RockRaines Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 sorry for ruining the thread with my posts, its obvious myself, fathom and a few others could have a 100 page thread debating lineups. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Chappas Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Feb 3, 2009 -> 12:37 PM) sorry for ruining the thread with my posts, its obvious myself, fathom and a few others could have a 100 page thread debating lineups. Beats the shot out of not having anything to talk about Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Feb 3, 2009 -> 01:34 PM) You're missing the point. The idea wouldn't be to use the guy as a starter. Gonzalez is the only contract they have that they've added prior to Jocketty taking over that would fit as far as making salaries work. The Reds have said that they don't have the money to take on a contract the size of Dye's. That means something has to happen to offset that salary if a deal is to be done. Obviously Lilli is better. We have Beckham who I believe Ozzie just said will likely have to switch positions. He'll be at 2B with Alexei at SS, then there's Dayan and Fields for third. Lilli might be available in the right deal, same with Getz, if the Sox are a lot higher on the other guys. The point is, it's like an NBA salary cap thing. You take one garbage player on an expiring contract and then add him to a bunch of very good players and then you deal for a star when you get the salaries to come out the right way. Dealing Gonzalez would represent a savings for the Reds only, not something good for the Sox. In return the Sox would then want enough in the prospect department to make taking on the contract worth it and to also offset the value of Lillibridge's talents. Again, just an idea that is probably a longshot, but the Reds don't have a SS and Lilli could be a guy they'd target in a deal with us anyway. If we didn't have Betemit, maybe. But the fact is, Uribe, in this market, isn't even worth a major league contract or anything over $1 million. We'd be adding a negligible player on to our payroll in these tough economic times that wouldn't be too far off from Nick Swisher's contract numbers. There's got to be a better fit from larger market club that doesn't have the same salary concerns. The Dodgers just had $25 million for one year to Manny Ramirez turned down, if they don't bring in Dunn and Hudson, that might be a perfect fit, as JD's a native Californian and they have $30 million in available payroll space right now. I just can't think of a time we took a garbage player/extra contract on in a deal...MAYBE Vizcaino coming with Pods, but that's as close as you get in KW's regime. And I think Vizcaino was still more valuable in that 2005 bullpen then he was given credit for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 I know the Sox were 1st in HR's and 1st in hitting into DP's last year in the AL. A few less home runs and a lot less DP's isn't a bad thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Feb 3, 2009 -> 10:36 AM) Well, Abreu does indeed solve the #2 hitter issue. If we do sign him, I am 95% sure that one of Dye or Konerko (probably Dye) is getting traded very soon. I understand that the market has changed for OF's quite a bit, but with Manny refusing to sign for anything anyone is going to offer, signing Abreu and moving Dye for a young pitcher has made sense for this team as constructed since it was first proposed. Even if we have to chip in a couple million. Another advantage of a move like this...let's say Abreu's on a 1 year, $8 million deal. Unless he gets hurt, you'd be happy to offer him arbitration next offseason, because if he accepted, you have him back for 1 more cheap year. If he's remotely healthy, you can therefore turn him in to a pair of additional draft picks. Which means you'd be taking JD, who might walk as a FA next season if we don't pick up his option and turning him in to a young pitcher and 2 additional draft picks. Long term, that's a hell of a move. