NY Daily News: Sox make Abreu 1-Year Offer

[fathom]

Or more runs scored due to their ability to score on an extra base hit before a hitter who is prone to hitting into double plays or striking out comes to the plate.

 

For most teams, I'd say speed is important at the top of the order. For the Sox, I think it's extremely overrated with the current middle of our order. If we start shaking it up and replace people like Thome and Konerko, then I would change my opinion. The last thing we all need to see is bunting in the first inning because Ozzie has one of his speedy guys on base.

[WCSox]

All speed does in front of a bunch of power hitters is equate to fewer base runners after they get caught stealing.

 

Yeah, you're right. Station-to-station baseball is the way to go. It works wonders against good pitching in the playoffs!

 

[caulfield12]

We have a 3/4/5/6 in our lineup with immense power. Speed is extremely overrated.

 

 

It's not QUITE as balanced as the 2000 juggernaut, but it's close.

 

AJ and Ramirez aren't exactly chopped liver, particularly Ramirez, with his power potential.

 

Then you've got the likes of Brian Anderson, Fields/Viciedo and Beckham that all have lots of power potential. Theoretically, you could have 20-25 homers from all 9 positions on the diamond.

 

Beckham 2B

Ramirez SS

Quentin LF

Thome DH

Dye RF

Konerko/Allen 1B

AJ/Flowers C

Fields/Viciedo 3B

Anderson CF

 

 

[bmags]

you are already penciling in beckham?

[SoxFan562004]

For most teams, I'd say speed is important at the top of the order. For the Sox, I think it's extremely overrated with the current middle of our order. If we start shaking it up and replace people like Thome and Konerko, then I would change my opinion. The last thing we all need to see is bunting in the first inning because Ozzie has one of his speedy guys on base.

Also the Cell has a lot do to with the lineup the Sox should pursue.

[fathom]

Also the Cell has a lot do to with the lineup the Sox should pursue.

 

Absolutely, as does a pitching staff that might take some lumps this season.

[scenario]

Another scenario, and it's admittedly a longshot IMO, is Alex Gonzalez coming here... because the Reds need a SS who doesn't suck.

 

So... let's NOT make their problem our problem.

Edited February 3, 2009 by scenario

[RockRaines]

For most teams, I'd say speed is important at the top of the order. For the Sox, I think it's extremely overrated with the current middle of our order. If we start shaking it up and replace people like Thome and Konerko, then I would change my opinion. The last thing we all need to see is bunting in the first inning because Ozzie has one of his speedy guys on base.

I would say the complete opposite, that you arent taking into account the type of power hitters we have. Thome is a strike out machine and Konerko is a DP machine. This team needs runners off of first base and in scoring position as often as possible, and with high avg hitters like Q, Konerko (maybe) and Dye behind them, they need to be able to move from first to third and score from second on a hit. Speed in front of these sluggers is very important. If you put Thome at the lead off position and he was station to station, would you think it wouldnt matter if someone with speed was in that spot?

 

Speed isnt always stealing bases or bunting like you seem to picture. Its being able to move up a base on a wild pitch or a bobble. Its being able to move into sac fly position with 1 out, going from 1st to 3rd on a bloop and being able to take dp's out. THATS the kind of speed we need.

Edited February 3, 2009 by RockRaines

[Fotop]

Read elsewhere that XM radio is reporting this as a done deal. Kind of a third hand confirmation, but if true that was a quick sign.

[RockRaines]

Read elsewhere that XM radio is reporting this as a done deal. Kind of a third hand confirmation, but if true that was a quick sign.

mlbtr.com?

[fathom]

I would say the complete opposite, that you arent taking into account the type of power hitters we have. Thome is a strike out machine and Konerko is a DP machine. This team needs runners off of first base and in scoring position as often as possible, and with high avg hitters like Q, Konerko (maybe) and Dye behind them, they need to be able to move from first to third and score from second on a hit. Speed in front of these sluggers is very important. If you put Thome at the lead off position and he was station to station, would you think it wouldnt matter if someone with speed was in that spot?

 

My personal opinion is that our best lineup would be Thome leading off with Alexei batting 2nd, if that gives you some insight into how I'd manage at the Cell. I completely agree we need to break up the 3/4/5/6, especially if AJP is batting 2nd or 7th.

[fathom]

Speed isnt always stealing bases or bunting like you seem to picture. Its being able to move up a base on a wild pitch or a bobble. Its being able to move into sac fly position with 1 out, going from 1st to 3rd on a bloop and being able to take dp's out. THATS the kind of speed we need.

