Longer school year?

[3E8]

Would the teachers' salaries increase by 33%?

[knightni]

Im sorry, but unless you have gone through the pressures of today's high school experience, then you wont understand it. Too many people forget how it was for them, or dont understand the new pressures of students in today's world and only know their situation.

 

I remember exactly how it went. I did many of those things that you mentioned.

Up at 6:30am, AP classes all day, 18 hour a week job after school, homework until 11pm. Music practices on the days that I wasn't at work.

National Honor Society, Quizzing, Pep Band, Marching Band, Concert Band, Choir, Drama, Musicals, Band Camp in the summer, college prep crap, writing papers without computers, working in the school for the decoration committee.

 

My point is, you're only adding around two hours of in-school time to the schedule.

Those two hours can be learning/practicing/studying/writing hours, hours that would have been used for the same thing at home without a teacher around to help.

 

 

 

 

[knightni]

Would the teachers' salaries increase by 33%?

The teachers would have a shorter school year.

[knightni]

Plus, there would be less homework and more homework time because the core classes would only be M-W-F, instead of every day. When you have a class on Monday, you'll have Monday and Tuesday night to do homework for it before Wednesday's class.

 

The Tues-Thur classes would be electives, less likely to have homework.

 

 

[bigruss]

I remember exactly how it went. I did many of those things that you mentioned.

Up at 6:30am, AP classes all day, 18 hour a week job after school, homework until 11pm. Music practices on the days that I wasn't at work.

National Honor Society, Quizzing, Pep Band, Marching Band, Concert Band, Choir, Drama, Musicals, Band Camp in the summer, college prep crap, writing papers without computers, working in the school for the decoration committee.

 

My point is, you're only adding around two hours of in-school time to the schedule.

Those two hours can be learning/practicing/studying/writing hours, hours that would have been used for the same thing at home without a teacher around to help.

Well, then I dont understand how you think its really feasible to add hours. I see that you think that there would be more homework time because of the day between class, but thats not how teachers think. Atleast AP teacehrs at my school. If teachers were given that long for homework and they didnt have class everyday with the student then they would be pushing even more homework with the student. It wouldnt matter to them that they had the same amount of class time, they see that extra time and assign more work.

 

In some theory, your idea may work. But in reality it wouldnt. Studies have shown that if school starts at 830 or 9am, then the more attentive students are throughout the day and grades go up. Starting earlier only brings grades down.

 

Plus, if you really want to help students prep for college, have them make their own decisions on how to spend those extra two hours, have them learn time management or to improve that skill.

 

Anyways, my school had the option of taking an extra hour of class, extending an individual's day from 230 to 330, but this limited sports alot of times for students, as any games after school would force students to miss that class, so those involved in sports couldnt really take it, but if you wanted to take it the option was there. I like this idea alot mroe than making it mandatory like you are putting it (even with your option of making it practice time).

[kev211]

I remember exactly how it went. I did many of those things that you mentioned.

Up at 6:30am, AP classes all day, 18 hour a week job after school, homework until 11pm. Music practices on the days that I wasn't at work.

National Honor Society, Quizzing, Pep Band, Marching Band, Concert Band, Choir, Drama, Musicals, Band Camp in the summer, college prep crap, writing papers without computers, working in the school for the decoration committee.

 

My point is, you're only adding around two hours of in-school time to the schedule.

Those two hours can be learning/practicing/studying/writing hours, hours that would have been used for the same thing at home without a teacher around to help.

You may say they can put those 2 hours to good use in school time. But in reality all it would do was cut into the already sleep deprived students sleep schedules. If it is done without a teacher then why not keep it outside of school so students can do it when they have time for it.

[smalls2598]

My girlfriend is a middle school math teacher. She said that if this change happens, she will find a new profession.

 

[knightni]

My girlfriend is a middle school math teacher. She said that if this change happens, she will find a new profession.

Yeah, it will suck only doing 3 lesson plans a week as opposed to 5 and finishing the school year on May 15.

