Pop Culture Question

[SI1020]

While I've been doing a pretty good job avoiding politics I hope I'm not opening up another can of worms here. I have a question and don't wish to start an argument. What's with Eminem's sudden popularity among baby boomers ( those born between 1946-1964) ? I wonder if someone could educate me here. Like I said I don't want to start an argument, but I am curious. I know my own musical, movie and artistic tastes are not mainstream. I do like to keep up to date so in that vein I ask the question.

[LowerCaseRepublican]

Eminem popular among baby boomers? Holy s***. Who knew?

[Spiff]

Well if those baby boomers like good rap, then it only seems logical they would like his stuff. I think most of them are smart enough to know when he's kidding.

[Chisoxfn]

I never knew he was in amongst the baby boomers. I do know he's in amongst the younger crowd.

 

I can't really see many of the baby boomers liking Eminem, but if thats the case, then all I can say is wow.

[doubleM23]

I didn't know Baby Boomers were big on Eminem, but like Spiff said, if they like good rap, there's no better option than Slim.

[Jjav829]

Yeah, I heard that a few days ago that he is drawing the baby boomers now. I don't really have an answer. I find it kind of surprising actually.

[cwsox]

I am a baby boomer. Turned 50 this summer. So this looks like a job for me, so everyone, just follow me, cuz we need a little controversy...

 

I love Eminem - saw him in concert this year at Rosemont, and only last minute problems kept me from seeing him in Detroit. Don't ask how many times I have seen 8 Mile.

 

As far as baby boomers and Em, recent NYT magazine story and the current New Yorker have referenced Em's growing popularity amongst the boomer crowd.

 

With my friends, some still think I am crazy for loving Em's music, but less than there used to be, and some are getting as enthusiastic about him as I am.

 

Not all of us lead lives trapped in classic rock. I like good music period. And that includes liking good rap.

 

As far as Em: some will scoff, but not since the Beatles has there been something so fresh and new, so brilliant, so compelling. That is assuming one "gets" Em, but then, some didn't "get" the Beatles either.

 

His lyrics are marvels of the wordsmith's art. His social observations are incredibly insightful. The guy is just plain f***ing brilliant. I also think he has a fantatsic wit. His delivery - he commands the stage that he is on, has rare presence, and he delivers with a ferocity and passion that put most performers to shame.

 

His music itself is fantastic. If one follows musical phrasing, counterpoint, the musical expressiveness, again, not since the Beatles Sgt. Pepper and White Album have we heard such genius and musical creativity.

 

I think the little punk kid (alrthough he is 30, not a kid) is the Mozart of our day.

 

Two of my friends who know the most about music, big Em fans. My best buddy, a great guy but who has never really listened to Eminem and just knows what he has heard, thinks I am an idiot and thinks Em is scum. But a year ago, it was just me. I am watching my friends come over to the Slim Shady side one by one.

 

Other recent albums purchases for me include Xzibit, Ludacris, Jay-Z, TLC, Mary J, Blige, and of course 8 Mile. As I said, not all of my generation listens only to music by dead white guys.

 

I know there will be posts bashing Eminem like there are every time his work is discussed. And some people will think I am a lunatic. But as hotsoxchick knows, I am a seasons ticket holder to the Lyric Opera. Viewing Em's work through operatic eyes, taking each album as if it were an individual opera, it works. The scope, the connectedness of it all, is there.

 

And I think that a person "gets" Eminem or doesn't. But if a person gets it, you realize he is far and away the most incredible talent to emerge in a long time.

 

"Ya gotta live it to feel it, If you didn't you wouldn't get it, We'll see what the big deal is,

Why it wasn't, it still is." M. Mathers

[cwsox]

Originally posted by doubleM23

I didn't know Baby Boomers were big on Eminem, but like Spiff said, if they like good rap, there's no better option than Slim.

 

 

 

Exactly.

[cwsox]

Originally posted by Spiff

I think most of them are smart enough to know when he's kidding.

 

Thank you... some of us are smart enough...

[cwsox]

I can't really see many of the baby boomers liking Eminem, but if thats the case, then all I can say is wow.

 

You should see him in concert - talk about Wow.

 

When I saw Eminem in Chicago, I was amazed at how polite and nice the audience was, best crowd that I have ever been in. The kids were there for one reason - to rock out - and I was impressed by them. Once Em took the stage, the place was total energy - and when it was over, everyone went back to being totally polite.