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 3, 2009 -> 12:41 PM) I understand that the market has changed for OF's quite a bit, but with Manny refusing to sign for anything anyone is going to offer, signing Abreu and moving Dye for a young pitcher has made sense for this team as constructed since it was first proposed. Even if we have to chip in a couple million. Another advantage of a move like this...let's say Abreu's on a 1 year, $8 million deal. Unless he gets hurt, you'd be happy to offer him arbitration next offseason, because if he accepted, you have him back for 1 more cheap year. If he's remotely healthy, you can therefore turn him in to a pair of additional draft picks. Which means you'd be taking JD, who might walk as a FA next season if we don't pick up his option and turning him in to a young pitcher and 2 additional draft picks. Long term, that's a hell of a move. I think Kenny is starting to see the benefit of the addional draft picks due to a FA leaving. Even though OC probably wont give us an additional pick, its not a bad philosophy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Feb 3, 2009 -> 10:42 AM) I think Kenny is starting to see the benefit of the addional draft picks due to a FA leaving. Even though OC probably wont give us an additional pick, its not a bad philosophy. I still think OC will sign with someone for cheap. Hard to believe he won't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 That $8 million baseline is very appealing. The Yankees would have had to pay him a minimum of $12.8 million this year, but there would have been no guarantees of winning had they gone to arbitration...the risk is much, much less offering to Abreu (assuming he doesn't get injured or fall off the map) than it was to Cabrera. Cabrera was all about pride, ego, the showdown with KW/OG against his Cabrera's best business interests. The last MLB TR story about him had the A's picking him up after the June player draft (nixing the comp. to the SOX) for around $2-3 million, then him heading into the offseason as a Type B or C Free Agent and much more attractive to other clubs. Right now, it's killing Juan Cruz, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan562004 Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 I know it necessarily doesn't mean anything, but has AM 1000 or WSCR reporting anything on this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted February 3, 2009 Author Share Posted February 3, 2009 Bobby Abreu at $8 million is a steal, btw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCSox Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Feb 3, 2009 -> 10:16 AM) I honestly dont even care if they steal bases. I just see the scenario of a hitter getting on base in front of Q. Q singles and the runner is only at 2nd base, and all of a sudden you have eliminated a sac fly op for Thome or Konerko who both have the ability to hit fly balls on demand. Instead you get a K and a ground out. I just HATE the station to station bulls*** and the lack of being able to take the extra base when needed. You can look at a small sample size of the 05 team in the World Series and the ALCS and you can see us constantly looking to take the extra base, even though we hit a ton of homers, we scored several times just being able to get to second on a throw or go from first to third with one out. Agreed that stealing bases isn't really a necessity, and that getting to that extra base on a hit is probably the greatest benefit. However, the THREAT of stealing a base is also a bonus, taking the focus of the opposing pitcher off of the hitter. QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Feb 3, 2009 -> 10:36 AM) Well, Abreu does indeed solve the #2 hitter issue. If we do sign him, I am 95% sure that one of Dye or Konerko (probably Dye) is getting traded very soon. It would almost certainly be Dye. His recent health/productivity issues and price tag would be major obstacles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan562004 Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Feb 3, 2009 -> 12:47 PM) Bobby Abreu at $8 million is a steal, btw. completely agree, obviously someone has to be moved, but he's a great #2 hitter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 (edited) I don't understand why Abreu is considered a perfect #2 hitter. He's a guy who takes a lot of pitches, yes, but if the White Sox don't have a protypical leadoff man who steals bases, so what? He also strikes out a lot. Why put a guy who hits 20 homers with a .300 avg, drives in 100 and gets on base at a .400 clip in a position where he undoubtedly would have to give himself up a lot? Maybe he could leadoff. Edited February 3, 2009 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 Just for the record: comparing Abreu's defensive prospects as a CF to the likes of Griffey and Swisher is an insult to Nick and Jr. Abreu in CF wouldn't just be an undesirable situation, it would likely be a disaster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 I personally think Abreu could hit 3 and Q 4. 