Here's what I don't understand from KW's perspective

[Jordan4life_2007]

Personally, I like the way this team is set up. I like the idea of the input of young blood on the team. For years, we've been reading the b****ing about this being an old, slow, station-to-station team. Well, it ain't going to change overnight, but it is in the process of changing. We added 4 very good fairly young ballplayers last year and have several possibilities to continue the trend this year. People point to CQ, ARam,Danks and Floyd and ask if we can expect that happen again with these new guys coming in. Probably not, but a lot of things didn't go right last year either and we still nabbed the division. We didn't get Hunter, Rowand or (thank God) Fukudome. Contreras, Crede, Jenks, Linebrink, Konerko, Uribe all spent time on the DL, I believe. Add to that Konerko's 4 months of suckiness, Contreras and Vazquez's inconsistencies on the mound, Swisher having an Erstadtesque season resulting in Dwayne AAAA Wise being in our starting lineup and of course, no TCQ down the stretch. There is a solid core of good young ballplayers and proven veterans on this team, and I see no reason to start the season standing on the ledge. Sure, it can all go in the crapper but it can be a wonderful, fun, magical year too. I'll do as always, go into it with reserved optimism and hope for the best.

 

When in doubt, I can always count on you to be the voice of reason.

 

I will admit there's times that I think we're gonna suck. Then there's times I think we can win 90-95 games. That's the fun part about it. Nobody has a clue on what's going to happen until the games start. I can't wait!

[greg775]

This is the year KW finds out which of our prospects can play.

Owens, BA, Fields, Getz, Clayton, Lillebridge, etc.

I am kind of looking forward to it.

I think it'd be great if our pitchers had good years. We need more consistent relief.

[Princess Dye]

This is the year KW finds out which of our prospects can play.

Owens, BA, Fields, Getz, Clayton, Lillebridge, etc.

I am kind of looking forward to it.

 

It's great, as long as the answer to the first line isnt "none"

[Jordan4life_2007]

Yeah, but the major benchmark for success in 2009 should not be winning a s***ty division and putting ourselves in a position to win 1 out of 4 playoff games against much stronger AL teams.

 

You mean winning the division is not the ultimate goal? YOU'RE KIDDING! Last I checked, you had to survive this little 162 game marathon before you're allowed to participate in the postseason. How we matchup with other teams from other divisions in February is as irrelevant as irrelevant can possibly get. Starting in April until the end of September, we have to be better than the Royals, Indians, Tigers and Twins.

[almagest]

Even if we accept the fact that CQ is a fantastic all-around ballplayer, how many individuals are able to his .290/30/100 year after year after year? How many that do break out with a single season like that are pitched much differently in year 2 and regress a bit?

We don't. But given his success in 2008, his college success, minor league numbers, and high projected ceiling, we can make a good guess that he'll be good next year. And really, there's not much of a weakness in his offensive game. Most of the hitters who regressed had a bad K/BB ratio, had an unexpected power surge, or had an abnormally high BABIP in their good season. Q was solid all around, except for his temper.

 

Even if we can establish that Gavin Floyd has come around and developed into a solid #3 starter, how do his peripherals suggest anything but a ceiling of 15-17 wins and a slightly above average ERA given his skill set/tools?

My main concern is that he's a flyball pitcher in our park. He's effectively wild, though I would like to see him start striking out a few more batters. I think his problem wasn't his stuff, it was his approach. Now that it appears to be solid, I think we can count on him for the numbers you suggest -- 15+ wins and an ERA around 4? I'd take that from him any day.

 

Is it likely that Ramirez will be able to have a similar season and have as many clutch hits?

Probably not. I think he's due for a regression more than any other player, and I'm still not convinced he's an everyday player. That said, he has a lightning-quick bat, can stay alive in at-bats very well, and knows how to hit. I think a .270/.300/.450 line from him is reasonable, and that's just fine from a #9 hitter. Hopefully he can play SS as well, because that's a concern.

