Merge the USDA and FDA?

[HuskyCaucasian]

Via National Journal:

CongressDaily's Jerry Hagstrom reports (subscription) that Agriculture Secretary Tom Vilsack said today he favors a single food safety agency, but he has not decided whether it should be located in USDA's Food Safety and Inspection Service, the FDA or an independent agency.

 

Commenting on the salmonella peanut butter scandal, Vilsack told the U.S. Rice Federation that the issue of centralization is key because food safety is both a human health and market issue. "We are the only industrial nation to have two systems," Vilsack said, a reference to USDA's responsibility for meat, poultry and eggs and FDA's responsibility for most other food products.

 

Vilsack's statements have come as something of a surprise to lawmakers and lobbyists. Agribusiness has opposed the idea vigorously in the past, and lawmakers have found the job of reorganizing the food safety system daunting.

[kapkomet]

Um, no thank you.

 

[DukeNukeEm]

Um, no thank you.

Do you even like these agencies to begin with?

[southsider2k5]

Merge them. 100% yes. I would argue there are literally hundreds of places in our federal government where we would be doing this to eliminate duplicity and create efficency.

[NorthSideSox72]

Merge them. 100% yes. I would argue there are literally hundreds of places in our federal government where we would be doing this to eliminate duplicity and create efficency.

And improve communications between agencies.

 

[southsider2k5]

And improve communications between agencies.

 

100% agree. The biggest problem with our federal government is none of the agencies is set up to cooperate with the others that are related. Their budgets are separate, as are their workloads. Its actually a disincentive to work together, because they are more worried about their budget numbers, than their productivity.

[lostfan]

100% agree. The biggest problem with our federal government is none of the agencies is set up to cooperate with the others that are related. Their budgets are separate, as are their workloads. Its actually a disincentive to work together, because they are more worried about their budget numbers, than their productivity.

The intelligence community was like that until recently. It still kind of is but it's not as bad. I wrote a paper on this topic actually.

[NorthSideSox72]

The intelligence community was like that until recently. It still kind of is but it's not as bad. I wrote a paper on this topic actually.

The intelligence and law enforcement agencies were notorious for this. FBI, CIA, ATF, USSS, DEA, NSA et al were hugely competitive with one another, didn't like to share information, and were in different departments of government entirely. DHS was supposed to help that get better, but from what I have heard, DHS didn't do squat for that purpose. The improvements made, I am told, are more from within those agencies, on a one-to-one basis.

 

[lostfan]

The intelligence and law enforcement agencies were notorious for this. FBI, CIA, ATF, USSS, DEA, NSA et al were hugely competitive with one another, didn't like to share information, and were in different departments of government entirely. DHS was supposed to help that get better, but from what I have heard, DHS didn't do squat for that purpose. The improvements made, I am told, are more from within those agencies, on a one-to-one basis.

DHS is another animal altogether. I'm talking mainly about the agencies that fall under the Director of National Intelligence that used to have to fight each other all the time. What helped a great deal was having a really sharp ex-CIA guy (Gates) heading up the DoD, so he had a full understanding of budget issues and how things worked from all sides. Right now, the interagency cooperation and culture is based on the personality of these guys. This is all still very new, and it'll be the first change of administration. Keeping Gates was a good precedent to set.

[kapkomet]

USDA and FDA are two very different things. Now if you want to combine them only to eliminate duplicity, fine. B ut FDA does many different things then USDA, which is why my initial reaction.

[HuskyCaucasian]

USDA and FDA are two very different things. Now if you want to combine them only to eliminate duplicity, fine. B ut FDA does many different things then USDA, which is why my initial reaction.

I think the concept is to merge the two agencies that deal with the public's health with regards to ingested items. (that sounds a little rough, but you get the point). It might eliminate SOME duplicity... but its really mroe to help address food problems faster.

[StrangeSox]

USDA and FDA are two very different things. Now if you want to combine them only to eliminate duplicity, fine. B ut FDA does many different things then USDA, which is why my initial reaction.

 

But what about them both regulating different portions of our food industry? Shouldn't that fall under one agency?

[Texsox]

USDA and FDA are two very different things. Now if you want to combine them only to eliminate duplicity, fine. B ut FDA does many different things then USDA, which is why my initial reaction.

 

I'm kind of leaning towards Kap on this one. I feel drugs and food should be in two different agencies. Perhaps a better alignment of the two would be a plus. What caught my eye is the industry opposes it. Generally, I support the industry's position. I wonder why they do not want one agency.

