mr_genius Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 5, 2009 -> 03:17 PM) Senator DeMint's website I love this. You guys spend a week going crazy about the CBO report that says that only 79% of the stimulus will be out the door by 2011. Such ineffective stimulus...it won't be nearly fast enough! Senator Demint proposes huge tax breaks that won't hit until 2011 and after. You guys cheer. start the tax cuts right now. why wait? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 5, 2009 -> 03:17 PM) Senator DeMint's website I love this. You guys spend a week going crazy about the CBO report that says that only 79% of the stimulus will be out the door by 2011. Such ineffective stimulus...it won't be nearly fast enough! Senator Demint proposes huge tax breaks that won't hit until 2011 and after. You guys cheer. I'm not cheering at all. I saying this is BS politics. I thought that was pretty clear from my post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr_genius Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 http://newsblogs.chicagotribune.com/clout_...oject-list.html Mayor Richard Daley said today Chicago has compiled a wish list of "shovel-ready projects" to spend federal economic stimulus funds on should Congress approve a plan. Unlike hundreds of other cities, however, Daley said Chicago won't make its list public. Of course not. Imagine what's in this 'stimulus' spending. I can hardly wait to read the posts about how any spending is good spending; it's going to be great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 QUOTE (mr_genius @ Feb 5, 2009 -> 03:16 PM) I like the things listed there. The GOP should vote for that (unless there is trillions in BS spending on top of those tax cuts). But I need a reliable source on this, TPM is basically a joke. Like a lot of the "stimulus" bill, I think those are good ideas but they're just not stimuli. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 WILLIAMSBURG, Va. — A fired-up Barack Obama ditched his TelePrompter to rally House Democrats and rip Republican opponents of his recovery package Thursday night – at one point openly mocking the GOP for failing to follow through on promises of bipartisanship. In what was the most pointedly partisan speech of his young presidency, Obama rejected Republican arguments that massive spending in the $819 billion stimulus bill that passed the House should be replaced by a new round of massive tax cuts. “I welcome this debate, but we are not going to get relief by turning back to the same policies that for the last eight years doubled the national debt and threw our economy into a tailspin,” said President Obama – sounding more like Candidate Obama than at any time since he took the oath of office less than a month ago. Obama, speaking to about 200 House Democrats at their annual retreat at the Kingsmill Resort and Spa, dismissed Republican attacks against the massive spending in the stimulus. "What do you think a stimulus is?" Obama asked incredulously. "It’s spending — that's the whole point! Seriously.” The rest at link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 QUOTE (lostfan @ Feb 6, 2009 -> 07:28 AM) The rest at link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted February 6, 2009 Author Share Posted February 6, 2009 QUOTE (mr_genius @ Feb 5, 2009 -> 04:23 PM) http://newsblogs.chicagotribune.com/clout_...oject-list.html Of course not. Imagine what's in this 'stimulus' spending. I can hardly wait to read the posts about how any spending is good spending; it's going to be great. Gawd I hope the Fullerton/Damen/Elston intersection is near the top of that list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Feb 6, 2009 -> 07:43 AM) Gawd I hope the Fullerton/Damen/Elston intersection is near the top of that list. I go out of my way to avoid that intersection at all costs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 The POTUS seems like he's starting to realize the media is outworking him against this bill. A lot of these remarks were off the cuff, straying from the teleprompter. "[W]hen we announced the bill, you remember -- this is only about, what, two weeks ago? When we announced the framework -- and we were complimented by Republicans, saying, 'Boy, this is a balanced package, we're pleasantly surprised." And suddenly, what was a balanced package needs to be put out of balance?" ... "[Y]ou get the argument, 'Well, this is not a stimulus bill, this is a spending bill.' What do you think a stimulus is? That's the whole point. No, seriously. That's the point." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr_genius Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Feb 6, 2009 -> 07:43 AM) Gawd I hope the Fullerton/Damen/Elston intersection is near the top of that list. oh man that intersection is so messed up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 JOB LOSSES The blue line = 1990 The red line = 2001 The green line = Now Over the last 13 months, our economy has lost a total of 3.6 million jobs... But the president is just a fear-mongering hoax peddler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Feb 6, 2009 -> 02:16 PM) JOB LOSSES I'm a fan of the employment to population ratio (the first year on this graph is 1985). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cknolls Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 3, 2009 -> 11:06 AM) Question for all of you who keep saying "This isn't stimulus". What exactly do you think a government stimulus is? Something that does not increase the baseline budget the following year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Feb 6, 2009 -> 04:16 PM) JOB LOSSES It would nice if he would actually presents a stimulus plan that gets most of the money into the economy THIS YEAR to actually start to fix the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 QUOTE (Cknolls @ Feb 6, 2009 -> 04:35 PM) Something that does not increase the baseline budget the following 6 years. Corrected for accuracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 Compromise reached after centrist Senators agree to cut 600,000 jobs from the economy. If only they'd allow me to write the headlines sometimes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kapkomet Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 7, 2009 -> 06:37 PM) Compromise reached after centrist Senators agree to cut 600,000 jobs from the economy. If only they'd allow me to write the headlines sometimes... These job numbers are all bulls*** anyway. It's just to add to the dramatics of the whole thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 QUOTE (kapkomet @ Feb 7, 2009 -> 04:59 PM) These job numbers are all bulls*** anyway. It's just to add to the dramatics of the whole thing. You're right. Considering that the Senate cuts are some of the most effective and rapid parts, it could well be over a million. