Thome Felt Worn Down Near the End of Last Season, Feels Good Now

[RockRaines]

Good OBP or not, I'd rather not have a player who can no longer play a position on the field wasting a spot on the 25-man roster as DH. Thome's nothing more than a glorified pinch-hitter, if you think about it.

I thought about it, and it turns out you are wrong. Since he comes up to bat the same amount of times per game as every player in the field he couldnt possibly be called a pinch hitter. He is a DESIGNATED hitter which means his bat is what he contributes and a good power one at that.

[Greg Hibbard]

I think you guys are piling on a bit.

 

I also think the point is well taken that it would be refreshing to see this team not have to play at least 1 (probably 2 and sometimes even 3) DH's in the field because in essence they are putting a guy at DH who essentially can no longer play the field. Pie in the sky with me for a minute and think about being able to use a guy like Fields at DH who actually has value defensively (albeit not a whole lot) and isn't a liability on the basepaths.

 

Thome is still a very valuable baseball player in terms of getting on base, that's true. But how many times has him being on the basepaths cost us a subsequent out in an inning because he is slow as dirt? This is an unquantifiable statistic, but a very real aspect of the game. It applies to Konerko too. .362 OBP means less if essentially the man cannot score from second on a single.

[NorthSideSox72]

I think you guys are piling on a bit.

 

I also think the point is well taken that it would be refreshing to see this team not have to play at least 1 (probably 2 and sometimes even 3) DH's in the field because in essence they are putting a guy at DH who essentially can no longer play the field. Pie in the sky with me for a minute and think about being able to use a guy like Fields at DH who actually has value defensively (albeit not a whole lot) and isn't a liability on the basepaths.

 

Thome is still a very valuable baseball player in terms of getting on base, that's true. But how many times has him being on the basepaths cost us a subsequent out in an inning because he is slow as dirt? This is an unquantifiable statistic, but a very real aspect of the game. It applies to Konerko too. .362 OBP means less if essentially the man cannot score from second on a single.

Thome isn't exactly a liability on the basepaths. He's pretty slow, but he is a smart baserunner, and he's faster on the paths than Konerko, Crede, AJ, and some others who have been on the team in recent years. I think he tends to get a worse rep than he deserves in that department.

 

 

[Greg Hibbard]

Thome isn't exactly a liability on the basepaths. He's pretty slow, but he is a smart baserunner, and he's faster on the paths than Konerko, Crede, AJ, and some others who have been on the team in recent years. I think he tends to get a worse rep than he deserves in that department.

 

He might be a smart baserunner, but IIRC he got sent a lot of times and was out at the plate. Maybe that's on the third base coach, but many times it wasn't even close. Also, Thome has an expected injury factor that limits the number of games we can use him in. Based on his history and makeup, him playing 150+ games in 2009 would be miraculous.

[NorthSideSox72]

He might be a smart baserunner, but IIRC he got sent a lot of times and was out at the plate. Maybe that's on the third base coach, but many times it wasn't even close. Also, Thome has an expected injury factor that limits the number of games we can use him in. Based on his history and makeup, him playing 150+ games in 2009 would be miraculous.

I don't disagree on his injury situation, at all. I've predicted myself in that "BOLD" thread that he'll miss games and fall back. I was specifically addressing baserunning, where I think he's not nearly as bad as he's made out to be.

 

Now Konerko, for example, there is your slowest guy. He may be the slowest position player in all of baseball.

 

[ILMOU]

Now Konerko, for example, there is your slowest guy. He may be the slowest position player in all of baseball.

 

^^^^^

 

Konerko might well be the slowest player I've ever seen, though I never saw "El Guapo" Garces run.

 

"Ground ball to short, it's booted into shallow left.. Oh my!! The left fielder and short stop have collided and are rolling around in pain ....The third baseman is retrieving the ball.. Long THROOOWWWW! And Konerko's out at first by three steps!!!

 

Thome, JD, AJ, and Crede in hospital traction can all run circles around Paulie.

[Kalapse]

No one and I mean NO ONE is slower than Bengie Molina and it isn't particularly close.

[ptatc]

No one and I mean NO ONE is slower than Bengie Molina and it isn't particularly close.

 

the slowest person I've ever seen in MLB was a White sox catcher named Marc "Booter" Hill. I saw him get thrown out at first on a hit to the center fielder up the middle. He was "running" the whole time. It wasn't like he stopped because he thought the SS or 2B was going to get to the ball.

 

I didn't think it was possible.

