daa84 Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 the truth is that nobody is 100% clean i dont think..maybe tony gwynn and ripken were...but you never know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wsgdf_2 Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 QUOTE (fathom @ Feb 7, 2009 -> 10:46 AM) Because he's the best pure hitter I've seen in my lifetime...but like you said, he does look like a PED user and there's been tons of speculation about him being on PEDs. I'd take Frank over him, though they're obviously really really close... but at first glance I'd say the numbers actually favor Frank and since I watched almost all of his first 5,000 at bats or so I'd have to say I'm a little biased. In my perfect world Pujols is exposed and Thomas stands alone... lol. Fingers crossed a positive Thomas test isn't out there somewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wsgdf_2 Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 QUOTE (daa84 @ Feb 7, 2009 -> 10:55 AM) the truth is that nobody is 100% clean i dont think..maybe tony gwynn and ripken were...but you never know I disagree. If I had gotten that far I wouldn't have used them... I'm sure there are a lot of players who feel the same way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reddy Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 goddamnit this is sad. at this rate you might as well just make roids legal... ya know, like they made wearing gloves in the field legal... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 QUOTE (wsgdf_2 @ Feb 7, 2009 -> 05:01 PM) I disagree. If I had gotten that far I wouldn't have used them... I'm sure there are a lot of players who feel the same way. I could see someone like J.D. Drew being 100% clean, as he has a strong religious background that frowns upon taking drugs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo's Drinker Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 wait what is that, Ryne Sandberg tested positive. haha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 QUOTE (Jimbo's Drinker @ Feb 7, 2009 -> 05:03 PM) wait what is that, Ryne Sandberg tested positive. haha huh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pumpkin Escobar Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 All the more reason Frank Thomas is the greatest hitter of this generation....And EVER. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reddy Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 QUOTE (fathom @ Feb 7, 2009 -> 11:03 AM) I could see someone like J.D. Drew being 100% clean, as he has a strong religious background that frowns upon taking drugs. yeah because i've never met a religious hypocrite. what about his body breaking down? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zenryan Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 Kinda funny hearing Barry Larkin on the MLB Network saying how disappointed he is A-Rod. I looked up Larkin's power numbers: 1991 123 games, 20 HRs 1992 140 games, 12 HRs 1993 100 games, 8 HRs 1994 110 games, 9 HRs 1995 131 games, 15 HRs Free agent season 1996 152 games, 33 HRs 1997 77 games, 4 HRs 1998 145 games, 17HRs 1999 161 games, 12 HRs 2000 102 games, 11 HRs It's real easy for players from the 90s to run their mouths because there is no way to go back and see if they were cheating or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 QUOTE (Reddy @ Feb 7, 2009 -> 06:21 PM) yeah because i've never met a religious hypocrite. what about his body breaking down? No, but there's been articles about how he's the cleanest player in baseball. Doesn't drink, tobacco, any of that stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 This is surpising to me only from that fact that if someone is taking them someone in the locker rooms starts to talk and there is some rumors. I personally did not hear any od the A-Rod ones. He must have been very discrete about it. As far as Puljols goes, there has been talk about him since he was drafted ala Mike Piazza. Again I'm not saying he is for sure but you hear the talk in the locker rooms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joejoesox Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 this shouldn't surprise anyone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitetrain8601 Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 It's not surprising and as soon as Canseco made those claims, I thought he did the dirty deed. I mean, look at him from his latter Mariners days and then look at him in Texas, all the way up to NY. He turned super super buff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wsgdf_2 Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 QUOTE (fathom @ Feb 7, 2009 -> 11:03 AM) I could see someone like J.D. Drew being 100% clean, as he has a strong religious background that frowns upon taking drugs. LOL - I don't frown against using drugs... I just hate cheating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan101 Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 If Jose Canseco says somebody used steriods, it's pretty clear they did. It's sad that somebody like that is the authority on this stuff, but it's true. The only 3 guys that even can be considered clean of relevance anymore are Thomas, Griffey, and Thome. And you can't even be sure with them anymore, just pretty sure. Another guy knocked out of the hall of fame today in A-Rod. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 It just baffles me how a guy of that stature, tests positive for 2 illegal steroids, and nothing is done about it. Selig should be fired for looking the other way on all this, now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longshot7 Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 I feel bad for the guy. The media seems out to get him, no? As a side note, I think all steroids and PEDs should be legal - they make the game better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 QUOTE (ptatc @ Feb 7, 2009 -> 11:29 AM) This is surpising to me only from that fact that if someone is taking them someone in the locker rooms starts to talk and there is some rumors. I personally did not hear any od the A-Rod ones. He must have been very discrete about it. As far as Puljols goes, there has been talk about him since he was drafted ala Mike Piazza. Again I'm not saying he is for sure but you hear the talk in the locker rooms. David Kaplan was on Comcast the other day telling a story of how he went to interview Piazza one day and Piazza had to change his shirt or something. His back was completely covered with zits. Its dissappointing to hear about ARod, I really thought he was clean, but I do feel sorry for him in the sense that these tests were supposed to be confidential. I'm sure if they were not, most players wouldn't have taken them. Its dirty pool to leak the information now. I don't see how naming names 6 years later is really going to do anyone any good. Mark McGwire was right about one thing, its time to move forward. I'm just assuming most players used during the "steroid era", and for things like HOF consideration, the players who played in that era should be compared to the peers. Its probably not fair to the clean guys, but so be it. If Frank Thomas was clean, and we have every reason to believe he was, it makes his accomplishments more spectacular. I wasn't a fan of his attitude, but for a long while, he was a good as it gets offensively. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan101 Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (longshot7 @ Feb 7, 2009 -> 12:03 PM) As a side note, I think all steroids and PEDs should be legal - they make the game better. You have the right to think that and I can definitely see a case made for your side of the debate. But at the same time, they aren't legal, and thus all of these guys that did take them are cheaters and should be looked down upon accordingly in my opinion. On a side note, baseball and football of the last few decades are starting to look like nothing more than wrestling without the fixed outcomes (and some would even argue the last part of that statement with how officiating is at times). I saw a story on ESPN how the 1963 San Diego Chargers, who won the AFL, were the first team to really use steroids. I didn't realize it went back THAT far, and it's just sad to see these sort of things. Edited February 7, 2009 by whitesoxfan101 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 QUOTE (whitesoxfan101 @ Feb 7, 2009 -> 12:30 PM) You have the right to think that and I can definitely see a case made for your side of the debate. But at the same time, they aren't legal, and thus all of these guys that did take them are cheaters and should be looked down upon accordingly in my opinion. On a side note, baseball and football of the last few decades are starting to look like nothing more than wrestling without the fixed outcomes (and some would even argue the last part of that statement with how officiating is at times). I saw a story on ESPN how the 1963 San Diego Chargers, who won the AFL, were the first team to really use steroids. I didn't realize it went back THAT far, and it's just sad to see these sort of things. Even now, if you get busted in the NFL, you get a 4 week vacation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 Well, that's fairly surprising I'd say. Crap. Stay Clean, Albert. And just to comment again...if you're testing positive in 2003...they WARNED EVERYONE MONTHS IN ADVANCE THE TESTS WERE COMING. You knew coming in to the season that you needed to clean out your system before the tests, and then you were probably fine the rest of the year, and 10% of baseball still tested positive. Idiots. And another aspect of this story that no one has mentionned yet here...the SI writers are saying that MLBPA COO Gene Orza was directly involved in tipping off players in 2004 that additional tests were coming their way, including ARod. I wonder if he's had to testify about that enough that he might face charges if he denied doing that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitewashed in '05 Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 QUOTE (fathom @ Feb 7, 2009 -> 11:26 AM) If the mods/admins give me the go ahead, I will give hints. So who was the third? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Tizzle Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 QUOTE (fathom @ Feb 7, 2009 -> 10:17 AM) Not a surprise...I told some people on here about a story I heard how when the Yankees were visiting the Cell a few years ago, there were 3 players that asked an individual to hook them up with PEDs. 2 of those players were ARod and Giambi. I remember. I looked back through my PMs -- you mentioned it May 7, 2007. Honestly, though, I believe Rodriguez is going to be the player that shifts the consensus among voters that steroid users should be excluded from the HOF. He'll probably admit his mistakes (more so after the completion of his career) and spend a significant amount of time educating the youth of America. You know, bulls*** that everyone knows won't change these kids' minds about steroids; but will look good to the HOF voters. And if Pujols is ever found to have taken PEDS (which I know I've read speculated around here), they'll have a REAL big problem keeping their moral high ground of excluding known steroid users from the Hall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 QUOTE (Whitewashed in '05 @ Feb 7, 2009 -> 12:56 PM) So who was the third? Keep it in PMs. No reason to be throwing that s*** around on a very public forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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