]

I don't know. Jones did a good job when he was here and really, they'd have productive play out of there backs most of the decade. Maybe not star worthy but still solid enough. To get a franchise QB, that would be a significant step up.

Yes but we didnt draft him and we pushed him out of town for our "new franchise" RB in Benson. The Bears have had trouble finding that good long term solution since about Payton. Neal Anderson was pretty close.

[MurcieOne]

Whenever the Bears' O-Line has performed well, they've had a decent running game under the last couple coaching staffs by my recollection.

 

Thats essentially the case with all teams. Unless you have a guy like AP (who actually has an amazing o-line) or LT in his prime... you need to have good play from your o-line.

 

The bears o-line last year wasn't great, but they performed better than anyone expected and were probably around the middle of the league performance wise.

 

Matt Forte is already a pretty great player. As stated earlier he can run, catch, and block like a five-year veteran, however, I would not consider him a transcendent player. Forte doesn't have the quickness, elusiveness, or sheer brunt force to take over a game like Adrian Peterson, Jerome Bettis, etc... Thats why you trade him. While you probably wont find another running back as good as Forte in the immediate future... you will be able to find a player who can do just enough to make your team win. The same cannot be said about the QB position, where elite QBs are limited per era and where fill-ins could not come close to replicating the impact of the elite player.

 

The reasoning above is why the Broncos will not trade Jay Cutler... if I were the Broncos I wouldn't trade Jay Cutler for the Lions pick at number 1. Cutler has already made the pro bowl... currently makes less than Stafford will as the number 1 (assuming they'd take him) and they don't have to wait two-three years until Cutler is ready.

 

This is all just mental exercise, because the Bears will not trade for Cutler, Orton will be our QB and will probably not be here next year. The fact remains that this franchise cannot develop the position most crucial to success. Just cant do it. Angelo and Lovie have to be held accountable and so do their successors. There is probably no bigger reason for the bears lack of championships over the past two-plus decades than being unable to find a franchise QB.

 

 

[Chisoxfn]

Happy Belated Birthday Marky!!!!

[MurcieOne]

Yes but we didnt draft him and we pushed him out of town for our "new franchise" RB in Benson. The Bears have had trouble finding that good long term solution since about Payton. Neal Anderson was pretty close.

 

The average career of a running back is 2.6 years. Most teams don't have long term solutions at running back.

 

Patriots have won three SuperBowls with three different starting RB's -- one Qb though.

 

Unless you have that really special guy, its not worth blowing cap space on. Look at LT, even when you have that special guy... you never know when he's gonna lose "it." which seems to be the case with running backs when they near 30. Edgerrin James -- same thing.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[MurcieOne]

Happy Belated Birthday Marky!!!!

 

too late... real pain for you.

[smalls2598]

Warner resigns with Cards, 2 years $23

[Palehosefan]

Cowboys released Terrell. Nice.

[SoxFan1]

Here we go again with my hatred of a "franchise, f***ing stud QB" but Forte had a great season this past year. Granted, he was given tons of touches, but that isn't his problem. He racked up 1230+ rushing yards and about 20 yards under 500 on the receiving end. I believe he finished with 11 TD's, too. All this was behind an absolutely pitiful OL. His season last year was better then any of Cutler's so far. If we did trade Forte for Cutler, it would have to be straight up. To give them Forte + a 2nd or a 3rd would be an awful move for the organization.

New to football?

[Kyyle23]

Matt Birk to the Ravens. I wonder who fills his spot on that Vikings O-Line?

[whitesoxbrian]

New to football?

You would trade Forte and potentially a first day pick for Jay Cutler?

 

Matt Birk to the Ravens. I wonder who fills his spot on that Vikings O-Line?

Alex Mack in round 1, or Eric Wood/Max Unger in round 2?

[Kyyle23]

You would trade Forte and potentially a first day pick for Jay Cutler?

 

 

Alex Mack in round 1, or Eric Wood/Max Unger in round 2?

 

It was more of a "Who is going to replace a multiple time probowler and 11 year anchor of a amazing line" question then a "who will the vikings draft" question

[whitesoxfan101]

You would trade Forte and potentially a first day pick for Jay Cutler?

 

ANYBODY would trade Forte and a 2nd or 3rd rounder (you said that more specifically later in this post, 3rd round isn't 2nd day anymore but I know what you meant since it was through the 2007 draft) pick for Jay Cutler. The Bears haven't had a proven, franchise quarterback since Sid Luckman, and running backs like Forte are a dime a dozen and very easy to find. A trade like that is not a particularly difficult decision. However, the Bears are going back to the old days of "tossing nickels around like manhole covers" (a saying which I really hate but does apply this offseason) so it's not like they'd make a move or something.

 

Anthony Thomas rookie numbers: 278 carries, 1,183 yards, 7 TD

Matt Forte rookie numbers: 316 carries, 1,238 yards, 8 TD

 

Forte did have a much better rookie year receiving (about 300 more yards), but a large part of that is the fact that it can be said literally and without hyperbole that the 2008 Bears had one of the worst WR groups in NFL history. Would YOU have traded Anthony Thomas and a 2nd or 3rd rounder after his rookie year for a franchise type QB? I would have, and I'd do the same damn thing in the case of Forte.

Edited March 5, 2009 by whitesoxfan101

[RockRaines]

I honesly dont know what to say when I see a comparison of Anthony Thomas and Matt Forte. They couldnt be more different of RB's.

[Kyyle23]

I honesly dont know what to say when I see a comparison of Anthony Thomas and Matt Forte. They couldnt be more different of RB's.

 

I think the point is that you cant judge after the first year, and trading a RB like Forte shouldnt be mission impossible because of his first year numbers. Everyone thought A-Train was awesome after his first year and he has flopped hardcore

[Harry Chappas]

This thread is getting almost as good as those folks that are Bulls fans that wouldn't trade Deng, Gordon or Tyrus Thomas because they are going to be good one of these days.

 

It is a lot easier to replace Forte and a 2nd round pick than it is to get an above average quarterback.

[T R U]

Anthony Thomas rookie numbers: 278 carries, 1,183 yards, 7 TD

RaShaan Salaam rookie numbers: 296 carries, 1,074 yards, 10 TD

Matt Forte rookie numbers: 316 carries, 1,238 yards, 8 TD

Edited March 5, 2009 by T R U

[Balta1701]

This thread is getting almost as good as those folks that are Bulls fans that wouldn't trade Deng, Gordon or Tyrus Thomas because they are going to be good one of these days.

 

It is a lot easier to replace Forte and a 2nd round pick than it is to get an above average quarterback.

The question comes down to how much do you value Cutler. It's pretty much that simple to my eyes. If you think he's slightly above average...those guys are available. If you think he's top 6-7 in the league, those guys usually aren't, Brees being the exception that proves the rule.