[elrockinMT]

What? He DH'd 90% of the time. Man it must be tough to swing a bat.

 

 

Physical fitness routine, wierd hours, travel, 100% hustle all adds up I am sure. Jim Thome is a fine fellow

[greg775]

The reason Thome didn't miss any time in '08 was because he needed his option for '09 to vest.

 

$100 says he doesn't get 450 at-bats this year. He'll take a break in June or July.

 

Pick on some other guy. From everything we've heard and read, Thome is pure class. Maybe Steph or somebody else who knows the team can comment further.

I don't like Jimmy much when he belts the ball right into the shift, but no doubt he is a stud.

And it's possible he's not a steroid guy. Maybe even probable he's not, just like Big Hurt.

If everybody bet you that 100 dollars you'd be broke.

Of course he could have a serious injury and you'd happily win.

Edited February 19, 2009 by greg775

[lostfan]

^^^^^

 

Konerko might well be the slowest player I've ever seen, though I never saw "El Guapo" Garces run.

 

"Ground ball to short, it's booted into shallow left.. Oh my!! The left fielder and short stop have collided and are rolling around in pain ....The third baseman is retrieving the ball.. Long THROOOWWWW! And Konerko's out at first by three steps!!!

 

Thome, JD, AJ, and Crede in hospital traction can all run circles around Paulie.

[southsidehawkeye]

This is the main reason that I am really pulling for Viciedo to make a good transition to the MLB. If he could show that he is ready to step up if needed this year, that will really ease my worries about Thome and to a lesser extent Dye and Konerko's health this year. With Viciedo ready to step up and play DH, 3B, or according to Ozzie maybe even LF I would feel a lot better about this team. As it is right now I worry that one or two injuries (which every team runs into every year) could spell the end of our contention.

[SouthsideDon48]

LOL, glorified pinch hitter, are you serious? I would like to see all the pinch hitters in the league that can hit 34 home runs and have a .362 OBP playing full time. You can't have speedy slap hitters as your DH, Thome is the least of this team's problems.

 

Why not have a speedy slap hitter as a DH? That's exactly what this team needs, someone that can slap the ball through the infield gaps for a base hit.

 

The DH position should be utilized similar to how the Los Angeles Angels used it last year with their crowded outfield.

 

I'd also much rather have a player that can actually still play on the field as a DH instead of a guy who gets sore playing 1B in interleague games like Thome does. I think a player like Ty Wigginton, a player that can play multiple positions, would be a perfect DH player.

 

[SouthsideDon48]

This coming from a guy who thinks an unproven 19-year old Cuban who has never seen major league pitching will at least top Frank Thomas in home runs. It's all beginning to make sense now.

 

There is a big difference between making predictions on a rookie like Viceido and stating the obvious that a veteran Thome is no longer as valuable because he's unable to play a position.

 

Plus, Viciedo might even be able to play as many as 3 positions: 3B, LF, 1B. Viciedo can even play DH at 19/20 years old while still having the ability to play positions on the field. To me, that's much more of a valuable commodity than having an aging player like Thome who can only play DH.

 

Even Paul Konerko, despite being slower than Thome, is a more valuable commodity because he can still play 1B, which Thome can't do.

 

 

[SouthsideDon48]

I thought about it, and it turns out you are wrong. Since he comes up to bat the same amount of times per game as every player in the field he couldnt possibly be called a pinch hitter. He is a DESIGNATED hitter which means his bat is what he contributes and a good power one at that.

 

He may contribute a good power bat to the batting order, but all his contributions are negated because of his inability to play a position on the field.

 

I'd rather have an aging player that can still play the field as a DH, even if it means they won't produce as much with their bat. Instead of Thome, I'd rather have a DH similar to Milton Bradley, Ty Wigginton, Adam Dunn, Rich Aurilia, Jerry Hairston Jr., and even Carl Everett, just to name a few.

 

The player batting at DH doesn't have to be a flashy big bopper, what really matters is if they complete the team on the positional depth chart.

Edited February 19, 2009 by SouthsideDon48

[NorthSideSox72]

This is the main reason that I am really pulling for Viciedo to make a good transition to the MLB. If he could show that he is ready to step up if needed this year, that will really ease my worries about Thome and to a lesser extent Dye and Konerko's health this year. With Viciedo ready to step up and play DH, 3B, or according to Ozzie maybe even LF I would feel a lot better about this team. As it is right now I worry that one or two injuries (which every team runs into every year) could spell the end of our contention.

