Guest hotsoxchick1 Posted July 16, 2003 Share Posted July 16, 2003 I've been pretty satisfied with him this year. A few hiccups, but pretty solid overall, and he's logged what like 5 complete games? It's certainly not a "bust", and i think if this team was playin better it'd lift his level of performance as well. If the ERA was a bit lower, maybe like 3.75, i'd say that he'd be performing exactly how i expected him to. Regardless, Rocky Biddle sucked here and only showed few signs of promise and Liefer and Osuna, well, they aren't doing much now are they. That deal was totally totally worth the "risk". And even if Colon isn't here another year or two or whatever....were Biddle, Liefer, and Osuna gonna be part of this Sox team for years to come? I'm not so sure about that. no one is gonna be a part of this team for years to come........that idea is dead when frank finally leaves........im just sayin that colon has perfromed better elsewhere and his performance here has not been all that hes fully capable of....but whatever who cares ... he isnt gonna be here much longer anyhow if things dont shape up ........we dont start winning now that white flag will be so high up that pole were never gonna have a player here on the team over 500,000 in salary......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlliniKrush Posted July 16, 2003 Share Posted July 16, 2003 I've been pretty satisfied with him this year. A few hiccups, but pretty solid overall, and he's logged what like 5 complete games? It's certainly not a "bust", and i think if this team was playin better it'd lift his level of performance as well. If the ERA was a bit lower, maybe like 3.75, i'd say that he'd be performing exactly how i expected him to. Regardless, Rocky Biddle sucked here and only showed few signs of promise and Liefer and Osuna, well, they aren't doing much now are they. That deal was totally totally worth the "risk". And even if Colon isn't here another year or two or whatever....were Biddle, Liefer, and Osuna gonna be part of this Sox team for years to come? I'm not so sure about that. no one is gonna be a part of this team for years to come........that idea is dead when frank finally leaves........im just sayin that colon has perfromed better elsewhere and his performance here has not been all that hes fully capable of....but whatever who cares ... he isnt gonna be here much longer anyhow if things dont shape up ........we dont start winning now that white flag will be so high up that pole were never gonna have a player here on the team over 500,000 in salary......... Well then that doesn't say much for the future of maggs and MB I know colon could be better, but he hasn't been horrible and isn't responsible for this team sucking it up for half a year. I'm not gonna look back after the season, even if he is gone, and say "damn it we could have rocky biddle right now" HSC, is this 2 week period so vital that the white flag will be up before the season is over or are you talking after the season. I know every game is vital now, but is there word there could be changes in another 2 weeks (like moving everett again or something) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hotsoxchick1 Posted July 16, 2003 Share Posted July 16, 2003 I've been pretty satisfied with him this year. A few hiccups, but pretty solid overall, and he's logged what like 5 complete games? It's certainly not a "bust", and i think if this team was playin better it'd lift his level of performance as well. If the ERA was a bit lower, maybe like 3.75, i'd say that he'd be performing exactly how i expected him to. Regardless, Rocky Biddle sucked here and only showed few signs of promise and Liefer and Osuna, well, they aren't doing much now are they. That deal was totally totally worth the "risk". And even if Colon isn't here another year or two or whatever....were Biddle, Liefer, and Osuna gonna be part of this Sox team for years to come? I'm not so sure about that. no one is gonna be a part of this team for years to come........that idea is dead when frank finally leaves........im just sayin that colon has perfromed better elsewhere and his performance here has not been all that hes fully capable of....but whatever who cares ... he isnt gonna be here much longer anyhow if things dont shape up ........we dont start winning now that white flag will be so high up that pole were never gonna have a player here on the team over 500,000 in salary......... Well then that doesn't say much for the future of maggs and MB I know colon could be better, but he hasn't been horrible and isn't responsible for this team sucking it up for half a year. I'm not gonna look back after the season, even if he is gone, and say "damn it we could have rocky biddle right now" HSC, is this 2 week period so vital that the white flag will be up before the season is over or are you talking after the season. I know every game is vital now, but is there word there could be changes in another 2 weeks (like moving everett again or something) my take.. if we tank out in the next couple of weeks.. (not necessarly a firm 2 weeks but in a couple less or more) ......we are gonna see high salary moved out and lower moved in .....look over jr's statements that were quoted from the paper or kw's retraction that was put in press today... it specifically mentions moving salary, not firing jm.... of course we all know thats gonna happen and we will once again be in the glorious state of REBUILDING...