 

And that is not just my own opinion. In the New York Times magazine article, they also commented on the totally pleasant, polite crowd at the Palace in Detroit (Auburn Hills) that was there to enjoy the music and that they did. The NYT also noted something that I did - very small grass usage by Em's audience. The air was maybe 95% less marijuana smoking than at the last Dylan concert I attended.

[CubKilla]

Originally posted by cwsox

I am a baby boomer. Turned 50 this summer. So this looks like a job for me, so everyone, just follow me, cuz we need a little controversy... 

 

I love Eminem - saw him in concert this year at Rosemont, and only last minute problems kept me from seeing him in Detroit. Don't ask how many times I have seen 8 Mile. 

 

As far as baby boomers and Em, recent NYT magazine story and the current New Yorker have referenced Em's growing popularity amongst the boomer crowd. 

 

With my friends, some still think I am crazy for loving Em's music, but less than there used to be, and some are getting as enthusiastic about him as I am. 

 

Not all of us lead lives trapped in classic rock. I like good music period. And that includes liking good rap. 

 

As far as Em: some will scoff, but not since the Beatles has there been something so fresh and new, so brilliant, so compelling. That is assuming one "gets" Em, but then, some didn't "get" the Beatles either. 

 

His lyrics are marvels of the wordsmith's art. His social observations are incredibly insightful. The guy is just plain f***ing brilliant. I also think he has a fantatsic wit. His delivery - he commands the stage that he is on, has rare presence, and he delivers with a ferocity and passion that put most performers to shame. 

 

His music itself is fantastic. If one follows musical phrasing, counterpoint, the musical expressiveness, again, not since the Beatles Sgt. Pepper and White Album have we heard such genius and musical creativity. 

 

I think the little punk kid (alrthough he is 30, not a kid) is the Mozart of our day. 

 

Two of my friends who know the most about music, big Em fans. My best buddy, a great guy but who has never really listened to Eminem and just knows what he has heard, thinks I am an idiot and thinks Em is scum. But a year ago, it was just me. I am watching my friends come over to the Slim Shady side one by one. 

 

Other recent albums purchases for me include Xzibit, Ludacris, Jay-Z, TLC, Mary J, Blige, and of course 8 Mile. As I said, not all of my generation listens only to music by dead white guys. 

 

I know there will be posts bashing Eminem like there are every time his work is discussed. And some people will think I am a lunatic. But as hotsoxchick knows, I am a seasons ticket holder to the Lyric Opera. Viewing Em's work through operatic eyes, taking each album as if it were an individual opera, it works. The scope, the connectedness of it all, is there. 

 

And I think that a person "gets" Eminem or doesn't. But if a person gets it, you realize he is far and away the most incredible talent to emerge in a long time. 

 

"Ya gotta live it to feel it, If you didn't you wouldn't get it, We'll see what the big deal is, 

Why it wasn't, it still is." M. Mathers

 

Let me preface this with I am a fan of Eminem. As a matter of fact, I own his last 2 albums. His lyrics and their commentary on today's society are very much in tune with what the Beatles were doing lyrically in their later years. But musically, you cannot compare the two. Where the Beatles composed almost every note of every song they sang, Em just breaks his lyrics down over a pre-recorded bass line with computer-generated hi-hats, snares, horns, bells, etc. There is no way you can compare the two musically. JMHO though.

[Guest hotsoxchick1]

i too am one of those who fall into that catagory of baby boomer... i never knew he was the "in" thing amoung us.... i can take him or leave him..... mostly leave him cause i have other musical interests and hes not tops on my charts.........to put it in regular words.... I HATE RAP IN ANY FORM...........

[SI1020]

Originally posted by hotsoxchick1

i too am one of those who fall into that catagory of baby boomer... i never knew he was the "in" thing amoung us.... i can take him or leave him..... mostly leave him cause i have other musical interests and hes not tops on my  charts.........to put it in regular words.... I HATE RAP IN ANY FORM...........

I do too, but I recognize it's here and popular. They say rap started about 1977 at some South Bronx clubs where DJ's at dances would scratch records while simultaneously "rapping" impromtu words to a dance record playing. I forget the movie where Bruce Willis gets captured by the bad guys and just before one commences to beat him up he says to him "I want to hear you scream." The Willis character replies "Play some rap music." That 's about the way I feel. But I notice that folks both left and right politically here are rap fans. I am a music lover myself but my favorites are jazz and blues. I don't imagine there are many Thelonious Monk, Charlie Parker, Django Rheinhardt or Dizzie Gillespie fans on this board. None of my three twenty something kids likes rap, but I think they are the exception rather than the rule. None of them are jazz fans either. Oh well, to each his own. I love music just as much as baseball, but these are not great times to be a Sox fan or a lover of certain types of music.