 

Is it acceptable to just pencil John Danks in for another 3.32 ERA season - a season that was over 2 runs in ERA better than his previous?

Probably not, but I think he'll be just fine. Danks seems to "figure out" the league he's in after a year or so. His minor league numbers suggest this, and this continued in MLB. The cutter has helped him out tremendously, as well. If we can get an ERA right around 4 from him, I'd be happy.

 

Moreover, why are we even considering relying on guys like Contreras (injuries), Richard (little experience), Broadway (wayyyy unproven) as part of a competitive major league rotation?

I don't think we're relying on Broadway for anything. Richard will be in the bullpen (and be solid, like last year) unless he develops another pitch. I think the last spots will come down to Colon/Poreda/Marquez/another option we haven't considered, or hasn't signed yet. If Colon can be what he showed with the Red Sox before he got hurt (which is a concern), we worry about the 5th spot, which at the very least, Contreras will fill respectably after he comes back.

 

Why is Josh Fields going to work out at third base?

Because he hit .244/.308/.480, with 23 HR, in only 373 AB. He can actually take a walk. His minor league stats are good (.275/.359/.458 career, .817 OPS). He's a smart runner, with pretty good speed, who can go 1st-3rd and score from 2nd. He fixed the physical problems that plagued him last year, and has been working on conditioning and defense.

 

Who sees anything of value in Wilson Betimet and why?

He has good minor league numbers. He had an OPS+ above 100 4 out of his 6 major league seasons (coincidentally, the years he got the most ABs). He's not in New York any longer, a place players historically struggle, and rebound once they leave. He was a highly-ranked prospect, and made the majors at the age of 19. We're not relying on him to be anything more than a super-sub, which he should be able to do better than Uribe and Ozuna.

 

Why are incomplete and substandard guys like Brian Anderson, who has admittedly been screwed over at times by this organization, still being considered as starting pieces of the puzzle?

You already said one reason -- he's been screwed over by the Sox. He's fantastic defensively. He had a good minor league career, and plays well in spring training -- both times he gets consistent playing time. He's a doubles machine (23 in 365 AB in 2006, 13 in 181 AB last year). He has good power, and likely can top 20 HR in a full season. He doesn't look as lost as he used to at the plate. He's a good athlete, and can go 1st-3rd and score from 2nd. It's his make-or-break point, and I feel we can afford to give him 400+ AB, since our offense will be likely pretty solid, to see if he can cut it. If he can, and can reach the Torii Hunter-lite point I think is possible for him, we'll have our CF hole finally filled.

 

Why is this team still saddled with effectively 4 dh's, a problem we have wrestled with for going on 6 years?

We built our team around power, and rightfully so, given the launching pad we have. This is what happens as power hitters age. I would only consider Thome and Konerko DH candidates, though. Dye plays a mediocre RF (and should be in left, really).

 

I guess my main question is...where the bleeping hell is our insurance policy?

What teams have insurance policies, really? The ones that aren't the Yankees rely on AA/AAA talent, non-roster invitees, and scrap heap pickups to fill their rosters. We've been better at the latter two than most teams, and we're finally starting to get some quality talent in our minor leagues. Really, this is the most optimistic about the future of the Sox that I've been since 2000 (even though that didn't turn out so well)

[Pumpkin Escobar]

I didn't get to read everyone's comments but I wanted to throw my two cents in on this issue and the upcoming season.

 

I have been a supporter of a firesale since 2007. In 2007, my opinions were proven right. In 2008, they weren't. This year, I would prefer a firesale for the same reason that I don't mind not having one. That reason being that the division is somewhat wideopen.

 

In saying that, I think the Tigers last year were a bit of a fluke. I think theyre pitching will be better but I also think they are older and losing steam offensively. Guys like Sheff, Maggs, Guillen and Polanco didn't have huge years last season and it's tough to expect them to do much better this year just because of how old theyre getting. I do think guys like Verlander and Bonderman will bounce back a bit and I don't think Gallaraga or Jackson will repeat their moderate success in 08'. So basically, I think last year was a fluke yes but this year I don't think they're a lock to repeat 07' and see them as around a .500+ team.