Thome is a free agent after this year. I feel pretty confident that at least one of Brandon Allen or Dayan Viciedo are going to be ready to fill a slugger spot, if not maybe both, for 2010. You also have David Cook, maybe (unless he signed elsewhere), who I think has a notable shot at putting up big offensive numbers. Flowers too. There are a number of future sluggers who will be in the AA and AAA levels by the end of 2009, for filling 2010 holes.

 

 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

The reason Thome didn't miss any time in '08 was because he needed his option for '09 to vest.

 

$100 says he doesn't get 450 at-bats this year. He'll take a break in June or July.

Geez, cynical aren't we ? Everything most of us have read about Thome is that he's a top notch individual, devoted husband ,son, and father. So you're adding con man to this list?

[kapkomet]

Physical fitness routine, wierd hours, travel, 100% hustle all adds up I am sure. Jim Thome is a fine fellow

Read the rest of the thread, please.

 

[GREEDY]

Pick on some other guy. From everything we've heard and read, Thome is pure class. Maybe Steph or somebody else who knows the team can comment further.

I don't like Jimmy much when he belts the ball right into the shift, but no doubt he is a stud.

And it's possible he's not a steroid guy. Maybe even probable he's not, just like Big Hurt.

If everybody bet you that 100 dollars you'd be broke.

Of course he could have a serious injury and you'd happily win.

 

Not sure what steroids have to do with my speculation that Thome would have taken a few weeks off in '08 if it hadn't been for his option... but I'll bite

 

Just because Jim is a tad on the round side, doesn't mean he didn't use PEDs. I don't like how certain big guys get a pass just because they aren't ripped. Nice guys take shortcuts too. I don't believe Jeter, I think EVERYONE used substances that are now illegal. And I think they are using stuff now that will be illegal in the future. I really don't want to turn this into a juice discussion but I have read articles by two different sports writers that have hall votes stating that they won't vote for McGwire specifically because he has admitted to using Andro.... which amazingly was available over the counter at f***ING WALMART during the years he stated he used it. Despite the constant talk about PEDs in the media I can't believe how ignorant most when it comes to the subject, from message board posters to people with hall of fame votes.

 

Also, not sure what the shift has to do with my prediction, but again, you got me

 

NO PLAYER that faces the shift and refuses to at least attempt at changing his approach to take advantage are not "pure class" in my book, at least from a baseball standpoint. I'll admit it appears I am wrong on this one, as none of the lefty sluggers that managers shift against appear to try and combat it. While I was a D1 athlete (I didn't play a real sport, I was trying to be the best at exercising) I wasn't a baseball player, so I would buy a decent argument that proves that "messing with your swing" is a big mistake; but I see guys try and go "the other way" all the time, or an announcer will say "there is a big gap in RF"... wouldn't that involve changing an approach? Does a bunt attempt mess with your swing? Hope that made sense... couldn't really convey it well.

 

Finally, my prediction isn't a big one, I just think that there was no way that a little soreness or fatigue was going to keep Thome from vesting his option in '08. Just watch, Jim will take a few weeks off for a sore back or other non direct injury in '09 and he will end up with around 50 less at bats than in '08.

 

 

 

[NorthSideSox72]

Not sure what steroids have to do with my speculation that Thome would have taken a few weeks off in '08 if it hadn't been for his option... but I'll bite

 

Just because Jim is a tad on the round side, doesn't mean he didn't use PEDs. I don't like how certain big guys get a pass just because they aren't ripped. Nice guys take shortcuts too. I don't believe Jeter, I think EVERYONE used substances that are now illegal. And I think they are using stuff now that will be illegal in the future. I really don't want to turn this into a juice discussion but I have read articles by two different sports writers that have hall votes stating that they won't vote for McGwire specifically because he has admitted to using Andro.... which amazingly was available over the counter at f***ING WALMART during the years he stated he used it. Despite the constant talk about PEDs in the media I can't believe how ignorant most when it comes to the subject, from message board posters to people with hall of fame votes.

 

Also, not sure what the shift has to do with my prediction, but again, you got me

 

NO PLAYER that faces the shift and refuses to at least attempt at changing his approach to take advantage are not "pure class" in my book, at least from a baseball standpoint. I'll admit it appears I am wrong on this one, as none of the lefty sluggers that managers shift against appear to try and combat it. While I was a D1 athlete (I didn't play a real sport, I was trying to be the best at exercising) I wasn't a baseball player, so I would buy a decent argument that proves that "messing with your swing" is a big mistake; but I see guys try and go "the other way" all the time, or an announcer will say "there is a big gap in RF"... wouldn't that involve changing an approach? Does a bunt attempt mess with your swing? Hope that made sense... couldn't really convey it well.