 

 

 

 

[Disco72]

The earliest classes in college start at 8am. The longest non-lab class periods are 75 minutes. I had 90 minutes classes in high school with the block schedule, but it would have been impossible to have earlier classes and stay later. I was in sports broadcasting in high school and sometimes the out of school hours would consume an entire day. I would get done at 9 or 10 and go to bed not long after and still be sleep deprived having to wake up at 7am. The problem isn't the amount of hours, or the length of the school year. My high school was one of the highest rated in the state, mostly because the parents had money (but that's a different argument), and I feel confident in the quality of my education there. Compared to what a bunch of the other kids at school with me now had coming into college, I had a huge leg up. Like maggs said, if the teachers are good you will learn more and be prepared for college.

 

Also, did he think about the kids in poorer economic situations that have to work to get by and the summer is their chance to make more money?

 

These things may be true at your college, but they are not everywhere. I've taught classes starting earlier than 8am and classes as long as 2-1/2 hours (granted, only once per week).

 

From a teaching perspective, 50 minute classes (at least at the college level as I've never taught high school) are virtually worthless. There's so little time to do anything that really helps learning (no activities, exercise, good case discussions, etc.). 75 minute classes are better; 2-1/2 hour classes are too long (especially starting at 7:30am or 7:30pm) when most people are already tired.

 

While the "extend the school day" argument is interesting, I'd still rather see the school year extended if forced to choose between longer days and longer years. Of course, something will have to be done with teachers as well. At many schools (at least the high school teachers I know), they are already working extremely long hours during the school year and spend much of the summer lesson planning, revising curriculum, etc. It's not that much of a break for many teachers.

[Flash Tizzle]

YES!!!! Extend the school year! Limit summer vacation! After I'm done with school next fall they can do anything they want!

 

 

 

 

[Leonard Zelig]

Yeah, it will suck only doing 3 lesson plans a week as opposed to 5 and finishing the school year on May 15.

 

The classes in your proposed schedule are way too long for middle school students.

[bigruss]

These things may be true at your college, but they are not everywhere. I've taught classes starting earlier than 8am and classes as long as 2-1/2 hours (granted, only once per week).

 

From a teaching perspective, 50 minute classes (at least at the college level as I've never taught high school) are virtually worthless. There's so little time to do anything that really helps learning (no activities, exercise, good case discussions, etc.). 75 minute classes are better; 2-1/2 hour classes are too long (especially starting at 7:30am or 7:30pm) when most people are already tired.

 

While the "extend the school day" argument is interesting, I'd still rather see the school year extended if forced to choose between longer days and longer years. Of course, something will have to be done with teachers as well. At many schools (at least the high school teachers I know), they are already working extremely long hours during the school year and spend much of the summer lesson planning, revising curriculum, etc. It's not that much of a break for many teachers.

I believe many teach summer school where funding for that exists, so that the teachers increase their income that way.

[knightni]

The classes in your proposed schedule are way too long for middle school students.

I am proposing this for high school students grades 9-12.

[dasox24]

Kind of going off topic here, but reading all this stuff makes me wonder how I was able to function so well in high school. On average, I only slept about 6 hours/night (maybe 7 if I was lucky) b/c of school, sports, homework, and then time to wind down from the crazy day.

 

I'd wake up at 7. School started at 8 and got out at 3. Then, I'd have lacrosse practice until 6 every day (October-May). Then we'd work out in the weight room until 7 or 7:30, and I'd go home and do homework. Though, a lot of days I had SGA, Key Club, or some other kind of meeting late at night (8-ish), so I wouldn't get home until 9. That leaves an hour or 2 for homework, and then an hour of TV or reading or something before going to bed usually around 1am. And I did that every day at least Junior and Senior year.

 

Anyway, I think the summer break is absolutely a necessary part of the year. I had to work b/c I wasn't getting money from my parents, and there is absolutely no time to work during the school year when you have days like I (and many other students) did. I wouldn't have minded a block-scheduling type of schedule, but in no way do I think the school day or year should be extended. In addition to work, I absolutely couldn't have kept up my hectic schedule year round. The summer break is needed to get away from that environment, wind down, make some money, and have fun.

