ARod Press Conference about to start 2/17 10:45 am

[Balta1701]

Various entertaining reactions:

Michael Phelps, on smoking weed at a party in November:

 

"I engaged in behavior which was regrettable and demonstrated bad judgment. I'm 23 years old and despite the successes I've had in the pool, I acted in a youthful and inappropriate way, not in a manner people have come to expect from me. For this, I am sorry. I promise my fans and the public it will not happen again."

 

Alex Rodriguez, on taking steroids between the ages of 25 and 28:

 

"I'm here to say I'm sorry. I'm here to say that in some ways I wish I went to college and grew up at my own pace. I guess when you're young and stupid, you're young and stupid."

 

Twenty-three, 26, 28 ... what brave, heroic sportsman will come along next to stretch mankind's allowable range of irresponsible behavior into the 30s? The 40s?

 

But let's get beyond A-Rod's obvious side-stepping and obfuscations and youthful indiscretions. We know the drill: He's trying to give just enough answers with just enough detail to throw everybody off the scent. He's not the first to employ the tactic, and he won't be the last. However, the most troubling answer Rodriguez gave came after a simple question:

 

Question: Do you think you cheated?

 

A-Rod: "That's not for me to determine."

 

This is the heart of the issue. This is where the commendable becomes questionable. Of course he cheated; that's the whole point. That's why he didn't tell anybody about it, and that's why he and his alleged cousin ran this allegedly hare-brained operation (a few injections every once in a while, whenever we felt like it, as we saw fit, over the course of three years) like a couple of schoolkids sneaking cigarettes behind the portables. Did they declare the drugs at customs? Probably not.

 

If Rodriguez is truly looking for accountability -- and he's about halfway there -- he needs to state the obvious: It was wrong; it was cheating; it was intentional. Not only that, but it was against the law, which might have something to do with why he and his spectral cousin made sure not to let anyone else in on the secret.

 

Rodriguez, despite his reflexive dismissal of the question, is absolutely the one who needs to determine that using steroids constituted cheating. It cuts to the core of the entire issue of personal responsibility. Without that determination, the rest just sounds like a pile of words stacked high enough to obscure the view.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

I have a really hard time judging ARod. Yes he admitted it but (and I hope I have my facts straight) many of the tests back then were taken to establish weather MLB actually had a steroid problem. There wasn't a list of banned substances or penalties for taking any of this stuff in baseball at the time ARod is admitting to taking steroids . So basically he wasn't doing anything forbidden. If I'm wrong someone give me dates of when MLB instituted a policy against steroids and when they started making lists of what substances were banned . I do believe he was guilty of trying to keep pace with his peers and did little wrong according to the rules established at that time.

[Dick Allen]

I have a really hard time judging ARod. Yes he admitted it but (and I hope I have my facts straight) many of the tests back then were taken to establish weather MLB actually had a steroid problem. There wasn't a list of banned substances or penalties for taking any of this stuff in baseball at the time ARod is admitting to taking steroids . So basically he wasn't doing anything forbidden. If I'm wrong someone give me dates of when MLB instituted a policy against steroids and when they started making lists of what substances were banned . I do believe he was guilty of trying to keep pace with his peers and did little wrong according to the rules established at that time.

If he was injecting himself in the USA he most likely was breaking the law. I'm an ARod guy, and I don't buy his story that he really had no idea what he was taking, but I'm with you, these tests were supposed to be anonymous. I don't know who screwed up, whether it was the union or the league or whoever, but they did the game a great disservice letting this get out. Having press conferences to explain 6 year old steroid tests does nobody any good, and ARod shouldn't have had to answer questions. There was absolutely nothing he could have said today, short of "I have been doing steroids my whole career and will retire because I am a fraud, and give back every dime I have been paid", that would have satisfied most.

[NorthSideSox72]

Check out the trib today.

Hm, somehow I did indeed miss that. I'll have to look around and see what the back story is, what he tested positive for, etc.

 

[iamshack]

I rarely agree with Dick Allen, but I have to say I am leaning towards his point of view on this one. Because of the information age, there is so much more focus on this stuff than there ever was in the past. Players have cheated since the game was created. Certainly some have been clean their entire careers, and it's quite a shame when a player gets looked over for an honor or award because he was beaten out by someone that cheated, but honestly, what can you do? I think it's impossible to draw any arbitrary line to separate the cheaters that deserve major punishment from those cheaters who deserve little or no punishment. And you obviously can't punish all the cheaters, because then there would hardly be anyone left...