 

Cleveland to me is in an interesting situation. Last year, we knew they had one great pitcher, no bullpen and some offense. This year, I feel like it's the same thing. They have Cliff Lee, a better bullpen and possibly some offense. If Carmona can bounce back, Reyes live up to his STL hype, and someone like LaPorta can step in and provide the power bat that Hafner has left vacant in that lineup, then I think theyll be a decent team and maybe a very good team.

 

The Twins will be the Twins. It's cliche and whatever you want to say but I can't describe how they manage to do it each year. They just do and I can only discribe it as hatred.

 

The Royals will be better. I love some of the pieces they have. I think Grienke is coming into his own. Gordon needs to break out this year. Jacobs was a nice power addition and one of my favorite people theyve added is Alberto Callapso. I think he has a chance to be their version of Placido Polanco and be a real catalyst for that lineup.

 

So that sums up the division but all I've told you is that everyone is mediocre it seems. To me, last year was a perfect time to firesale because no one thought we'd have a chance. Look what happened? This year, I'd like to firesale because guys are getting old and I think we should get some other good young pieces while our old men have value but the division is wideopen. So at the same time, it's a perfect chance to keep those guys and try to develop some of your own. Hoping those kids will learn from the veterans and while hoping the veterans can carry us.

 

Do I expect to win it this year? No. Part of me thinks that is the problem with Kenny Williams approach. He has put this team together to have a potential shot at winning the AL central. A bad bad AL central and I think most of us want him to build a WS contender. Some people say that is enough, others say we just need to get in and anything can happen...i agree with that sentiment but during the preseason, you can't bank on it. You want to bank on a legit team, legit prospects or potential in positions...you dont want to be relying on "last chance" kind of players. Which I feel is what we are doing. If Anderson doesnt win it, I don't think he'll ever do it. Same with Fields. Same with Owens. Same with Getz and some of our pitchers.

 

I'm very skeptical (not quite concerned) but skeptical on whether or not we'll see a repeat performance out of Alexi/Quentin/Danks. I know we won't see it out of Floyd. This is what makes this year a little tougher to swallow because we aren't banking on the usual Paulie/Dye/Thome thing because theyre slipping a bit (maybe not Dye). We are hoping theyll not fall off but we seem to be relying on guys who have only had one good year, and then on top of that, adding in so many other unreliable/unproven guys. Very Dangerous and possibly very stupid. Only time will tell I guess.

 

I am hoping for Konerko to bounce back and see our young guys continue to develop but if not, I think Kenny will need to do some serious damage control at the deadline and make some big moves to change the culture of this club. He'll need to acquire lots of prospects and use the money to sign some FA's or he'll need to deal for a superstar like a Holliday and look to lock them up and continue building. Not sure what it will be but I am getting very excited for baseball.

 

[Swingandalongonetoleft]

And it's not like KW has traded away our let go of our best players either.

 

Orlando Cabrera and Juan Uribe are being replaced by Dumb & Dumber. If it works out, then hail hail, if not, both White Sox outcasts could have been had for delicious sums. Who the f*** is Nix? Please, seriously. A group of clowns v. some dudes that are proven winners for roughly the same amount of money. Yeah, I guess it could work out, I hope it does, but who the f*** is Nix?

Edited February 15, 2009 by Swingandalongonetoleft

[greg775]

Is this the year the f***ing Royals are added to the mix of teams we have to be concerned with winning the division?

 

[beck72]

I don't have a problem with the sox going into 2009 with so many young guys being added into the mix of sox veterans. I would like the sox to have vets at the top of the order, so the young guys could be moved in slowly with less pressure hitting at the bottom. That's my biggest concern, that the Sox don't have guys to get on base and hit for high avg. in the 1 and 2 spots. Having Owens et al hitting at the top isn't reassuring. Though the sox big guns-CQ, Dye, Thome, PK, and AJ-still need to carry the team offensively.