1. Someone 2. Getz 3. Abreu 4. Q 5 Thome 6. Konerko 7. AJP 8 Fields 9 Alexei-this is where he has performed the best Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Feb 3, 2009 -> 12:53 PM) I don't understand why Abreu is considered a perfect #2 hitter. He's a guy who takes a lot of pitches, yes, but if the White Sox don't have a protypical leadoff man who steals bases, so what? He also strikes out a lot. Why put a guy who hits 20 homers with a .300 avg, drives in 100 and gets on base at a .400 clip in a position where he undoubtedly would have to give himself up a lot? Maybe he could leadoff. Interesting. Have him lead off, and have Getz/Lillibridge behind him. That would protect the rookie combo too, with Abreu and TCQ on either side, allowing the rookies to get more good pitches to hit. Abreu is high OBP, and does have some speed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess Dye Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 (edited) I think you maximize the ballclub's hitting talent more with Abreu in #2 than AJP, but thats me. EDIT: but oh yea Abreu leading off. very open to that. under those circumstances then you can think BA's cf and making up for some of Abreu's defensive deficiencies. Edited February 3, 2009 by Princess Dye Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DukeNukeEm Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 You cannot bat Alexei Ramirez 9th. Sorry, just not happening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (DukeNukeEm @ Feb 3, 2009 -> 12:56 PM) You cannot bat Alexei Ramirez 9th. Sorry, just not happening. Why exactly? He hit .379 .408 .537 in the 9th spot last season in 30 games. He spent most of the season in the 7,8.9 spot if you remember with his best results coming in the 9 hole and second best out of the 8th spot. His OPS in the 9th spot was .945 which compares to the 8th: .882 7th: .697 He gets the benefit of having people on base in front of him and also adding some speed to the lineup as it turns over. He is a power/speed/RBI threat at the bottom of the order which is perfect IMO. Edited February 3, 2009 by RockRaines Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess Dye Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Feb 3, 2009 -> 12:59 PM) Why exactly? He hit .379 .408 .537 in the 9th spot last season in 30 games. He spent most of the season in the 7,8.9 spot if you remember with his best results coming in the 9 hole and second best out of the 8th spot. His OPS in the 9th spot was .945 which compares to the 8th: .882 7th: .697 But what about our other options for say 7th hitter? Do we use Alexei where he's best or where the team's best? Man i cant keep this thing on Abreu myself. 'Slike a virus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macsandz Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Feb 3, 2009 -> 12:55 PM) I personally think Abreu could hit 3 and Q 4. 1. Someone 2. Getz 3. Abreu 4. Q 5 Thome 6. Konerko 7. AJP 8 Fields 9 Alexei-this is where he has performed the best 2.Getz 3.Abreu -Ozzie would have to break up the leftys. If Owens leads off, that would be 3 in a row. He'd NEVER DO THAT. That's why Lilibridge has such an advantage as a lead off hitter. He's RH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Feb 3, 2009 -> 12:55 PM) I personally think Abreu could hit 3 and Q 4. 1. Someone 2. Getz 3. Abreu 4. Q 5 Thome 6. Konerko 7. AJP 8 Fields 9 Alexei-this is where he has performed the best Alexei in the #2 spot = ~750 PA Alexei in the #6 spot = ~680 PA Alexei in the #9 spot = ~620 PA Is it really worth limiting his PAs like this because he got hot for 100 PA in the 9th spot last season? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
103 mph screwball Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 I'd welcome Abreu for 8 million. I agree that he will be nice batting leadoff or second in front of TCQ. If this move does happen, there almost has to be another move. I'm sure that will get the rumor mill going around here. How difficult is it for an outfielder to switch to 1b? If Konerko is moved, could Dye or Abreu play 1st without killing the infield defense? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 QUOTE (Kalapse @ Feb 3, 2009 -> 01:02 PM) Alexei in the #2 spot = ~750 PA Alexei in the #6 spot = ~680 PA Alexei in the #9 spot = ~620 PA Is it really worth limiting his PAs like this because he got hot for 100 PA in the 9th spot last season? Are you really going to move Konerko to put Alexei there? Alexei is an option in the 2hole or the 8th and the 9th as I see it. Although he is a good contact hitter (which is gold at the bottom of the order as he works pitchers out), his OBP still doesnt warrant him moving ahead of the boppers unless its in the 2 spot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 A few months ago I made a comment that Abreu may be the guy the Sox bring in. It seems KW has liked him in the past. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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