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlliniKrush Posted July 16, 2003 Share Posted July 16, 2003 Well isn't that just great I don't know what to think anymore with this team. Maybe rebuilding would be best for us, maybe it wouldn't be. I guess time will tell and this will all play itself out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hotsoxchick1 Posted July 16, 2003 Share Posted July 16, 2003 Well isn't that just great I don't know what to think anymore with this team. Maybe rebuilding would be best for us, maybe it wouldn't be. I guess time will tell and this will all play itself out a new owner all the way down would be good for this team.. an owner who is focused on winning.... ya know the extra cash jr could have in his pockets right now if we won a world series... geez.. but then again he gets alot of kick backs from the state for an empty park so why should he bust his ass putting a winner on the field when a mediocre one will do..........new ownership is what we need before we can make a run for anything.......mho Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LauraJ14 Posted July 16, 2003 Share Posted July 16, 2003 Well if the Sox had kept Biddle and Foulke, does anyone here think that JM would let either of them close games? No way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Fainter Posted July 16, 2003 Share Posted July 16, 2003 Foulke, yes. Biddle, no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted July 16, 2003 Share Posted July 16, 2003 Foulke, yes. Biddle, no. i agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chosk8 Posted July 16, 2003 Share Posted July 16, 2003 There's always something like "geez, biddle has X amount of saves for the spos, wish we had him, nice job kenny" around here So easily people forget that was the Colon deal. Don't take out frustration of a bad Koch deal on the Biddle/Colon trade Two separate issues That's what i meant when i said this, i guess it wasn't clear, not a huge deal I just meant that people always seem really mad about biddle being gone because of Koch sucking it up, and that's not a fair assessment because they forget that we got Colon for him and Liefer and Osuna and colon aint doing the s*** hes capble of doing..........its gonna turn out to be a huge bust for us.......a very big disapointment all the way around..........glad our guys are doing well elsewhere and it doesnt directly effect us........well not till we see oaktown in the playoffs anyhow....if we get there that is...... "colon aint doing the s*** hes capble of doing". Are you kidding me? You can't look at every trade in hindsight. Or did you predict he would have this record before the All-Star break? I would guess not. Not too many, if any predicted Biddle would have the success as a closer, except the Expos or I must have missed the thread "Let's make Biddle our closer" last year. Yeah, it would be great if GMs could just say to each other, "hey, this guy isn't doing what he's capable of, can we have the guys we gave you back, they're doing good now?" Some trades work out, some don't. It's the nature of the business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishmookie Posted July 17, 2003 Share Posted July 17, 2003 how about we get rid of botch and dare i say it.... ok cotts (gasp) for biddle and orlando cabrara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hotsoxchick1 Posted July 17, 2003 Share Posted July 17, 2003 There's always something like "geez, biddle has X amount of saves for the spos, wish we had him, nice job kenny" around here So easily people forget that was the Colon deal. Don't take out frustration of a bad Koch deal on the Biddle/Colon trade Two separate issues That's what i meant when i said this, i guess it wasn't clear, not a huge deal I just meant that people always seem really mad about biddle being gone because of Koch sucking it up, and that's not a fair assessment because they forget that we got Colon for him and Liefer and Osuna and colon aint doing the s*** hes capble of doing..........its gonna turn out to be a huge bust for us.......a very big disapointment all the way around..........glad our guys are doing well elsewhere and it doesnt directly effect us........well not till we see oaktown in the playoffs anyhow....if we get there that is...... "colon aint doing the s*** hes capble of doing". Are you kidding me? You can't look at every trade in hindsight. Or did you predict he would have this record before the All-Star break? I would guess not. Not too many, if any predicted Biddle would have the success as a closer, except the Expos or I must have missed the thread "Let's make Biddle our closer" last year. Yeah, it would be great if GMs could just say to each other, "hey, this guy