JOE.CREDE. = Twinkie

[Jordan4life_2007]

Can you prove this? I'll take any form of statistical proof, any. I'll even take splits stats even if they are unreliable. It's funny because a lot of very smart baseball people are of the belief that there is no such thing as a "clutch" hitter, just good hitters who do good things in big situations because they're good but even when a Sabermetrician like Bill James or Nate Silver attempts to quantify "clutch hitting" Joe Crede's name NEVER comes up. I've seen Mike Sweeney (the perpetually injured) and Chipper Jones (the great) and even Geoff Jenkins (the average) but never Joe Crede. The only people who seem to believe that he's anything more than a mediocre offensive player are Sox fans and Hawk but none of these people ever bother to back up this belief, just perpetuate it as fact. I've mentioned this in the past and no one has ever bothered to acknowledge it, could it be that the man has just come through in a few very memorable "clutch" situations and this has berthed an undeserved reputation? (it would hardly be the first time)

 

Oh and his 0.5 BB/K and .267/.325/.435/.760 career line against relief pitching hardly scares me, Linebrink and Dotel will handle him just fine.

 

Yeah, I know it's blasphemy but I'm not fearing the crippled, pull hitting, popup machine. Just looking now, Bill James has him down for 302 AB, 14 HR, 0.5 BB/K, .255/.312/.447/.759 next year. Look out.

 

Did Joe Crede steal your GF or something? I notice that anytime anybody attempts to give him even a shred of credit you come swooping in with all this Bills James, Sabermetrics, Bible awards, zone rating, ect in an all out attempt to dismiss him as some bottom-tier third baseman who did nothing for the franchise save October, 2005.

 

You're asking for proof of Crede's clutchness? Are you serious? A Sox fan? Who gives a s*** if Crede doesn't make some Bill James list. Do you want a list of games from 2004, '05 and '06 in which Crede saved our asses? I expect somebody from the east coast to have no clue about anything not Yankees/Redsox, but c'mon now. Am I glad Crede is gone? Yes. He's too much of an injury risk and is no longer a fit with this franchise. That's fine. But don't try and discredit all the good that he did here when healthy with this endless barrage of new-aged statistical formulas (i.e. he's not good if Bill James doesn't say so) that are flawed to begin with. Ain't nothin' like actually watching the games. Bill James be damned.

Edited February 21, 2009 by Jordan4life

[NorthSideSox72]

Well, I'd rather he didn't end up with a division rival. But he had to go somewhere, not the Sox.

 

I will miss Joe Crede. The only official jersey I've owned in my adult years is a black alternate Crede jersery. I loved watching him play 3B, where, until his back problems became too much, he was one of the best among current players. And, again prior to the back, I think he was coming into his own as a hitter. He was never going to hit for a high average with any regularity, or walk much, or provide much speed. But I think he is capable, when healthy, of very good production, mostly via power.

 

Good luck, Joe. Except against the Sox.

 

 

[YASNY]

As far as I'm concerned, Joe Crede was the Sox MVP for the '05 stretch run and post season. If that doesn't define clutch, I don't know what does. And don't go pull up some stats that shows someone else hit better through that stretch as Crede, in addition to some HUGE clutch hits, also made quite a few HUGE clutch defensive plays. I think sometimes people forget the fact that though we swept the Astros, we only outscored them by a combined 6 runs in the 4 games. Great pitching, I know, but Joe Crede was nails at 3B.

[Texsox]

As far as I'm concerned, Joe Crede was the Sox MVP for the '05 stretch run and post season. If that doesn't define clutch, I don't know what does. And don't go pull up some stats that shows someone else hit better through that stretch as Crede, in addition to some HUGE clutch hits, also made quite a few HUGE clutch defensive plays. I think sometimes people forget the fact that though we swept the Astros, we only outscored them by a combined 6 runs in the 4 games. Great pitching, I know, but Joe Crede was nails at 3B.

But f*** him, toss him out with the garbage.

[Milkman delivers]

Did Joe Crede steal your GF or something? I notice that anytime anybody attempts to give him even a shred of credit you come swooping in with all this Bills James, Sabermetrics, Bible awards, zone rating, ect in an all out attempt to dismiss him as some bottom-tier third baseman who did nothing for the franchise save October, 2005.

