ILMOU Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 QUOTE (MO2005 @ Feb 11, 2009 -> 11:12 AM) Explain how we are going to be ok? This should be rephrased to we are a questionable team right now with young guys that we don't know what we are going to get out of. No question, there are a lot of questions. But, basically, all negative projections for this team are largely based on expected regression from Alexei, Q, Danks, and Floyd - I ain't buyin' that, I think they'll be even better in '09, except maybe Q who couldn't possibly get much better. Also, with the exception of Colon/Linebrink, our pitching staff figures to be "healthier" than most. I don't think that's weighted as much as it should be by the projections. *Someone will emerge at 2B, and be at least adequate. The supposed gambles with Tadahito and Alexei worked out as well, and our good fortune will continue here. *Jose might be pretty good after a long rest - he started last year very well. *The key will be the start of the season, and our schedule early on is not daunting *Real studs like Beckham and Viciedo may provide help sooner than expected Owens and CF generally scare the CR/AP out of me. 5th starter, a little less so. Ask me again about half way through ST. Right now, I'm an optimist. But man, I'm bummed that Abreu won't be hitting in front of all our clout-or-out bats. I'm rather sick of seeing us still lose games when we get three HR's, all solo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jphat007 Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 QUOTE (Jimbo's Drinker @ Feb 11, 2009 -> 12:50 PM) The White Sox even with Abreu had no chance of winning anything. The Angels are contenders, nuff said. Contenders to lose in the first round? Every team except the Yanks, Bosox and Rays (and even them to some extent) has a s***load of questions that can only be answered once the games begin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TylerAtIU Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 (edited) Dunn is about to sign a 2-year deal w/ the nationals per MLBTR Edited February 11, 2009 by ChiSox420* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCSox Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Feb 11, 2009 -> 10:01 AM) I sure as hell wouldnt. Abreu would be a ridiculous OBP and RBI guy for us. He's a better clutch hitter with men on base and would get on base himself in front of a ton of power. I would have packed Dye's bags for him if we could have traded him. Abreu hasn't been a .400 OBP guy for a couple of years now and is entering the downside of his career. He crossed the plate 100 times last year in 156 games with a solid supporting cast, while JD scored 96 runs in 154 games with a similar supporting cast. This isn't the same guy from 2004 - his numbers are clearly in decline. Agreed that he'd be a nice two-hole hitter with a much better OBP than JD... but then there'd also be about a 10-HR gap between the two. I don't see him as a massive upgrade. Knowing Ozzie, he would also be stuck in CF, where he'd be a defensive liability. Unless Kenny could've moved JD for somebody like Figgins, I wouldn't be in favor of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 QUOTE (WCSox @ Feb 11, 2009 -> 01:51 PM) Abreu hasn't been a .400 OBP guy for a couple of years now and is entering the downside of his career. He crossed the plate 100 times last year in 156 games with a solid supporting cast, while JD scored 96 runs in 154 games with a similar supporting cast. This isn't the same guy from 2004 - his numbers are clearly in decline. Agreed that he'd be a nice two-hole hitter with a much better OBP than JD... but then there'd also be about a 10-HR gap between the two. I don't see him as a massive upgrade. Knowing Ozzie, he would also be stuck in CF, where he'd be a defensive liability. Unless Kenny could've moved JD for somebody like Figgins, I wouldn't be in favor of it. If he has entered the downside of his career then so has JD since they are the same age. One my pet peeves about the Sox is their lack of clutch hitting with men on base. Abreu is much better than JD in this aspect which I value more than the few HR's that JD hits. Abreu: RISP: .296 .372 .450 (169AB) Runners on: .317 .397 .541 (290 AB) RISP 2 outs: .382 .433 .618 (55AB) Dye: RISP: .269 .304 .429 (156AB) Runners on: .273 .328 .472 (267AB) RISP 2 outs: .210 .269 .306 (62AB) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heirdog Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 I have been saying since the off season started that Abreu makes sense and KW will be very interested in him. It may have been that the Sox were waiting on a contingency to occur but in reality, the $8M offer was never on the table as a guy that wanted 3 yr/$45M will not suddenly take $3M less when he is already getting "peanuts." Now methinks that Dye will still be traded and the real reason that KW didn't put a realistic offer on the table for Abreu is that Mr. Viciedo won him over with his apparent weight loss and BP sessions. Dayan will be our RF. No one has argued that he can hit and he likely has shown off quite a bit to the Sox brass. His weakness may be his "obesity" but he didn't look so fat in Cubano's video post. He also has a cannon arm. His mobility and range can't be any worse than Dye (or even Abreu) so we really are not losing much in the field. Now, he has some high expectations though at the plate... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa1334 Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 QUOTE (heirdog @ Feb 11, 2009 -> 02:34 PM) I have been saying since the off season started that Abreu makes sense and KW will be very interested in him. It may have been that the Sox were waiting on a contingency to occur but in reality, the $8M offer was never on the table as a guy that wanted 3 yr/$45M will not suddenly take $3M less when he is already getting "peanuts." Now methinks that Dye will still be traded and the real reason that KW didn't put a realistic offer on the table for Abreu is that Mr. Viciedo won him over with his apparent weight loss and BP sessions. Dayan will be our RF. No one has argued that he can hit and he likely has shown off quite a bit to the Sox brass. His weakness may be his "obesity" but he didn't look so fat in Cubano's video post. He also has a cannon arm. His mobility and range can't be any worse than Dye (or even Abreu) so we really are not losing much in the field. Now, he has some high expectations though at the plate... ok and like everyone has been saying, why would anyone want JD at 12mil? kw would have to take on a lot of that salary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 huh...I don't know about that. Winning someone over with batting practice? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heirdog Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 QUOTE (bmags @ Feb 11, 2009 -> 03:37 PM) huh...I don't know about that. Winning someone over with batting practice? He won them over when they signed him...he made them feel confident in his abilities with BP. If he doesn't pan out, they can still go with an outfield of Owens, Anderson, and CQ (a 2009 version of Pods, Rowand, and Dye). They have replaced Dye's slugging with Fields at 3rd. So yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heirdog Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 QUOTE (Melissa1334 @ Feb 11, 2009 -> 03:37 PM) ok and like everyone has been saying, why would anyone want JD at 12mil? kw would have to take on a lot of that salary Ok, so give up JD and $3 mill for Bailey and Dickerson...you still save $ and use your Swisher investment (Dayan) instead of plowing the JD money back in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 so then where do you trade Dye? The Sox don't take on money in deals (I figured this may have been one of the few times they would have, but even then, it wasn't going to be much) and Dye makes a pretty significant amount. I don't see any way Dye is traded at this point. The Sox roster seems pretty much set, barring some late 1-year deal to one of the few remaining free agents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 QUOTE (heirdog @ Feb 11, 2009 -> 02:43 PM) Ok, so give up JD and $3 mill for Bailey and Dickerson...you still save $ and use your Swisher investment (Dayan) instead of plowing the JD money back in. You are assuming Cincinnati will want Dye at $8.5 mill, let alone giving up two solid prospects too. I won't make that assumption at this point in the offseason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa1334 Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 QUOTE (heirdog @ Feb 11, 2009 -> 02:43 PM) Ok, so give up JD and $3 mill for Bailey and Dickerson...you still save $ and use your Swisher investment (Dayan) instead of plowing the JD money back in. i think itd even have to be more than 3 mil, 9mil is still a bit too much. id love that trade though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shipps Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 the Score reporting that Abreu signs with Angels 1 year deal with incentives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 QUOTE (heirdog @ Feb 11, 2009 -> 02:41 PM) He won them over when they signed him...he made them feel confident in his abilities with BP. If he doesn't pan out, they can still go with an outfield of Owens, Anderson, and CQ (a 2009 version of Pods, Rowand, and Dye). They have replaced Dye's slugging with Fields at 3rd. So yes. Yeah, so you are just making this up, and thats nice. Dye's salary is untradeable at this point unless someone gets desperate. Even if we throw money into it, which we wont. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heirdog Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Feb 11, 2009 -> 04:07 PM) Yeah, so you are just making this up, and thats nice. Is this a discussion forum or a reference forum? I didn't know that everything had to be fact and that people should only use this space to cite sources (what we have other websites and news sites for). I wasn't stating anything as a known fact, it was my opinion. If it was otherwise, I would have said so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MO2005 Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 QUOTE (heirdog @ Feb 11, 2009 -> 02:41 PM) He won them over when they signed him...he made them feel confident in his abilities with BP. If he doesn't pan out, they can still go with an outfield of Owens, Anderson, and CQ (a 2009 version of Pods, Rowand, and Dye). They have replaced Dye's slugging with Fields at 3rd. So yes. 2009 version of 2005? What a joke! Come on Anderson is no way near the player Rowand is. Yes Rowand is a little overrated, but Anderson is a little leaguer at best. Come on with that comparison man. Fields will strike out about 200 times in a year so that will lower some percentages. How do you call that a replacement when the guy strikes out about 2 times the amount Dye does? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 QUOTE (santo=dorf @ Feb 10, 2009 -> 08:25 PM) Called it. I bet you would "freaking" love it if the Angels signed him for dirt cheap. That GMj contract looks REALLY bad now. That would be a nice signing and your right, that GMJ deal is awful looking. I always thought Dunn would be a good fit in Anaheim. I don't like Dunn that much but his power would be a much welcome addition in Anaheim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCSox Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Feb 11, 2009 -> 11:58 AM) If he has entered the downside of his career then so has JD since they are the same age. The difference is that Abreu is already showing his age, while JD isn't. Abreu's numbers have been declining over the past two years. JD's really haven't, and I like his chances to play near his career average this year more than Abreu's. I can't argue with Abreu's RISP numbers. But I'd much rather that the Sox have a true leadoff hitter than Abreu. The idea floated in this thread of signing Abreu and dealing Dye for Figgins made a lot of sense. Signing Abreu and dealing Dye for, say, a minor-league pitcher makes less sense, especially since KW would have to eat about half of Dye's salary in a trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heirdog Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 QUOTE (MO2005 @ Feb 11, 2009 -> 06:42 PM) 2009 version of 2005? What a joke! Come on Anderson is no way near the player Rowand is. Yes Rowand is a little overrated, but Anderson is a little leaguer at best. Come on with that comparison man. Fields will strike out about 200 times in a year so that will lower some percentages. How do you call that a replacement when the guy strikes out about 2 times the amount Dye does? The replacement for Dye is Viciedo but for whatever reason, if he doesn't pan out right away, then Fields will provide some of the power lost from Dye. Fields should be able to hit .270 with 35+ HRs regardless of strikeouts so while he is not JD now, he gives some of what JD would provide. Plus remember, the 2009 version of 2005 has CQ has Dye's replacement, which is not a downgrade. Owens is Pods and Anderson is Rowand. What's a joke? The fact that you think Grinder Rowand is wayyyyyyy better than Anderson?!? Let's look at the tools: Hitting for Avg: Rowand > Anderson Hitting for Power: Anderson >/= Rowand Fielding his position: Anderson > Rowand Arm Strength: Anderson > Rowand Baserunning: Anderson > Rowand (Speed may be equal but Rowand was atrocious on the basepaths, often running into outs, etc.) I have faith...just my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 QUOTE (heirdog @ Feb 12, 2009 -> 08:48 AM) The replacement for Dye is Viciedo but for whatever reason, if he doesn't pan out right away, then Fields will provide some of the power lost from Dye. Fields should be able to hit .270 with 35+ HRs regardless of strikeouts so while he is not JD now, he gives some of what JD would provide. Plus remember, the 2009 version of 2005 has CQ has Dye's replacement, which is not a downgrade. Owens is Pods and Anderson is Rowand. What's a joke? The fact that you think Grinder Rowand is wayyyyyyy better than Anderson?!? Let's look at the tools: Hitting for Avg: Rowand > Anderson Hitting for Power: Anderson >/= Rowand Fielding his position: Anderson > Rowand Arm Strength: Anderson > Rowand Baserunning: Anderson > Rowand (Speed may be equal but Rowand was atrocious on the basepaths, often running into outs, etc.) I have faith...just my opinion. What makes you think he can do that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soxfan3530 Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 I would rather have Hudson anyway. But i doubt we get him either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heirdog Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 QUOTE (kyyle23 @ Feb 12, 2009 -> 10:17 AM) What makes you think he can do that? .263 and 23 HRs in 100 games in '07 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 QUOTE (heirdog @ Feb 12, 2009 -> 12:02 PM) .263 and 23 HRs in 100 games in '07 .244 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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