 

I tend to think of this as the same way I think of it in life...where cheaters often do prosper, and indeed much to the detriment of those who don't cheat. But the best thing we can do is be honest to and with ourselves, and know we did our best in the end.

 

These things always tend to sort them out in the end anyways.

[YASNY]

When it comes to HOF inclusion or not, this will be dealt with by the individual judgements of the voting members of the BBWAA and the veterans committee. Each case will be looked at on it's own merits, the voters will decide who qualifies and who doesn't. Of course, this is the way it has always been done and should continue without any special special exclusion rules specifically aimed at PED users. No arbitrary line is drawn in the sand this way. The voters vote as they see fit and if 75% vote for a player, he's in. I honestly can't think of a more equitable way to deal with this particular issue.

[Dick Allen]

KW's take from mlb.com:

 

"There are guys in previous generations who are really outspoken on it, and there's a certain hypocrisy in it," he said. "Let's say you are talking the (19)70s and the '80s, then you are talking there was a lot of amphetamines usage as a performance enhancer.

"So, if you are one of those guys, and I've heard guys that I know did that type of thing, criticizing the guys doing the state-of-the-art thing in the mid-'80s into the '90s and (next decade), OK, well, it's a little hypocritical."

 

This is the point I've been trying to make. Many of the players we all cherish and take for granted as "clean" were doing things that were, at least at the time, just as bad IMO. What's the difference between taking amphetimines and steroids as far as the 5 mph over the limit vs. 45 mph over the limit? If steroids were known to enhance performance, and for many years, lifting weights was discouraged, I'm sure the "steroid era" would have began a lot sooner.

[Texsox]

While it certainly seems admirable to equate all cheating and treat it all the same, that just is not how society has operated. Like degrees of speeding, so to are degrees of cheating.

 

Finding a ball with a scuff mark and not alerting the ump is cheating, but would receive a wink from most players. Steroids, IMNSHO, is the worse bit of cheating I can imagine.

 

• Undetectable on the field, no way for the ump to catch the cheater
• No way for the other team to catch the cheater
• Cheating 100% of the time, no way to "turn it off"
• Produces far more benefits than scuffing the ball or corking a bat with far less chance of getting caught (then)

So I believe the punishments shoud also be in scale with the level of cheating. Much like we have a sliding scale with speeding or stealing, so too should this. Hell, Baseball has sliding scales everywhere. Examine behavior with an umpire.

 

"That was a terrible call" -- walk to the bench

"That was a f***ing terrible call" -- still walk to the bench

"You are one f***ing terrible umpire, how the &^$^%# did you ever get this job"? -- take a shower

"You are one f***ing terrible umpire, how the &^$^%# did you ever get this job"? while kicking dirt on the ump and flipping him off = + a fine

"You are one f***ing terrible umpire, how the &^$^%# did you ever get this job"? while kicking ump = ++fine ++ suspension

[Texsox]

KW's take from mlb.com:

 

"There are guys in previous generations who are really outspoken on it, and there's a certain hypocrisy in it," he said. "Let's say you are talking the (19)70s and the '80s, then you are talking there was a lot of amphetamines usage as a performance enhancer.

"So, if you are one of those guys, and I've heard guys that I know did that type of thing, criticizing the guys doing the state-of-the-art thing in the mid-'80s into the '90s and (next decade), OK, well, it's a little hypocritical."

 

This is the point I've been trying to make. Many of the players we all cherish and take for granted as "clean" were doing things that were, at least at the time, just as bad IMO. What's the difference between taking amphetimines and steroids as far as the 5 mph over the limit vs. 45 mph over the limit? If steroids were known to enhance performance, and for many years, lifting weights was discouraged, I'm sure the "steroid era" would have began a lot sooner.

 

Dick, if you do not see the performance difference between amphetamines and steroids, you will never understand the speeding analogy. If they truly are equivelent in how they enhanced performance players would not have switched. It is clear to everyone, especially the athletes, that steroids were of a much bigger benefit with much less risk to getting caught.