 

You're asking for proof of Crede's clutchness? Are you serious? A Sox fan? Who gives a s*** if Crede doesn't make some Bill James list. Do you want a list of games from 2004, '05 and '06 in which Crede saved our asses? I expect somebody from the east coast to have no clue about anything not Yankees/Redsox, but c'mon now. Am I glad Crede is gone? Yes. He's too much of an injury risk and is no longer a fit with this franchise. That's fine. But don't try and discredit all the good that he did here when healthy with this endless barrage of new-aged statistical formulas (i.e. he's not good if Bill James doesn't say so) that are flawed to begin with. Ain't nothin' like actually watching the games. Bill James be damned.

 

Joe Crede made a reputation on this site for being one of the best players on the team in the span of half of a year (September 2005 through the break of 2006). Other than that time frame, he was never anything more than mediocre. I watched the games, too.

[Milkman delivers]

But f*** him, toss him out with the garbage.

 

Nobody is saying that. He just wasn't as good as he's being eulogized as on this site. We're trying to say that we won't miss him as much as some think, and he won't hurt us as much as some think.

Edited February 21, 2009 by Milkman delivers

[Milkman delivers]

Well, I'd rather he didn't end up with a division rival. But he had to go somewhere, not the Sox.

 

I will miss Joe Crede. The only official jersey I've owned in my adult years is a black alternate Crede jersery. I loved watching him play 3B, where, until his back problems became too much, he was one of the best among current players. And, again prior to the back, I think he was coming into his own as a hitter. He was never going to hit for a high average with any regularity, or walk much, or provide much speed. But I think he is capable, when healthy, of very good production, mostly via power.

 

Good luck, Joe. Except against the Sox.

 

I wish Crede nothing but the worst in 2009. He'll be on a division rival. I don't want him to do well even when he's not facing us. It hurts our chances in the long run.

[YASNY]

Joe Crede made a reputation on this site for being one of the best players on the team in the span of half of a year (September 2005 through the break of 2006). Other than that time frame, he was never anything more than mediocre. I watched the games, too.

 

I just know this much. I'm 51 years old and have been a Sox fan as long as I can remember. I have seen the Sox in the World Series exactly one time, and Joe F'n Crede was a big reason that happened. He will always have my respect unless he does something stupid like PED's or something to that effect. I don't put him on a pedestal (sp?) and I know he's never been more than a solid MLB player when healthy, and his ability to stay healthy is iffy at best, but Joe Crede will always be near the top of my list as favorite players to wear the Sox uniform.

[Texsox]

I watch the game too, and in about 30+ years of watching, he's the second best 3b we've had.

[YASNY]

I watch the game too, and in about 30+ years of watching, he's the second best 3b we've had.

 

Agreed. Only Robin Ventura was better.

[daa84]

Can you prove this? I'll take any form of statistical proof, any. I'll even take splits stats even if they are unreliable. It's funny because a lot of very smart baseball people are of the belief that there is no such thing as a "clutch" hitter, just good hitters who do good things in big situations because they're good but even when a Sabermetrician like Bill James or Nate Silver attempts to quantify "clutch hitting" Joe Crede's name NEVER comes up. I've seen Mike Sweeney (the perpetually injured) and Chipper Jones (the great) and even Geoff Jenkins (the average) but never Joe Crede. The only people who seem to believe that he's anything more than a mediocre offensive player are Sox fans and Hawk but none of these people ever bother to back up this belief, just perpetuate it as fact. I've mentioned this in the past and no one has ever bothered to acknowledge it, could it be that the man has just come through in a few very memorable "clutch" situations and this has berthed an undeserved reputation? (it would hardly be the first time)

 

Oh and his 0.5 BB/K and .267/.325/.435/.760 career line against relief pitching hardly scares me, Linebrink and Dotel will handle him just fine.

 

Yeah, I know it's blasphemy but I'm not fearing the crippled, pull hitting, popup machine. Just looking now, Bill James has him down for 302 AB, 14 HR, 0.5 BB/K, .255/.312/.447/.759 next year. Look out.

i agree with you kalapse, but you should know by now that on this site trying to cite intelligent statistics that have their foundations in years upon years of statistical analysis will always be met with the "did you watch those games?" and "those stats are meaningless" type responses. but you are right

[klaus kinski]

When he went with Boras he told ME he didnt want to be here. Adios-thanks for what you did here-and apparently couldnt wait to leave.

 

I am not concerned about them getting an oft injured 250 hitter that will just slow down their line up

[Texsox]

i agree with you kalapse, but you should know by now that on this site trying to cite intelligent statistics that have their foundations in years upon years of statistical analysis will always be met with the "did you watch those games?" and "those stats are meaningless" type responses. but you are right

 

Then why play the games? If statistical analysis is so foolproof, it would seem that it is unnecessary to actually play the games. Unless there are factors that cannot be predicted by the stats. Hmmm

 

Why do teams employ Scouts to go see a player? All they should need are the stats.