isn't doing what he's capable of, can we have the guys we gave you back, they're doing good now?" Some trades work out, some don't. It's the nature of the business. hmm funny i dont seem to recall you posting here last year when we discussed the colon trade.....i for one was not happy about it.... not because we lost rocko but because i dont like colon... never have never will.....but then again you would recall that talk wouldnt you......just as you would recall i was most likely the only one on here who dispised the lofton deal....i took alot of s*** for it and look what he got us.. absoutley nothing........one month and he was done.......i dont put alot of stock in colon because of a number of things... hes lazy, he demands things to be his own way and leaves no room for improving opinion, hes not a great clubhouse presence. , (ask his teamates)........and hes not our savior.......sure he will give ya a few complete games now and again but at what cost.......take me out cooper im tired.........its not worth arguing over cause he aint stayin anyhow........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted July 17, 2003 Share Posted July 17, 2003 how about we get rid of botch and dare i say it.... ok cotts (gasp) for biddle and orlando cabrara no Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chosk8 Posted July 17, 2003 Share Posted July 17, 2003 There's always something like "geez, biddle has X amount of saves for the spos, wish we had him, nice job kenny" around here So easily people forget that was the Colon deal. Don't take out frustration of a bad Koch deal on the Biddle/Colon trade Two separate issues That's what i meant when i said this, i guess it wasn't clear, not a huge deal I just meant that people always seem really mad about biddle being gone because of Koch sucking it up, and that's not a fair assessment because they forget that we got Colon for him and Liefer and Osuna and colon aint doing the s*** hes capble of doing..........its gonna turn out to be a huge bust for us.......a very big disapointment all the way around..........glad our guys are doing well elsewhere and it doesnt directly effect us........well not till we see oaktown in the playoffs anyhow....if we get there that is...... "colon aint doing the s*** hes capble of doing". Are you kidding me? You can't look at every trade in hindsight. Or did you predict he would have this record before the All-Star break? I would guess not. Not too many, if any predicted Biddle would have the success as a closer, except the Expos or I must have missed the thread "Let's make Biddle our closer" last year. Yeah, it would be great if GMs could just say to each other, "hey, this guy isn't doing what he's capable of, can we have the guys we gave you back, they're doing good now?" Some trades work out, some don't. It's the nature of the business. hmm funny i dont seem to recall you posting here last year when we discussed the colon trade.....i for one was not happy about it.... not because we lost rocko but because i dont like colon... never have never will.....but then again you would recall that talk wouldnt you......just as you would recall i was most likely the only one on here who dispised the lofton deal....i took alot of s*** for it and look what he got us.. absoutley nothing........one month and he was done.......i dont put alot of stock in colon because of a number of things... hes lazy, he demands things to be his own way and leaves no room for improving opinion, hes not a great clubhouse presence. , (ask his teamates)........and hes not our savior.......sure he will give ya a few complete games now and again but at what cost.......take me out cooper im tired.........its not worth arguing over cause he aint stayin anyhow........ You're right, I wasn't a member back then, just a spectator. You can only take so much before you just have to let it out. Fact is, I am not a big fan of Colon's either, but for probably different reasons. I have a hard time rooting for a guy who has previously played for a hated rival and I do think he is lazy as well. But I understand how baseball goes and it is very rare for a player to finish his career with the team he started with. But to get a 20 game winner for what we gave up, I was happy about that. Yes, I am mad that Biddle is doing well as a closer, and that was my point that you can't look at the trades in hindsight. The Kenny Lofton signing was a good one in my book. Looking at the other options we had in center made it a no-brainer. Yeah, Kenny dropped off big time after the first month of the season, but look at what he did after he left. Makes me think it's not the players we bring in, but rather the players that are already here. The last 2 years, I have been very skeptical of all the trades and acquisitions we have made for the simple fact that the Sox uniform is apparently made of some fabric that seems to drain player of all their abilities. At the press conferences when Kenny Williams holds up the jersey the newly acquired player will be wearing I see it glowing green, like the necklace of kryptonite Lex Luther puts around