[Heads22]

In my opinion, it's the length of the school year that is the problem, it's the lack of incentives to become teachers. Teachers need to make more $$, so that more people see teaching as a career. Once teachers get the money they deserve, brighter people will decide to teach and the education system will benefit. I for one would hate having no summer; that is when you go to camp, enjoy the weather and such. I see no reason to change the school year, just give teachers money.

 

Most people aren't in it for the money now, which is both good and bad. The ones you get are fairly dedicated.

 

How about a longer school day in high school?

 

7am to 3:30pm.

 

Just like a real job.

 

Most kids in high school are making additional commitments to school that make it over 40 hours a week, between activities and homework.

 

It would be longer classes, and a longer day.

 

It's like that in college.

 

 

Mon-W-Fr can be English for 1 1/2 hr, Science for 2 hours, History for 1 1/2 hr, Math for 1 1/2 hours, 1 hr gym, two 15 minute breaks, 1 30 minute lunch.

 

Tu-Th can be electives.

 

And I think most college students feel less engaged and learn less per class than they ever did in high school. At least I feel that way.

 

I changed my thought.

 

In high school, there's no time for learning because an hour is barely enough time to cover everything.

 

Re: tired, go to bed like an adult and you won't be tired.

 

 

If there's a longer day, there's a shorter year.

 

It's an hour due to attention span. There's so much debate on block classes because of this.

 

 

Mine was 7:45 to 2:20, but if the day is longer, there's less of a chance for kids to get in trouble after school and more of a chance for teachers to actually teach.

 

If kids are going to get in trouble, an hour at the end of the school day isn't gonna change it.

 

 

There can be exemptions for athletics and music students who do after school activities.

 

The gym hour can slide to the last hour of the day and can be used as practice time.

 

Then you're completely overloading your phys. ed teachers.

 

 

There's not much difference between 7:30/7:45 and 7:00am.

 

They all feel way too early.

 

Trust me, especially in rural districts, it'd suck. Day starts at 7? Better be at school by 6:45. Could be a half hour drive or more, if you're getting picked up by a bus. Say the bus picks you up at 6 AM. Then you're probably up by 5:30 at the absolute latest. That gives a kid 7.5 hours of sleep if he went to bed at 10.....which kids don't and can't do. You'll have more luck asking for practices to be held before school and have the school day pushed to start at something like 10 am and getting pushed to 5 or 6 pm.

 

 

Plus, there would be less homework and more homework time because the core classes would only be M-W-F, instead of every day. When you have a class on Monday, you'll have Monday and Tuesday night to do homework for it before Wednesday's class.

 

The Tues-Thur classes would be electives, less likely to have homework.

 

 

Yeah, it will suck only doing 3 lesson plans a week as opposed to 5 and finishing the school year on May 15.

 

HAVE to have kids 5 days a week. They'll learn less if you only have them two or three. You lose all flow without consecutive days of learning. Wasn't it harder to adjust during snow days in the winter?

[knightni]

HAVE to have kids 5 days a week. They'll learn less if you only have them two or three. You lose all flow without consecutive days of learning. Wasn't it harder to adjust during snow days in the winter?

 

The kids would be in school 5 days a week, just not in math/science/English 5 days a week.

[Heads22]

The kids would be in school 5 days a week, just not in math/science/English 5 days a week.

 

They need those core classes 5 days a week, or they won't learn as much.

[LosMediasBlancas]

How about a longer school day in high school?

 

7am to 3:30pm.

 

Just like a real job.

 

If that's the case, keep them in school 70 hours a week. The 40 hour work week vanished many years ago.

[bmags]

I'd favor a longer school year. In comparison to other countries, we have a short school year due to some historic factors that aren't relevant for many areas in the country. If you'd ask me what would be better, I'd say that starting school Aug. 1st would be a better idea than adding 2 weeks to the end/2 weeks to the beginning. You'd have to deal with a strange semester break up, admittedly.