 

The playoffs showed how old, slow and one dimesional the sox were. The sox have improved upon that in 2009, with the additions of Lillibridge, Getz, Fields, Owens,Viciedo, Nix in at least 3 spots. In the near future, the sox should be even more well rounded offensively and defensively, with guys like Beckham, Jordan Danks, Shelby added in.

 

The bullpen is better and deeper. Though health is still the biggest question mark. If the sox bullpen stays relatively healthy, it should be a strength. It has to be for the sox to contend.

 

If the sox need help at the deadline, they are in a position to add a piece or two. IMO, teams will be looking to cut costs. Instead of prospects, teams will be looking to shed salaries. That should mean the sox can add without trading top prospects if they take on the cash.

 

 

[Milkman delivers]

I didn't get to read everyone's comments but I wanted to throw my two cents in on this issue and the upcoming season.

 

I have been a supporter of a firesale since 2007. In 2007, my opinions were proven right. In 2008, they weren't. This year, I would prefer a firesale for the same reason that I don't mind not having one. That reason being that the division is somewhat wideopen.

 

In saying that, I think the Tigers last year were a bit of a fluke. I think theyre pitching will be better but I also think they are older and losing steam offensively. Guys like Sheff, Maggs, Guillen and Polanco didn't have huge years last season and it's tough to expect them to do much better this year just because of how old theyre getting. I do think guys like Verlander and Bonderman will bounce back a bit and I don't think Gallaraga or Jackson will repeat their moderate success in 08'. So basically, I think last year was a fluke yes but this year I don't think they're a lock to repeat 07' and see them as around a .500+ team.

 

Cleveland to me is in an interesting situation. Last year, we knew they had one great pitcher, no bullpen and some offense. This year, I feel like it's the same thing. They have Cliff Lee, a better bullpen and possibly some offense. If Carmona can bounce back, Reyes live up to his STL hype, and someone like LaPorta can step in and provide the power bat that Hafner has left vacant in that lineup, then I think theyll be a decent team and maybe a very good team.

 

The Twins will be the Twins. It's cliche and whatever you want to say but I can't describe how they manage to do it each year. They just do and I can only discribe it as hatred.

 

The Royals will be better. I love some of the pieces they have. I think Grienke is coming into his own. Gordon needs to break out this year. Jacobs was a nice power addition and one of my favorite people theyve added is Alberto Callapso. I think he has a chance to be their version of Placido Polanco and be a real catalyst for that lineup.

 

So that sums up the division but all I've told you is that everyone is mediocre it seems. To me, last year was a perfect time to firesale because no one thought we'd have a chance. Look what happened? This year, I'd like to firesale because guys are getting old and I think we should get some other good young pieces while our old men have value but the division is wideopen. So at the same time, it's a perfect chance to keep those guys and try to develop some of your own. Hoping those kids will learn from the veterans and while hoping the veterans can carry us.

 

Do I expect to win it this year? No. Part of me thinks that is the problem with Kenny Williams approach. He has put this team together to have a potential shot at winning the AL central. A bad bad AL central and I think most of us want him to build a WS contender. Some people say that is enough, others say we just need to get in and anything can happen...i agree with that sentiment but during the preseason, you can't bank on it. You want to bank on a legit team, legit prospects or potential in positions...you dont want to be relying on "last chance" kind of players. Which I feel is what we are doing. If Anderson doesnt win it, I don't think he'll ever do it. Same with Fields. Same with Owens. Same with Getz and some of our pitchers.

 

I'm very skeptical (not quite concerned) but skeptical on whether or not we'll see a repeat performance out of Alexi/Quentin/Danks. I know we won't see it out of Floyd. This is what makes this year a little tougher to swallow because we aren't banking on the usual Paulie/Dye/Thome thing because theyre slipping a bit (maybe not Dye). We are hoping theyll not fall off but we seem to be relying on guys who have only had one good year, and then on top of that, adding in so many other unreliable/unproven guys. Very Dangerous and possibly very stupid. Only time will tell I guess.