 

Again, just because people got away with stuff in the past does not give everyone in the future a free pass to cheat. At some point society changes the rules based on current attitudes.

 

Use that argument in court when you receive a DUI at .09; That blood alcohol level was legal a couple years ago and thirty years ago you could be .15 and the cop would just make certain someone came to get you. So finally standing up and saying enough is enough, we will not take this anymore is common in our society. As we gain new knowledge, society must make new decisions. The argument that "hey we didn't know about it, and this is just another form of something we allowed, albeit worse" just is not valid.

[Dick Allen]

Dick, if you do not see the performance difference between amphetamines and steroids, you will never understand the speeding analogy. If they truly are equivelent in how they enhanced performance players would not have switched. It is clear to everyone, especially the athletes, that steroids were of a much bigger benefit with much less risk to getting caught.

 

Again, just because people got away with stuff in the past does not give everyone in the future a free pass to cheat. At some point society changes the rules based on current attitudes.

 

Use that argument in court when you receive a DUI at .09; That blood alcohol level was legal a couple years ago and thirty years ago you could be .15 and the cop would just make certain someone came to get you. So finally standing up and saying enough is enough, we will not take this anymore is common in our society. As we gain new knowledge, society must make new decisions. The argument that "hey we didn't know about it, and this is just another form of something we allowed, albeit worse" just is not valid.

First off, I never said anyone gets a free pass to cheat. ARods test was taken under the presumption it was annonymous or he had no responsibility to even take it. MLB has changed the rules. When ARod was positive there was no penalty. You can't go back and charge all the guys who blew a .15 40 years ago with drunk driving. Its time to move on. I just don't understand your thinking that amphetimines were nothing. Its common knowledge they were in every clubhouse.

Amphetimines were illegal,no? Good for you if you went to look for something in your garage and found a bag of amphetimines and proceed to pat your son on the back and say, at least they weren't steroids.(This is just a hypothetical, I don't know even if you have a son and I'm not implying this would occur) Why do you think amphetimine use is OK? Just because it wasn't universally considered that DUI wasn't that big of a deal 30-40 years ago by a lot of society, didn't make it right. Hence, the laws were change. It also wasn't frowned upon for a pregnant woman to smoke and get wasted, now it is. Amphetimines were PEDs. They were cheating. If 30 years ago, the players thought it was no big deal, so what. The players today have the same attitude toward steroids. If you can go back 6 years for ARod's test, when there were no penalties, why can't you go back 40 and if you found out Willie Mays was hopped up on amphetimines, for which there now is a test, shouldn't his HOF status be reconsidered?

Edited February 18, 2009 by Dick Allen

[NorthSideSox72]

I've never held to the concept that it is OK to do something because others do it. Its a complete cop-out. Even if 99% of baseball does it (and I don't think its more than 50% tops, probably substantially less), then its still just as wrong.

 

One thing I haven't seen brought up much on this site, in the steroid discussion... there is a positive result to all of this. It took way too long, its still weak enforcement, and its ugly for the game, but... a lot fewer players are using now. I've seen players and coaches bring this up a lot lately. So, despite the ugliness, the good news is that fewer and fewer players are making these stupid decisions. Sunlight is a good thing.

 

[Milkman delivers]

First off, I never said anyone gets a free pass to cheat. ARods test was taken under the presumption it was annonymous or he had no responsibility to even take it. MLB has changed the rules. When ARod was positive there was no penalty. You can't go back and charge all the guys who blew a .15 40 years ago with drunk driving. Its time to move on. I just don't understand your thinking that amphetimines were nothing. Its common knowledge they were in every clubhouse.

Amphetimines were illegal,no? Good for you if you went to look for something in your garage and found a bag of amphetimines and proceed to pat your son on the back and say, at least they weren't steroids.(This is just a hypothetical, I don't know even if you have a son and I'm not implying this would occur) Why do you think amphetimine use is OK? Just because it wasn't universally considered that DUI wasn't that big of a deal 30-40 years ago by a lot of society, didn't make it right. Hence, the laws were change. It also wasn't frowned upon for a pregnant woman to smoke and get wasted, now it is. Amphetimines were PEDs. They were cheating. If 30 years ago, the players thought it was no big deal, so what. The players today have the same attitude toward steroids. If you can go back 6 years for ARod's test, when there were no penalties, why can't you go back 40 and if you found out Willie Mays was hopped up on amphetimines, for which there now is a test, shouldn't his HOF status be reconsidered?