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Showtime Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/02/07/sti...cuts/index.html I haven't really been following this whole stimulus deal outside of what I see on yahoo and I have to ask if they cut the things in the link what the heck did they keep in? More non-sense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 (edited) http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123360930255440715.html Very good article on lessons that can be culled from the Japanese "lost decade" and the spending stimulus plan they erected. Totally agree with the concerns about some of the recent cuts (by the Senate) having the most detrimental affect on the bill. I ALMOST wish they would just start over from scratch and dare the Republicans to come up with their bill that's not totally based on tax breaks. Tinkering around with the AMT....none of these things will get the economy going/consuming again, because the last tax refund ended up being applied to credit card debt, car loans, mortgages, home loans. It's GOOD, of course, that we (as individuals and as a country) start paying down our debts, but the stimulative effect of that is very minimal at best. How many Americans are going to rush out and invest in their businesses or buy stocks (how can you trust any segment of the economy right now?) Not very many...of course, the super-smart and richest always use these situations to their advantage, whether it's buying up foundering real estate for the future or running their competitors out of business, but the average/middle-class families are just hanging in there and fighting to get through the winter's heating bills and paying off Christmas purchases. But to summarize the WSJ article: 1) Don't build roads and bridges that are unnecessary, just to put people back to work...because there will be no long-term benefits 2) Do invest in education and health care, buildings, weatherizing/energy efficiency, "green jobs," technology, innovation, R&D, math and science In other words, invest in human capital... Edited February 8, 2009 by caulfield12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Feb 7, 2009 -> 08:56 PM) 2) Do invest in education and health care, buildings, weatherizing/energy efficiency, "green jobs," technology, innovation, R&D, math and science In other words, invest in human capital... Notably, a lot of the big cuts in the centrist senator compromise bill were exactly those programs. The NSF, research funds, energy efficiency, school repair, Pell Grants, etc. They were basically cut to make room for that amt adjustment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr_genius Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Feb 7, 2009 -> 10:56 PM) http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123360930255440715.html Very good article on lessons that can be culled from the Japanese "lost decade" and the spending stimulus plan they erected. Totally agree with the concerns about some of the recent cuts (by the Senate) having the most detrimental affect on the bill. I ALMOST wish they would just start over from scratch and dare the Republicans to come up with their bill that's not totally based on tax breaks. Tinkering around with the AMT....none of these things will get the economy going/consuming again, because the last tax refund ended up being applied to credit card debt, car loans, mortgages, home loans. It's GOOD, of course, that we (as individuals and as a country) start paying down our debts, but the stimulative effect of that is very minimal at best. How many Americans are going to rush out and invest in their businesses or buy stocks (how can you trust any segment of the economy right now?) Not very many...of course, the super-smart and richest always use these situations to their advantage, whether it's buying up foundering real estate for the future or running their competitors out of business, but the average/middle-class families are just hanging in there and fighting to get through the winter's heating bills and paying off Christmas purchases. But to summarize the WSJ article: 1) Don't build roads and bridges that are unnecessary, just to put people back to work...because there will be no long-term benefits 2) Do invest in education and health care, buildings, weatherizing/energy efficiency, "green jobs," technology, innovation, R&D, math and science In other words, invest in human capital... Unfortunately, the stimulus bills the Democrats will push through will be just as bad, if not worse than Japan's. Debt also really made things worse for Japan. We are going down the same path, except possibly worse. Edited February 8, 2009 by mr_genius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cknolls Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 QUOTE (kapkomet @ Feb 7, 2009 -> 06:59 PM) These job numbers are all bulls*** anyway. It's just to add to the dramatics of the whole thing. Right. Messiah started with "I will create X million jobs." Now he will SAVE or CREATE 3-4 million jobs. Good enough for gov't work, I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 QUOTE (mr_genius @ Feb 8, 2009 -> 05:17 PM) Debt also really made things worse for Japan. We are going down the same path, except possibly worse. But the economy can't function without the government spending more than they take in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 anyone listen to Planet Money on NPR? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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