[SI1020]

I forgot to add this. In 1987 I was an adult college student doing a stint of student teaching in an inner city school. One day in a fit of exasperation I did a spontaneous rap to a class. It actually got them to shut up for the duration of the period. They couldn't believe I would do that. I also did bench presses in the weight room with the football team. I did what I had to do to survive.

[cwsox]

His lyrics and their commentary on today's society are very much in tune with what the Beatles were doing lyrically in their later years. But musically, you cannot compare the two. Where the Beatles composed almost every note of every song they sang, Em just breaks his lyrics down over a pre-recorded bass line with computer-generated hi-hats, snares, horns, bells, etc. There is no way you can compare the two musically. JMHO though.

 

But it is music in a different form. 35 years there were many who were saying that what the Beatles were doing was just noise and not "real" music. Anyone can take a pre-recorded bass line, etc., and put something together - hell, I can do that on my Radio Shack keyboard. But play, for example, Nellie or Ludacris or almost any other rapper and you hear rap (words) overlaid on beat, and then play Em's stuff - there is something going on in Em's stuff musically that is IMHO very innovative and brilliant. No, he is not writing music in its traditional sense but I think that neither Lennon nor McCartney could write music either, in terms of writing notes on a scale (and some would argue that McCartney's post Beatles career proves he forgot how to make music...). And I don't think Harrison could either, they could not write music, but they could make music. And their work was criticized when they first used 4 tracks and then 8 tracks and other things we think of now as primitive in that genre.

 

But listen to McCartney's so-called classical work, his concerto/symphony whatever he called it, and it is good pop, it is not Mozart. Lennon and McCartney excelled in rock and pop, two forms of music that had its own standards and definitions and tools. I am defining musicanship here as taking the materials at hand in the medium. For the rap medium, which uses scratching and sampling and pre-recorded bass lines, etc., to put it together like Eminem does shows some incredible musicanship. Give Nellie the same words as Em has and it won't sound the same, not anywhere near as good. The angry blonde kid has a musical gift, again of course IMHO.

 

Sorry, HSC, we can never marry, alas, which means I lose the most splendid woman in the world, but I play rap too much for someone who hates it. That's ok, I love you anyway, you know that, and I think rap is an acquired taste.

 

Now for those who were so surprized that "old" people could appreciate Eminem, don't be that surprized.

 

The #1 purpose of rock is to piss off your parents. And Em does that quite well. But once the parents start to listen, if they listen, sometimes they will hear good music. My generation grew up with American Bandstand, where music was always rated as "having a good beat" and "you can dance to it." Em certainly has a good beat, and dancing to it, I suppose, depends on how you dance, but it is hard to sit still when he is playing.

 

Give me Em any day over Britney Spears -- although as Em says, right now she's probably giving head to Fred Durst and or Carson Daly. And I think Em has a long career ahead of him.

 

Reflect on this, young ones - at one time or another, Elvis, the Beatles, Kiss, Arrowsmith, Queen, Alice Cooper, Marilyn Manson all really seemed over the top and outrageous. Most of them are mainstream now, and the rest, quaintly eccentric. Ozzy once outraged a generation of parents and now he is family viewing. So Em was the 1999-2001 ultimate piss off your parents artist. Now that his fan base is broadening, once the parents (or in my case, grandparent) starts embracing Em, what will have to come along to be the next piss off your parents music? What will some day come along that will make Em seem safe and tame? Trust me, it will happen.

 

And 30 years from now, children, you will be bashing your children's music as being noise and crap and not at all as good as the music was when you were a kid. You either keep embracing new music or you become an old nasty fossil screaming "turn that s*** off." It will happen to you, you will die before you get old, you will criticize what you don't understand, unless you really resist it.

[cwsox]

I don't imagine there are many Thelonious Monk, Charlie Parker, Django Rheinhardt or Dizzie Gillespie fans on this board. None of my three twenty something kids likes rap, but I think they are the exception rather than the rule. None of them are jazz fans either. Oh well, to each his own. I love music just as much as baseball, but these are not great times to be a Sox fan or a lover of certain types of music.   

 

Have you heard Joni Mitchell's newest release? Some of her stuff from her work with Charles Mingus is on it, and it has all been re-arranged with Herbie Hancock, Wayne Shorter, etc. It is not really jazz as I know jazz, but it is close.

 

Django Rheinhardt's name pops up now and again. I don't think I have ever heard a note of his music but I know that he is praised by a lot of great artists out there in genres other than jazz.

[cwsox]

SI1020, there is good news in jazz!