Superman's neck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hotsoxchick1 Posted July 17, 2003 Share Posted July 17, 2003 At the press conferences when Kenny Williams holds up the jersey the newly acquired player will be wearing I see it glowing green, like the necklace of kryptonite Lex Luther puts around Superman's neck. well that sure explains alot........ d wells a 20 game winner, comes here turns into s***... k lofton used to be a good player..came here turned into s***.... b colon.. another 20 game winner...lazy as hell and not doing quite the job he was once known for.... r biddle leaves here and does wonderful.... k foulke leaves here and does wonderful.... hell even k wells left here and didnt do so bad..... dare i say this??? the only one who seems to be prone to the kryptonite these days is loz.... of course now i jinxed him and hes gonna turn to s*** .......damn it....i should have just left it go....... but i see your point.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathew Posted July 17, 2003 Share Posted July 17, 2003 well that sure explains alot........ d wells a 20 game winner, comes here turns into s***... k lofton used to be a good player..came here turned into s***.... b colon.. another 20 game winner...lazy as hell and not doing quite the job he was once known for.... r biddle leaves here and does wonderful.... k foulke leaves here and does wonderful.... hell even k wells left here and didnt do so bad..... dare i say this??? the only one who seems to be prone to the kryptonite these days is loz.... of course now i jinxed him and hes gonna turn to s*** .......damn it....i should have just left it go....... but i see your point.... Kip Wells is not too great. Biddle has looked pretty ordinary lately. Foulke was always doing as well as he is now, if not better. Clon's done worse than he should, Loaiza much better, it's more or less a wash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted July 17, 2003 Share Posted July 17, 2003 Rockey has looked ordinary lately. He was very streaky and very fragile. It never would ahve occured to us to use him as a closer. His trade away was good for eveyone. If JM had ever put Rocky in as the closer instead of Foulke or Marte or Koch, the wailing that he ahd lost his mind would be overwhelming. We didn't see him in that role and thus his being traded has been pluses for everyone all around - except us because Colon gets tired and hasn't pitched that great, but we moved Leifer as well and that was a good thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted July 17, 2003 Share Posted July 17, 2003 well that sure explains alot........ d wells a 20 game winner, comes here turns into s***... k lofton used to be a good player..came here turned into s***.... b colon.. another 20 game winner...lazy as hell and not doing quite the job he was once known for.... r biddle leaves here and does wonderful.... k foulke leaves here and does wonderful.... hell even k wells left here and didnt do so bad..... dare i say this??? the only one who seems to be prone to the kryptonite these days is loz.... of course now i jinxed him and hes gonna turn to s*** .......damn it....i should have just left it go....... but i see your point.... Kip Wells is not too great. Biddle has looked pretty ordinary lately. Foulke was always doing as well as he is now, if not better. Clon's done worse than he should, Loaiza much better, it's more or less a wash. Kip Wells hasn't been bad at all. He has a 3.76 ERA and has only given up 90 hits in 105.1 IP. His walk and strikeout rates aren't great, but they aren't bad either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathew Posted July 17, 2003 Share Posted July 17, 2003 well that sure explains alot........ d wells a 20 game winner, comes here turns into s***... k lofton used to be a good player..came here turned into s***.... b colon.. another 20 game winner...lazy as hell and not doing quite the job he was once known for.... r biddle leaves here and does wonderful.... k foulke leaves here and does wonderful.... hell even k wells left here and didnt do so bad..... dare i say this??? the only one who seems to be prone to the kryptonite these days is loz.... of course now i jinxed him and hes gonna turn to s*** .......damn it....i should have just left it go....... but i see your point.... Kip Wells is not too great. Biddle has looked pretty ordinary lately. Foulke was always doing as well as he is now, if not better. Clon's done worse than he should, Loaiza much better, it's more or less a wash. Kip Wells hasn't been bad at all. He has a 3.76 ERA and has only given up 90 hits in 105.1 IP. His walk and strikeout rates aren't great, but they aren't bad either. That's about what I said, in my "not too great". We as White Sox fans tend to think that we have lost a ton of really good players, when in reality, Wells after him great first half last year has been o.k. and Biddle has blown a few big ones recently. We just tend to over estimate what we've given up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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