 

Someone brought up how this would affect lower education kids who might need these times to work. It is a good point, but frankly, I'd say it is likely better for the society to keep them in school more so that they have a better academic base to move ahead in the world. Better to give them the knowledge that will allow them to acquire better skills than the part time job would. This is not to disparage anyone who has worked their way up with just a high school education, I admire it, but I feel it may become more difficult nowadays to do the same, unless through self-employment.

 

Also, towns would need to pony up to pay for the extra months of a teachers salary. I know many teachers look forward to summer jobs for extra income, hopefully the added months salary could help.

 

Overall, I think extending the school year would be a beneficial idea, I think the discussion in here is important and I am glad that they were presented, but for the most part, could easily adapt to the new schedule when forced to.

[danman31]

I take it that you don't have a family?

Spending time with your family isn't supposed to be stressful. Spending time doing homework/studying is often very stressful and that constant grind could break and teenager.

 

I remember exactly how it went. I did many of those things that you mentioned.

Up at 6:30am, AP classes all day, 18 hour a week job after school, homework until 11pm. Music practices on the days that I wasn't at work.

National Honor Society, Quizzing, Pep Band, Marching Band, Concert Band, Choir, Drama, Musicals, Band Camp in the summer, college prep crap, writing papers without computers, working in the school for the decoration committee.

 

My point is, you're only adding around two hours of in-school time to the schedule.

Those two hours can be learning/practicing/studying/writing hours, hours that would have been used for the same thing at home without a teacher around to help.

This sounds great if days became 26 hours, but you're just taking the 2 hours from somewhere else. There is no more time in the day without driving more kids to drop out. Teachers wouldn't give 2 hours less homework so you can't just say 2 hours less of studying/writing hours.

[Iwritecode]

I could see a solution where the school year end date goes further into June and starts earlier in August, still providing a 5-6 week break including all of July.

 

Even before added all the snow days my kids will be in school until the first week of June. They started school around the 3rd week of August.

 

I'm told that at one time kids weren't in school until after Labor Day and were out by Memorial Day.

[Iwritecode]

My girlfriend is a middle school math teacher. She said that if this change happens, she will find a new profession.

 

I've often thought about going into teaching because I'd actually make more money.

[southsider2k5]

Many studies have shown that the level of retention for students who have shorter, but more frequent breaks is higher, versus those who get a long break off all at one time.

 

The biggest problem with changing the school year is the NEA. Most local groups do not want to give up the long break, even if the number of days in the school year would actually be the same. Many teachers currently use that break to either work another job, or teach at summer school, to make extra money. Along the summer school theme, losing the summer would absolutely destroy the pass/fail rates of many schools who force "failing" students to take summer school in order to move onto, or test out of, the classes or tests they need to pass.

 

Personally, I think "year round" education is a great idea, I just don't see it happening.

[MHizzle85]

I'm told that at one time kids weren't in school until after Labor Day and were out by Memorial Day.

That's how they do it at my college. (Columbia)

[smalls2598]

Yeah, it will suck only doing 3 lesson plans a week as opposed to 5 and finishing the school year on May 15.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but what you are proposing is not the same as what the Education Chief mentioned in that article.

 

What I do know is that teachers work their asses off (at least the one's I know do). My girlfriend basically spends 7:30 am to 4 pm each day at school, and even longer if there are meetings or tutoring. She also has to spend hours at home grading tests/quizzes/homework, getting report cards done, setting up meetings with parents, and various other things i never even thought of before i dated a teacher. And she puts in numerous hours on the weekend planning for the next week's lesson plans.

 

She is truly exhausted by time the work week is over. It's not easy being a teacher, especially when kids do not want to learn. I'm sure some teachers have it easier, whether because they've been doing it longer or at a better school where kids actually do want to achieve good grades and strive to set themselves up for high school or college.

 

She enjoys teaching, she loves it when students "get it" and it's great to see student's minds grow. But she busts her butt for 9 months of the year to achieve those things. She looks forward to her 3 months of rest. Taking that away would make her question if she would continue to be a teacher, because all the stress would kill her if it were year round.

Edited March 2, 2009 by smalls2598