 

Agreed, like good base runners like Abreu.

[caulfield12]

That sounds possible.

 

Another scenario, and it's admittedly a longshot IMO, is Alex Gonzalez coming here. I thought that when we picked up Lilli it might be a precursor to a Dye deal because the Reds need a SS who doesn't suck. Gonzalez makes $5.375M with a $500K buyout. If the Sox did something like Dye + Lillibridge ($11.8M) for Alex Gonzalez, Homer Bailey, $1M cash, and about 2 good prospects then the salary would work (about $4.8M). The Reds would add $7M while the Sox would clear $7M.

 

It seems like the Sox really like Lilli though and it seems like Bailey is just enough alone to get Dye, so those prospects would have to be really good, and I don't know what the Reds would be able to offer. Dickerson certainly doesn't fit that description.

 

 

Alexei Ramirez/Beckham >>> Gonzalez (better and cheaper)

Lillibridge >>> Gonzalez (cheaper, upside potential)

 

It makes not a whole lot of sense....neither does Encarnacion, although at least we theoretically have more of a hole there (3B) than at SS. If it was going to be anyone, I would have thought Freel would be more of KW's type of player than Gonzalez.

 

But I don't even think KW would pick up the phone to trade Gonzalez for Lillibridge straight up. Some team in need of a bat like the Dodgers, Reds or Angels will come calling with a better deal. KW can wait until Abreu/Dunn and Manny Ramirez are off the market. There's even talk of Griffey, Jr., signing with the Mets for less than $1 million...

 

 

[fathom]

Also, sorry to derail this thread with talk about lineup construction. We can keep it about rumors regarding Abreu and any signing ramifications, as we'll have plenty of time for lineup talk.

[RockRaines]

My personal opinion is that our best lineup would be Thome leading off with Alexei batting 2nd, if that gives you some insight into how I'd manage at the Cell. I completely agree we need to break up the 3/4/5/6, especially if AJP is batting 2nd or 7th.

Fath you are a true 3 run homer guy, im the opposite. I like singles, sac flys and scoring from 2nd.

 

Abreu

 

 

Just wanted to keep it on topic.

Edited February 3, 2009 by RockRaines

[WCSox]

I would say the complete opposite, that you arent taking into account the type of power hitters we have. Thome is a strike out machine and Konerko is a DP machine. This team needs runners off of first base and in scoring position as often as possible, and with high avg hitters like Q, Konerko (maybe) and Dye behind them, they need to be able to move from first to third and score from second on a hit. Speed in front of these sluggers is very important. If you put Thome at the lead off position and he was station to station, would you think it wouldnt matter if someone with speed was in that spot?

 

Speed isnt always stealing bases or bunting like you seem to picture. Its being able to move up a base on a wild pitch or a bobble. Its being able to move into sac fly position with 1 out, going from 1st to 3rd on a bloop and being able to take dp's out. THATS the kind of speed we need.

 

I agree with this. I'm not suggesting that the Sox need to field a track team out there, but they need to do a better job of manufacturing runs that they have over the past few years. Right now, there is NOBODY on this team who can steal bases and hit with a high enough OBP to lead off.

 

Look at how many runs Lofton and Vizquel scored for the '90s Indians teams... with Manny, Thome, Belle, etc. hitting behind them. Speed at the top of the lineup is INCREDIBLY helpful.

 

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

So... let's NOT make their problem our problem.

Why would that be a problem? In order to move a big contract and get a very good prospect in return we'll have to take on a bad contract. Paying some guy $4M to sit on the bench isn't really a problem, in fact, we did it last year.

 

Besides, why would you rather eat about $4M of Dye's contract when you could take on a serviceable UT player at that amount instead? If the Reds can only commit $7M to an OF then something has to happen to offset that salary if Cincy is indeed where Dye is headed.

[Reddy]

My personal opinion is that our best lineup would be Thome leading off with Alexei batting 2nd, if that gives you some insight into how I'd manage at the Cell. I completely agree we need to break up the 3/4/5/6, especially if AJP is batting 2nd or 7th.

i completely agree.

[macsandz]

I would say the complete opposite, that you arent taking into account the type of power hitters we have. Thome is a strike out machine and Konerko is a DP machine. This team needs runners off of first base and in scoring position as often as possible, and with high avg hitters like Q, Konerko (maybe) and Dye behind them, they need to be able to move from first to third and score from second on a hit. Speed in front of these sluggers is very important. If you put Thome at the lead off position and he was station to station, would you think it wouldnt matter if someone with speed was in that spot?