 

This is baseball, not a court of law. They can punish him however they see fit, and seeing as steroids were banned at the time, I don't give a s*** how severely they punish him.

[nitetrain8601]

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/18/sports/b...mp;ref=baseball

 

Rodriguez’s Timeline Reveals Inconsistencies

By THE NEW YORK TIMES

 

In an interview Feb. 9 with Peter Gammons, Alex Rodriguez indicated that he used banned substances for two full seasons, but stopped during spring training in 2003 after he injured his neck: “It was time to grow up, stop being selfish, stop being stupid and take control of whatever you’re ingesting.”

 

In his news conference Tuesday, Rodriguez said the introduction of a second level of drug testing was also a factor in his decision to quit. “After our voluntary test, the players voted for a major league drug policy. At that time, it became evident to me how serious this all was, and I decided to stop then.”

 

But the voluntary testing, which was anonymous, was conducted throughout the 2003 season. The second level of testing, which incorporated penalties, was not enacted until after the season, in November, when the results of the voluntary testing exceeded the agreed-upon 5 percent threshold.

 

It remains unclear when Rodriguez stopped using steroids, because his failed test came during the 2003 testing.

 

Rodriguez also misspoke when he said the players voted for the second level of testing “after” the voluntary testing. The entire testing plan was approved as part of the collective bargaining agreement the players ratified in 2002. There was no vote by the players in 2003.

[RockRaines]

I have a really hard time judging ARod. Yes he admitted it but (and I hope I have my facts straight) many of the tests back then were taken to establish weather MLB actually had a steroid problem. There wasn't a list of banned substances or penalties for taking any of this stuff in baseball at the time ARod is admitting to taking steroids . So basically he wasn't doing anything forbidden. If I'm wrong someone give me dates of when MLB instituted a policy against steroids and when they started making lists of what substances were banned . I do believe he was guilty of trying to keep pace with his peers and did little wrong according to the rules established at that time.

Yes, but then he came out and completely lied about what he took, why he took it and the frequency of when he took it. He's a filthy liar regardless of what the tests were about.

[RockRaines]

To be honest. Aramis Ramirez came out with a quote yesterday that I cannot agree more with. He basically said not everyone was "part of the culture". Not every player cheated, and the ones who did shamed the game.

 

[SoxFan562004]

To be honest. Aramis Ramirez came out with a quote yesterday that I cannot agree more with. He basically said not everyone was "part of the culture". Not every player cheated, and the ones who did shamed the game.

I agree with him, that's a great way to put it.

 

 

[Texsox]

First off, I never said anyone gets a free pass to cheat. ARods test was taken under the presumption it was annonymous or he had no responsibility to even take it. MLB has changed the rules. When ARod was positive there was no penalty. You can't go back and charge all the guys who blew a .15 40 years ago with drunk driving. Its time to move on. I just don't understand your thinking that amphetimines were nothing. Its common knowledge they were in every clubhouse.

Amphetimines were illegal,no? Good for you if you went to look for something in your garage and found a bag of amphetimines and proceed to pat your son on the back and say, at least they weren't steroids.(This is just a hypothetical, I don't know even if you have a son and I'm not implying this would occur) Why do you think amphetimine use is OK? Just because it wasn't universally considered that DUI wasn't that big of a deal 30-40 years ago by a lot of society, didn't make it right. Hence, the laws were change. It also wasn't frowned upon for a pregnant woman to smoke and get wasted, now it is. Amphetimines were PEDs. They were cheating. If 30 years ago, the players thought it was no big deal, so what. The players today have the same attitude toward steroids. If you can go back 6 years for ARod's test, when there were no penalties, why can't you go back 40 and if you found out Willie Mays was hopped up on amphetimines, for which there now is a test, shouldn't his HOF status be reconsidered?

 

Dick, two options

 

A. We made a big mistake in the 1970s by not cracking down on the amphetamine usage. So now our hands are tied and we can't do anything about steroids

 

or

 

B. We made a big mistake in the 1970s by not cracking down on the amphetamine usage. We are not going to make that same mistake again with steroids, we are going to do something.