 

Finally, my prediction isn't a big one, I just think that there was no way that a little soreness or fatigue was going to keep Thome from vesting his option in '08. Just watch, Jim will take a few weeks off for a sore back or other non direct injury in '09 and he will end up with around 50 less at bats than in '08.

If you watched Jim hit last year, you would see that he indeed did start working against that shift. And was sometimes successful.

 

Also, you think that "EVERYONE" used substances that are now illegal? Everyone? I don't think there is anything that "EVERYONE" in baseball does, other than basic bodliy functions. There are some that have done these things, and some that haven't. No one knows for sure what % of course.

 

[witesoxfan]

Why not have a speedy slap hitter as a DH? That's exactly what this team needs, someone that can slap the ball through the infield gaps for a base hit.

 

The DH position should be utilized similar to how the Los Angeles Angels used it last year with their crowded outfield.

 

I'd also much rather have a player that can actually still play on the field as a DH instead of a guy who gets sore playing 1B in interleague games like Thome does. I think a player like Ty Wigginton, a player that can play multiple positions, would be a perfect DH player.

 

Why would you want a player who can play multiple positions as a DH? That ruins the purpose of the DH, because you lose that versatility the second you pencil him in as the DH.

 

I also despise speedy slap hitters because it still takes two hits to score them. I'd much rather have the guy who can drive himself in with one hit than the guy who needs 3 hits to score 1 run.

[elrockinMT]

Read the rest of the thread, please.

 

 

Yes and now what?

[elrockinMT]

Why would you want a player who can play multiple positions as a DH? That ruins the purpose of the DH, because you lose that versatility the second you pencil him in as the DH.

 

I also despise speedy slap hitters because it still takes two hits to score them. I'd much rather have the guy who can drive himself in with one hit than the guy who needs 3 hits to score 1 run.

 

 

I think the DH rule is for the extra big bat so the aging power hitter is best suited for that and your speedsters, all around jacks are available to play positions when needed.

[hawksfan61]

Why not have a speedy slap hitter as a DH? That's exactly what this team needs, someone that can slap the ball through the infield gaps for a base hit.

 

The DH position should be utilized similar to how the Los Angeles Angels used it last year with their crowded outfield.

 

I'd also much rather have a player that can actually still play on the field as a DH instead of a guy who gets sore playing 1B in interleague games like Thome does. I think a player like Ty Wigginton, a player that can play multiple positions, would be a perfect DH player.

 

Unless that slap hitter is Ichiro, he has no business playing DH for an AL team that is trying to compete. You know why the Angels used the DH like that, its because they have no power hitters. If we offered Thome up to the Angels right now they would take him in heartbeat and plug him in at DH. Fast contact hitters are fine, but that is a player that should be playing CF or second base for you, not DH. The whole purpose of the DH is to allow a guy in your lineup that may be a poor fielder but a fantastic hitter, which is what Thome is at this point in his career. If you want to bust up the basecloggers, Konerko is the first guy on the chopping block. He is even slower than Thome, not as good of a hitter, and disappears for weeks or months at a time.

[Kalapse]

The Designated Hitters for the last 18 American League Champions:

 

2008: Cliff Floyd, 35, Defensive Ability: Zero

2007: David Ortiz, 31, Defensive Ability: Zero

2006: Marcus Thames, 29, Defensive Ability: Very little

2005: Carl Everett, 34, Defensive Ability: Very little

2004: David Ortiz, 28, Defensive Ability: Zero

2003: Jason Giambi, 32, Defensive Ability: Very little

2002: Brad Fullmer, 27, Defensive Ability: Very little

2001: David Justice, 35, Defensive Ability: Almost none

2000: Spencer/Canseco, 28/35, Defensive Ability: Moderate/Zero

1999: Chili Davis, 39, Defensive Ability: Less than zero

1998: Darryl Strawberry, 36, Defensive Ability: Zero

1997: David Justice, 31, Defensive Ability: Very little

1996: Ruben Sierra, 30, Defensive Ability: Very little

1995: Eddie Murray, 39, Defensive Ability: Less than zero

1993: Paul Molitor, 36, Defensive Ability: Very little

1992: Dave Winfield, 40, Defensive Ability: Less than zero

1991: Chili Davis, 31, Defensive Ability: Zero

1990: Harold Baines, 31, Defensive Ability: Fulltime DH