[Texsox]

But what about them both regulating different portions of our food industry? Shouldn't that fall under one agency?

 

I believe it is by product. So they may not overlap. Kind of like, you take beef, I'll take carrots.

[Texsox]

100% agree. The biggest problem with our federal government is none of the agencies is set up to cooperate with the others that are related. Their budgets are separate, as are their workloads. Its actually a disincentive to work together, because they are more worried about their budget numbers, than their productivity.

 

In that regard they work like most private sector companies, more as competitors than partners. What I have a concern about is the cost of that communication.

[StrangeSox]

I believe it is by product. So they may not overlap. Kind of like, you take beef, I'll take carrots.

 

I think you're right, but why should it be that way?

[southsider2k5]

I think you're right, but why should it be that way?

 

Exactly. You want the same philosophy to move through the whole system, that way no matter your product you know what to expect. Otherwise you lead to confusion and contradictive rules.

[Texsox]

Exactly. You want the same philosophy to move through the whole system, that way no matter your product you know what to expect. Otherwise you lead to confusion and contradictive rules.

 

But if your company is either controlled by the FDA or USDA, why would there be any confusion or contradictory rules? It would seem that if the industry is against the merger, they are not suffering from those problems. They also probably see a future of "we did it that way when the FDA was inspecting, why are you now asking us for something different".

 

And what do we do with the inspectors? Hire new ones, move the existing ones to the new agency, who pays for relocation, etc. etc.

[southsider2k5]

But if your company is either controlled by the FDA or USDA, why would there be any confusion or contradictory rules? It would seem that if the industry is against the merger, they are not suffering from those problems. They also probably see a future of "we did it that way when the FDA was inspecting, why are you now asking us for something different".

 

And what do we do with the inspectors? Hire new ones, move the existing ones to the new agency, who pays for relocation, etc. etc.

 

What about companies who fall under both?

 

Personally, I believe all consumer protections should go under one agency.

[Texsox]

I think you're right, but why should it be that way?

 

We would have to see the product delineation to determine that. One area I remember reading about are food supplements. Are the simply foods or are they drugs?

 

The FDA seems to be more involved in food as it related to health issues. Food safety, supplements, nutrition, labeling, testing, etc. The USDA seems to be more involved in the growing, manufacturing, distribution, etc.

[southsider2k5]

We would have to see the product delineation to determine that. One area I remember reading about are food supplements. Are the simply foods or are they drugs?

 

The FDA seems to be more involved in food as it related to health issues. Food safety, supplements, nutrition, labeling, testing, etc. The USDA seems to be more involved in the growing, manufacturing, distribution, etc.

 

And those processes are 100% related to each other. How something is manufactured can have a direct bearing on how safe it is. etc. What something is grown in, can affect how it should be labeled.

[Texsox]

What about companies who fall under both?

 

Personally, I believe all consumer protections should go under one agency.

 

Manufacturers already interface with multiple government agencies. We would have to combine OSHA, FDA, USDA, IRS, Customs, Fire, perhaps INS, etc. As long as there are not conflicting regulations, it may not be a problem.

 

Again, all this is conjuncture to try to understand why the agribusiness industry does not want a merger. I agree, where there is overlap, it should be eliminated. However, after poking around both websites, it was unclear to me where the overlap might be.

[Texsox]

And those processes are 100% related to each other. How something is manufactured can have a direct bearing on how safe it is. etc. What something is grown in, can affect how it should be labeled.

 

Correct. Read both websites.

 

So you have a government agency (FDA) that already is testing new drugs to see if they are safe or not. Do you want the USDA to open a lab to perform similar tests on food items? Or do you want to combine all that testing in one agency? It's almost like outsourcing.

 

Then do you want the USDA to begin testing cosmetics, blood supplies, x-ray machines, etc.

or

Do you want the FDA to begin visiting farms and packing sheds and advocating for farms?

 

Combine all this into one mega agency sounds daunting and a recipe for a nightmare. Industry has gone small and faster, not larger and cumbersome. I think the government should follow that lead.

 

Plus the industry doesn't want it.

[bmags]

This thread is very interesting.

[Texsox]

This thread is very interesting.

 

I thought I knew what most of these government agencies did, until I had to research a couple. I'm not certain if I necessarily agree with the scope of what they are tasked with, but most are pretty damn amazing with all they do.