 

I pick B. Explain why baseball should make the same mistake twice?

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Yes, but then he came out and completely lied about what he took, why he took it and the frequency of when he took it. He's a filthy liar regardless of what the tests were about.

I assume you smoke weed based on everything I see and hear from you . Have you admitted that you do to your parents? Have to told your younger siblings ? Your grandparents? Your employer ? Have they ever asked you and you said no ? I don''t expect you to answer these questions . They're just designed to draw a parallel on life situations where we feel a need to lie .

 

I think we take these holier than thou attitudes and act like we've never done anything wrong or made huge mistakes with our lives. There's no age where humans stop making dumb mistakes. Underage drinking, doing drugs, cheating at a board game to win just to name some of the dumb things that most of us have done that we just gloss over and forget about when we start judging others. Then there's a lot worse things like drinking and driving and spousal abuse that are really dumb that often go unpunished because we don't get caught. I hear these reporters asking or remarking "gee Arod was 25, 26 , 27 yrs old when do stop saying your young and dumb" like we all automatically stop making mistakes when we get older.

 

The Sosa , McGwire , Bonds, record shattering performances were all great fun and drama at the time they were happening. Maybe we're all better off being blissfully unaware.

 

 

 

[fathom]

ESPN deportes claiming the substance ARod said he took wasn't available over the counter in the Domincan during the time period he revealed.

[Texsox]

ESPN deportes claiming the substance ARod said he took wasn't available over the counter in the Domincan during the time period he revealed.

 

 

D'Oh! I guess those $1,500 per hour PR professionals forgot to check out all the details.

 

BYW, I will bet, just like some Mexican pharmacies, OTC is a relative term and he very well may have bought it OTC. But, I am not in the frame of mind to give him any benefit of the doubt.

[RockRaines]

I assume you smoke weed based on everything I see and hear from you . Have you admitted that you do to your parents? Have to told your younger siblings ? Your grandparents? Your employer ? Have they ever asked you and you said no ? I don''t expect you to answer these questions . They're just designed to draw a parallel on life situations where we feel a need to lie .

Dont have any grandparents or younger siblings. Plus I'm an adult so I dont need to tell my parents everything I do, but I also dont lie if asked the question. Its not exactly something that I think is wrong, at all. My usage is mostly medicinal.

 

 

And the reason I reacted about A-rod the way I did is because I felt like he was assuming everyone in the world is stupid enough to believe his ridiculous story. I've been to the DR, I know whats in their pharmacias. I know what routine people who juice are on and I know the almost OCD nature that those users administer their drugs. It was a bold face lie, and everyone who watched it should feel appalled that he thought you were stupid enough to believe it.

Edited February 20, 2009 by RockRaines

[G&T]

Yankees star Alex Rodriguez has had a long relationship with a steroid-linked trainer who's been banned from major-league clubhouses, The Daily News in New York reported Friday.

 

Angel Presinal, banned after an October 2001 incident involving an unmarked gym bag full of steroids, has been an associate of Rodriguez dating back to his time with the Texas Rangers, several sources told the paper.

One said Presinal accompanied Rodriguez for the entire 2007 season, staying in a hotel room during road trips with the cousin Rodriguez pegged three days ago as his steroid source from 2001-03. The cousin was identified Thursday as Yuri Sucart.

 

The source said Rodriguez avoided being seen in public with Presinal, whose name surfaced in the Mitchell Report in December 2007, but had contact with him in New York and Miami as recently as this past fall.

 

This is the guy in the Juan Gonzalez incident.

 

FoxSport

[Steff]

I don't understand how some of you are saying MLB had no "drug policy" until 2007. It's had one in writing since 1971. Bowie Kuhn made it crystal clear that " all baseball personnel must comply with state and federal drug laws". Then in 91 Vincent and Selig got even more clear stating specifically that roids were directly prohibited without a "valid" script. Then again in '97 adding that players caught would risk "permanent explusion from the game".

[Steff]

This is the guy in the Juan Gonzalez incident.

 

FoxSport

 

 

I agree. I heard he was using in 2007. Serono, Cypoinate, and Anavar.