 

Speed isnt always stealing bases or bunting like you seem to picture. Its being able to move up a base on a wild pitch or a bobble. Its being able to move into sac fly position with 1 out, going from 1st to 3rd on a bloop and being able to take dp's out. THATS the kind of speed we need.

 

SPOT ON. GREAT POST!

 

[RockRaines]

I agree with this. I'm not suggesting that the Sox need to field a track team out there, but they need to do a better job of manufacturing runs that they have over the past few years. Right now, there is NOBODY on this team who can steal bases and hit with a high enough OBP to lead off.

 

Look at how many runs Lofton and Vizquel scored for the '90s Indians teams... with Manny, Thome, Belle, etc. hitting behind them. Speed at the top of the lineup is INCREDIBLY helpful.

I honestly dont even care if they steal bases. I just see the scenario of a hitter getting on base in front of Q. Q singles and the runner is only at 2nd base, and all of a sudden you have eliminated a sac fly op for Thome or Konerko who both have the ability to hit fly balls on demand. Instead you get a K and a ground out. I just HATE the station to station bulls*** and the lack of being able to take the extra base when needed. You can look at a small sample size of the 05 team in the World Series and the ALCS and you can see us constantly looking to take the extra base, even though we hit a ton of homers, we scored several times just being able to get to second on a throw or go from first to third with one out.

[Fotop]

As for the XM radio stuff, I read that on an ND message board (typically for football but it has open sports forums like here). No idea if it's true, just saying I read it elsewhere.

 

As for thoughts about this, it's all starting to make sense when you look at the contracts. Abreu for $8 mil + Figgins for $4.75 mil is roughly the same as one Dye at $12 mil. I personally don't like Figgins, but the writing seems to be on the wall here. KW is never this obvious though, so I'll believe it all when I see it.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

Alexei Ramirez/Beckham >>> Gonzalez (better and cheaper)

Lillibridge >>> Gonzalez (cheaper, upside potential)

 

It makes not a whole lot of sense....neither does Encarnacion, although at least we theoretically have more of a hole there (3B) than at SS. If it was going to be anyone, I would have thought Freel would be more of KW's type of player than Gonzalez.

 

But I don't even think KW would pick up the phone to trade Gonzalez for Lillibridge straight up. Some team in need of a bat like the Dodgers, Reds or Angels will come calling with a better deal. KW can wait until Abreu/Dunn and Manny Ramirez are off the market. There's even talk of Griffey, Jr., signing with the Mets for less than $1 million...

You're missing the point. The idea wouldn't be to use the guy as a starter.

 

Gonzalez is the only contract they have that they've added prior to Jocketty taking over that would fit as far as making salaries work. The Reds have said that they don't have the money to take on a contract the size of Dye's. That means something has to happen to offset that salary if a deal is to be done.

 

Obviously Lilli is better. We have Beckham who I believe Ozzie just said will likely have to switch positions. He'll be at 2B with Alexei at SS, then there's Dayan and Fields for third. Lilli might be available in the right deal, same with Getz, if the Sox are a lot higher on the other guys.

 

The point is, it's like an NBA salary cap thing. You take one garbage player on an expiring contract and then add him to a bunch of very good players and then you deal for a star when you get the salaries to come out the right way. Dealing Gonzalez would represent a savings for the Reds only, not something good for the Sox. In return the Sox would then want enough in the prospect department to make taking on the contract worth it and to also offset the value of Lillibridge's talents. Again, just an idea that is probably a longshot, but the Reds don't have a SS and Lilli could be a guy they'd target in a deal with us anyway.

[Princess Dye]

To me, Abreu makes sense. He can move a little on the basepaths. To me that was one of the underrated things about CQ - he can run, not amazingly but not a detriment either.

 

We need more of that, and OBP. The two RFs in question are both reaching middle-30s, so go with the guy that fits our needs more.

 

 

 

Dye's trade value wont get any higher i would say than right now. It can get a whole lot lower though, obviously.

Edited February 3, 2009 by Princess Dye

[Steve9347]

Dunn > Thome

Wow, way to go out on a limb comparing a 29 year old to a 38 year old.

[NorthSideSox72]

Well, Abreu does indeed solve the #2 hitter issue.

 

If we do sign him, I am 95% sure that one of Dye or Konerko (probably Dye) is getting traded very soon.