 

From the NPR site: Saxophone legend John Coltrane's 1964 recording A Love Supreme is one of the masterworks in the canon of jazz. A new edition includes the only live performance of the complete work. Writer Ashley Kahn, whose new book goes behind the scenes of the landmark album, has an essay on the project.

 

It was performed in Paris, I think, somewhere in France, and from what snippets I heard, it sounds great. The tape of it was sitting in storage somewhere, it had been forgotten that this recording existed, and then it was discovered, etc.

 

Don't say these aren't great days to be a jazz or Sox fan - there is always something good happening.

[baggio202]

im another of the baby boomer generation..as you guys know im not an eminem fan or a fan of rap..just not my style..i grew up on rock and R and B but my favorite bands always had a big jazz influence in their music (earth wind and fire, chicago , steely dan , supertramp , stones from the early 70's)..i like bands that incorporate more than just 2 guitars , a bass and drums...in rap you dont even have that..basically they lay down bass tracks and rap over it...

 

i liken rap music to punk rock...it is more of a social statement first then musically correct later...i was big into punk for about a year (sex pistols - if you can believe that!!) because basically the late 70's were boring and punk music filled a viod i guess..i like p-funk too (brothers johnson, bands like that)..p-funk wasnt a difficult form of music to master either...

 

is rap here to stay??..well its lasted longer than i thought it would..longer then punk or p-funk..so who knows..but i gotta think that because its very limited in its pure form (drums and a bass) that eventually it will either die out all together or evolve into a more mainstream sound...

 

only time will tell:metal

[CubKilla]

Originally posted by cwsox

His lyrics and their commentary on today's society are very much in tune with what the Beatles were doing lyrically in their later years. But musically, you cannot compare the two. Where the Beatles composed almost every note of every song they sang, Em just breaks his lyrics down over a pre-recorded bass line with computer-generated hi-hats, snares, horns, bells, etc. There is no way you can compare the two musically. JMHO though.

 

But it is music in a different form. 35 years there were many who were saying that what the Beatles were doing was just noise and not "real" music. Anyone can take a pre-recorded bass line, etc., and put something together - hell, I can do that on my Radio Shack keyboard. But play, for example, Nellie or Ludacris or almost any other rapper and you hear rap (words) overlaid on beat, and then play Em's stuff - there is something going on in Em's stuff musically that is IMHO very innovative and brilliant. No, he is not writing music in its traditional sense but I think that neither Lennon nor McCartney could write music either, in terms of writing notes on a scale (and some would argue that McCartney's post Beatles career proves he forgot how to make music...). And I don't think Harrison could either, they could not write music, but they could make music. And their work was criticized when they first used 4 tracks and then 8 tracks and other things we think of now as primitive in that genre.

 

But listen to McCartney's so-called classical work, his concerto/symphony whatever he called it, and it is good pop, it is not Mozart. Lennon and McCartney excelled in rock and pop, two forms of music that had its own standards and definitions and tools. I am defining musicanship here as taking the materials at hand in the medium. For the rap medium, which uses scratching and sampling and pre-recorded bass lines, etc., to put it together like Eminem does shows some incredible musicanship. Give Nellie the same words as Em has and it won't sound the same, not anywhere near as good. The angry blonde kid has a musical gift, again of course IMHO.

 

Sorry, HSC, we can never marry, alas, which means I lose the most splendid woman in the world, but I play rap too much for someone who hates it. That's ok, I love you anyway, you know that, and I think rap is an acquired taste.

 

Now for those who were so surprized that "old" people could appreciate Eminem, don't be that surprized.

 

The #1 purpose of rock is to piss off your parents. And Em does that quite well. But once the parents start to listen, if they listen, sometimes they will hear good music. My generation grew up with American Bandstand, where music was always rated as "having a good beat" and "you can dance to it." Em certainly has a good beat, and dancing to it, I suppose, depends on how you dance, but it is hard to sit still when he is playing.

 

Give me Em any day over Britney Spears -- although as Em says, right now she's probably giving head to Fred Durst and or Carson Daly. And I think Em has a long career ahead of him.

 

Reflect on this, young ones - at one time or another, Elvis, the Beatles, Kiss, Arrowsmith, Queen, Alice Cooper, Marilyn Manson all really seemed over the top and outrageous. Most of them are mainstream now, and the rest, quaintly eccentric. Ozzy once outraged a generation of parents and now he is family viewing. So Em was the 1999-2001 ultimate piss off your parents artist. Now that his fan base is broadening, once the parents (or in my case, grandparent) starts embracing Em, what will have to come along to be the next piss off your parents music? What will some day come along that will make Em seem safe and tame? Trust me, it will happen.