 

I am hoping for Konerko to bounce back and see our young guys continue to develop but if not, I think Kenny will need to do some serious damage control at the deadline and make some big moves to change the culture of this club. He'll need to acquire lots of prospects and use the money to sign some FA's or he'll need to deal for a superstar like a Holliday and look to lock them up and continue building. Not sure what it will be but I am getting very excited for baseball.

 

 

I'd like to point out that Anderson has won the job at least once in spring training. He's just been f***ed over a few times.

 

Also, if anyone thinks we're adding pieces, or even a single piece, at the deadline, you're sadly mistaken. This team does not do that.

[Greg Hibbard]

You mean winning the division is not the ultimate goal? YOU'RE KIDDING! Last I checked, you had to survive this little 162 game marathon before you're allowed to participate in the postseason. How we matchup with other teams from other divisions in February is as irrelevant as irrelevant can possibly get. Starting in April until the end of September, we have to be better than the Royals, Indians, Tigers and Twins.

 

It was extremely clear at the midway point of last season that no matter who the division winner was in the AL Central, they would get handily trounced in any (particularly short) playoff series. Surprise, surprise. And before you say "2006 Cardinals," let's discuss how many times the postseason team with the best record in their respective league makes the WS as opposed to the team with the worst, particularly in the AL, particularly in this AL period of dominance (going back to 1992). Here's the answer: 8 of the past 16 WS have featured the best AL record in the WS, and 2 of the past 16 have featured the weakest divisional winner.

 

"As long as we win the division, even if it's with only 79 wins"...that's losertalk...I'm sorry.

Edited February 15, 2009 by Greg Hibbard

[Milkman delivers]

2008-Griffey

2007-Sox sucked, but still traded Gooch and Mack

2006-Riske,Alomar Jr., Macdougal

2005-Blum

2004-Contreras,Robbie actually after the 31st, and Garica in late June.

2003-Robbie,Everett, Schoenewise

 

 

I have to assume that was a joke, right?

 

I knew someone would list off the garbage. I should have mentioned we haven't made a significant move for an upper echelon player since Garcia, and who knows before that. I guess a case can be made for Everett the first time.

[Kalapse]

I knew someone would list off the garbage. I should have mentioned we haven't made a significant move for an upper echelon player since Garcia, and who knows before that. I guess a case can be made for Everett the first time.

And how many "upper echelon" players are dealt every July? Normally the trade deadline is used to add complimentary pieces to fill a few holes for the stretch run, only a few star players have even been dealt at the deadline since KW took over

[Jordan4life_2007]

It was extremely clear at the midway point of last season that no matter who the division winner was in the AL Central, they would get handily trounced in any (particularly short) playoff series. Surprise, surprise. And before you say "2006 Cardinals," let's discuss how many times the postseason team with the best record in their respective league makes the WS as opposed to the team with the worst, particularly in the AL, particularly in this AL period of dominance (going back to 1992). Here's the answer: 8 of the past 16 WS have featured the best AL record in the WS, and 2 of the past 16 have featured the weakest divisional winner.

 

"As long as we win the division, even if it's with only 79 wins"...that's losertalk...I'm sorry.

 

Again, where is anyone saying that winning the division is the ultimate goal? That's right. Nobody is saying that. You've just decided to pretend somebody is because it gives you a reason to continue to declare the season over 6 weeks before it's even started. I don't give a s*** about past history of teams with the best record, worst record, wildcard records, ect and how they've fared in the playoffs. The first and only order of business at this point for ANY team is to GET TO THE PLAYOFFS! I'm not sitting here on February f***ing 15th and worrying about how we would matchup with the Yankees or Red Sox in the playoffs IF we were fortunate enough to get there. If you want to continue to do so, have a blast.

[Milkman delivers]

And how many "upper echelon" players are dealt every July? Normally the trade deadline is used to add complimentary pieces to fill a few holes for the stretch run, only a few star players have even been dealt at the deadline since KW took over

 

How about players that are just more than mediocre instead of upper echelon?