[BigSqwert]

Thank you Joe for all the good memories and helping us get that World Series title! Many of us will miss you.

 

 

 

 

[bigruss]

There is balance between the two arguments here. One side is saying stats beat out perception of a player, and that is true in that many times perception is changed by just one or two plays of greatness throughout a season mediocrity. The other is that perception beats out stats, that you know great defense or clutch hitting when you see it.

 

Crede was an integral part of the 2005 WS Champ. team, I personally raved about him then. Unfortunately, his back gave out and you all know the story, his defense went downhill, his offense was limited, and he became a frequent flier to the DL. That to me is not a player that I want if I am trying to make it to the playoffs again.

 

Thanks Joe Crede for all you have done for the White Sox. I wish you signed with the Giants so I could root for you more, but I wish you luck with the Twins as long a youre not playing verse us (thats my philosophy with any of my loved players, not just old Sox players). Now, Fields, Betemit, Viciedo, please fill those shoes so that we can have more of the great moments like those that Crede was a part of, because I know how I felt when we won the World Series, and I would lvoe to feel that again.

[ptatc]

Then why play the games? If statistical analysis is so foolproof, it would seem that it is unnecessary to actually play the games. Unless there are factors that cannot be predicted by the stats. Hmmm

 

Why do teams employ Scouts to go see a player? All they should need are the stats.

 

Don't you know you don't need to watch games. All you have to do is look at the stats after the game and it will tell you all you need to know. After all there is no emotion, confidence or feelings involved in baseball.

 

I listened to Dan Bernstein and that's all I need to know.

[Milkman delivers]

I just know this much. I'm 51 years old and have been a Sox fan as long as I can remember. I have seen the Sox in the World Series exactly one time, and Joe F'n Crede was a big reason that happened. He will always have my respect unless he does something stupid like PED's or something to that effect. I don't put him on a pedestal (sp?) and I know he's never been more than a solid MLB player when healthy, and his ability to stay healthy is iffy at best, but Joe Crede will always be near the top of my list as favorite players to wear the Sox uniform.

 

Totally agreed. I just think people are totally polarized here. If you don't think he was that great of a player, the other side thinks you hate him, and vice versa.

[Milkman delivers]

I watch the game too, and in about 30+ years of watching, he's the second best 3b we've had.

 

I'd say third, behind Perry and Ventura.

 

Also, I think your statement speaks more to the quality of our 3B's.

[SnB]

tip of the cap

[ThunderBolt]

This is good news for the White Sox. If Josh Field needed any more motivation to perform, here it is. With the rivalries between these two teams all Fields will have to do is pick up the paper to see the inevitable Crede comparison breathing down his neck, and with the type of personality Fields has this could be exactly what he needs to get his ass in gear.

[chw42]

I never like seeing ex-White Sox players in Twins uniforms, especially one that helped us win it all back in 05. I honestly don't see Crede being real healthy on that turf of theirs.

[Dick Allen]

Joe Crede helped the White Sox win the WS. He also was great in 2006 until September when his back gave out on him. 2007 was a lost season. 2008, he helped the White Sox win several games in April, just losing one may have meant no playoffs as it turned out, he tried to play hurt and couldn't go on anymore. If he is healthy, and the back is not causing him problems, he will be a big asset for the Twins. It was time for him to move on. He wasn't awesome as a White Sox. He wasn't a bum either. He was a better than average thirdbaseman overall who came up huge when the White Sox really needed him.

[Dick Allen]

I never like seeing ex-White Sox players in Twins uniforms, especially one that helped us win it all back in 05. I honestly don't see Crede being real healthy on that turf of theirs.

Maybe Minnesota will get the fever the White Sox had about acquiring Cleveland Indians players past their prime, except with ex-White Sox. I still think Crede can be a very good player if his back is alright. As far as the turf, its not the hard astroturf of years gone by.

[WilliamTell]

I wish Crede nothing but the worst in 2009. He'll be on a division rival. I don't want him to do well even when he's not facing us. It hurts our chances in the long run.

 

 

Agreed. Except I don't hope he gets injured again, I'll never hope and injury to a player. Dang this sucks.

[Dick Allen]

$2.5 million guaranteed. Up to $7 million with incentives.