 

And 30 years from now, children, you will be bashing your children's music as being noise and crap and not at all as good as the music was when you were a kid. You either keep embracing new music or you become an old nasty fossil screaming "turn that s*** off." It will happen to you, you will die before you get old, you will criticize what you don't understand, unless you really resist it.

 

As a music fan CW, I know where you are coming from. Anybody that says rap isn't music or that it isn't difficult to meld two different beats into one is uninformed and should try to rap something meaningful and socially impacting on the scale of an Eminem. My point that I failed to make though was that Eminem's music is definitely more impacting lyrically than it is musically. Where as the Beatles were more impacting musically than lyrically. For example..... most people couldn't tell you the lyrics to "A Hard Day's Night" but most could tell you that it is a Beatles tune just from hearing the first guitar note. Eminem's music will go down for it's lyrical quality..... not so much the musical content.

[Chisoxfn]

Its been a hard days night....

 

I could sing it if I had the song playing right now.

[SI1020]

Originally posted by cwsox

I don't imagine there are many Thelonious Monk, Charlie Parker, Django Rheinhardt or Dizzie Gillespie fans on this board. None of my three twenty something kids likes rap, but I think they are the exception rather than the rule. None of them are jazz fans either. Oh well, to each his own. I love music just as much as baseball, but these are not great times to be a Sox fan or a lover of certain types of music.   

 

Have you heard Joni Mitchell's newest release? Some of her stuff from her work with Charles Mingus is on it, and it has all been re-arranged with Herbie Hancock, Wayne Shorter, etc. It is not really jazz as I know jazz, but it is close.

 

Django Rheinhardt's name pops up now and again. I don't think I have ever heard a note of his music but I know that he is praised by a lot of great artists out there in genres other than jazz.

Django Rheinhardt was a French speaking Belgian gypsy, yes a real live gypsy who traveled with a caravan in his youth. He was injured in a horrible fire that rendered two fingers in his fretting hand useless. Despite this severe handicap he became a guitarist of legendary status. It is hard, if not impossible to describe his style. It comes out as a mixture of gypsy, European folk, and modern (for its time) American jazz. Early in his career his best recordings were with French jazz violinist Stephane Grapelly, another musical genius. Later he did good work with French clarinetist Hubert Rostaing, the most underrated jazz musician I ever heard. Rheinhardt's music is emotional, romantic and powerful. His style is unimitatable, although many have tried. He died in 1953 in France. I believe he was in his 40's. The only other jazz guitarists I would mention in the same breath with Django Rheinhardt are the late Wes Montgomery and Les Paul, who to the best of my knowledge still lives (in his 80's) and has even appeared on stage with rock idols such as Eric Clapton. One more thing, in the late 30's when many guitarists were switching from accoustical to the "newfangled" electric guitar Django Rheinhardt made the transition flawlessly.

[Spiff]

Originally posted by Chisoxfn

Its been a hard days night....

 

I could sing it if I had the song playing right now.

 

and I been workin' like a dog/It's been a hard day's night/ I should be sleepin like a log/ But when I get home to you/ I find the things that you do / They make me feel alright/

 

I don't even like the Beatles but somehow I know that song.

[Chisoxfn]

Beatles are awesome. I made myself a greatest hits cd of them and its two full cd's and like 58 songs and I still know I didn't get all their good stuff.

[Guest hotsoxchick1]

well cw i do happen to like that opera thing of yours.... but the rap has to take a side car i cant live with it....i would much rather sit and be subjected to hours of conway twitty and johnny cash, (and lord knows i hate country muisic too lol) than have to be subjected to one minute of rap, thats how much i cant stand it........i guess we will always have forever our opera and things like the beatles, aerosmith, ted nugent, elo, beach boys,santana,alice cooper and alice in chains. and every other kind of music under the sun... just leave the rap crap at home.........lol:metal

[Spiff]

Originally posted by cwsox

Other recent albums purchases for me include Xzibit, Ludacris, Jay-Z, TLC, Mary J, Blige, and of course 8 Mile. As I said, not all of my generation listens only to music by dead white guys.

 

8 mile soundtrack is great. All of Eminem's songs are good, and I especially like them because their style reminds me of the Slim Shady LP. There is a sense of desperation in them, and it gets through to you. I wish he would revert more to this kind, but it's not like the Eminem Show or Marshall Mathers LP are bad or anything.

 

Also, I like Obie and 50 cent's tracks, but Rap Game might be the best one on the album.