[witesoxfan]

How about players that are just more than mediocre instead of upper echelon?

 

Griffey was having a solid season last year when the Sox dealt for him, Riske had always been a solid pitcher even though he was pretty mediocre for the Sox, and MacDougal was absolutely fantastic for the Sox down the stretch in 2006. I'd say those are all above mediocre acquisitions.

[Kalapse]

How about players that are just more than mediocre instead of upper echelon?

Well then MacDougal (performed incredibly well for the remainder of the '06 season), Garcia and Everett (the first time around when he was having and continued to have a well above average offensive season) would all qualify. So of the last 5 seasons in which we were contenders we've picked up an impact player at the break in 3 of them and won the World Series in one of the other 2.

[Milkman delivers]

Griffey was having a solid season last year when the Sox dealt for him, Riske had always been a solid pitcher even though he was pretty mediocre for the Sox, and MacDougal was absolutely fantastic for the Sox down the stretch in 2006. I'd say those are all above mediocre acquisitions.

 

Griffey was mediocre. Riske always has been mediocre. MacDougal was hardly more than mediocre before we got him, and then we happened to get a good half of a season out of him.

[Milkman delivers]

Well then MacDougal (performed incredibly well for the remainder of the '06 season), Garcia and Everett (the first time around when he was having and continued to have a well above average offensive season) would all qualify. So of the last 5 seasons in which we were contenders we've picked up an impact player at the break in 3 of them and won the World Series in one of the other 2.

 

I already admitted Garcia and Everett in the very first post. I will never accept that MacDougal was more than mediocre before he had his nice half season with us.

[Kalapse]

Griffey was mediocre. Riske always has been mediocre. MacDougal was hardly more than mediocre before we got him, and then we happened to get a good half of a season out of him.

MacDougal had a very good 2005 season but suffered an injury at the beginning of '06, we acquired him after he threw 4 scoreless innings for the Royals that season and he went on to be by far our best reliever down the stretch.

 

Whether you though little of him before we acquired him or not he was still an impact player for that 2006 team, there's no denying that.

[witesoxfan]

Griffey was mediocre. Riske always has been mediocre. MacDougal was hardly more than mediocre before we got him, and then we happened to get a good half of a season out of him.

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/r/riskeda01.shtml

 

Riske had always been mediocre? I don't buy that.

 

I also don't understand the need to go out and get a big name player. If you have to do that, it likely means you have a mediocre to bad team, or you have a gaping hole somewhere on your roster. The Sox almost never have that type of team.

[Kalapse]

I already admitted Garcia and Everett in the very first post. I will never accept that MacDougal was more than mediocre before he had his nice half season with us.

He fits the "more than mediocre" requirement for his 2005 season and talent as a pitcher. And regardless of what you thought of him before we acquired him, KW saw something in him and he turned out to be a great acquisition for the 2006 season.

[Milkman delivers]

MacDougal had a very good 2005 season but suffered an injury at the beginning of '06, we acquired him after he threw 4 scoreless innings for the Royals that season and he went on to be by far our best reliever down the stretch.

 

Whether you though little of him before we acquired him or not he was still an impact player for that 2006 team, there's no denying that.

 

I'm not denying that.

[Milkman delivers]

http://www.baseball-reference.com/r/riskeda01.shtml

 

Riske had always been mediocre? I don't buy that.

 

I also don't understand the need to go out and get a big name player. If you have to do that, it likely means you have a mediocre to bad team, or you have a gaping hole somewhere on your roster. The Sox almost never have that type of team.

 

Well, that'll certainly change this year.

[Milkman delivers]

He fits the "more than mediocre" requirement for his 2005 season and talent as a pitcher. And regardless of what you thought of him before we acquired him, KW saw something in him and he turned out to be a great acquisition for the 2006 season.

 

Tons of mediocre players have a nice season or two. That still doesn't change the fact that they're nothing more than "meh" in the long run.

Edited February 15, 2009 by Milkman delivers