shago Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 What is it with this guy? Why are the White Sox continuing to use this stiff/forget about re-signing him... He's been a stiff all his career. Fan blogs across the web from his time in Houston, Oakland, NY, etc summarized as follow: "Our stance is that Octavio Dotel is the worst closer of alltime and a disgrace to the Green and Gold" - Sep '04 I don't understand it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderBolt Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 Octavio Dotel always had a live arm. When he came up all of his pitches moved like crazy, especially his slider. When his injury problems began to crop up he lost a lot of that movement, causing him to hang (what seems to be about) 25% of his pitches if not more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scenario Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (La Marr Hoyt HOF @ Mar 1, 2009 -> 11:29 AM) What is it with this guy? Why are the White Sox continuing to use this stiff/forget about re-signing him... He's been a stiff all his career. Fan blogs across the web from his time in Houston, Oakland, NY, etc summarized as follow: "Our stance is that Octavio Dotel is the worst closer of alltime and a disgrace to the Green and Gold" - Sep '04 I don't understand it... Holy overreaction Batman... A guy with a 3.76 career ERA is "the worst closer of all-time"... And you quote a five year old post from an Oakland fan blog to provide support for your point? Edited March 2, 2009 by scenario Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderBolt Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 I'll agree with Scenario here. Dotel is a fairly solid reliever and is probably the third or fourth best option in our pen. Despite his tendency to hang pitches, he still has tremendous ability as a strikeout pitcher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 Dotel is also supposedly working exclusively on his changeup this spring, so he may get shelled a lot trying to nail it down. I remember in 05 everyone was worried about Contreras during the spring because he was getting shelled, and it turned out he was working on his different forkballs and also trying to stop tipping his pitches. It seemed to work out ok that year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 Dotel was one of our most successful relievers last year before his dead arm period over the final couple months, I'd say that's to be expected when a reliever in his mid 30's tops 40 IP over a 2 1/2 month span less than 2 years following Tommy John surgery. Scott Linebrink is also not a very good closer, same applied to Latroy Hawkins and well the vast majority of effective relief pitchers. Failing as a closer doesn't make you a bum or a bad reliever. If anyone applies any sort of significance to Dotel's first two spring outings then, well, I just feel sorry for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 Well it is March 1. 92 k in 67 IP with a .208 BAA in 2008. Yeah, he's really bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 Dotel had a handful of super megafail outings last summer which I think distorts peoples' opinion of him. I did laugh out loud at the quoting of some random messageboard chatter though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Mar 1, 2009 -> 12:33 PM) Well it is March 1. 92 k in 67 IP with a .208 BAA in 2008. Yeah, he's really bad. Through his first 57 outings of 2008: 53.2 IP, 37 H, 24 BB, 74 K, 12.4 K/9, 3.19 ERA, 1.14 WHIP, .189 BAA, .609 OPS, 27/36 inherited runners stranded Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 QUOTE (lostfan @ Mar 1, 2009 -> 12:34 PM) Dotel had a handful of super megafail outings last summer which I think distorts peoples' opinion of him. I did laugh out loud at the quoting of some random messageboard chatter though. a 5 year old quote at that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 I think this is a Soxtalk record... a guy getting thrown under the bus for two full innings in spring training. This has been a true Real Men of Genius. Congratulations go out to you Mr Sports Drama Queen Based on Minuscule Sample Size. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Mar 1, 2009 -> 01:13 PM) I think this is a Soxtalk record... a guy getting thrown under the bus for two full innings in spring training. This has been a true Real Men of Genius. Congratulations go out to you Mr Sports Drama Queen Based on Minuscule Sample Size. "Mr can't-stand-the-mere-presence-of-pitchers-getting-shelled- in-spring-training guy!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Mar 1, 2009 -> 01:13 PM) I think this is a Soxtalk record... a guy getting thrown under the bus for two full innings in spring training. This has been a true Real Men of Genius. Congratulations go out to you Mr Sports Drama Queen Based on Minuscule Sample Size. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBigHurt Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 Oh? Do tell... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 QUOTE (lostfan @ Mar 1, 2009 -> 12:34 PM) Dotel had a handful of super megafail outings last summer which I think distorts peoples' opinion of him. I did laugh out loud at the quoting of some random messageboard chatter though. I think this does get at something many of us noticed last year with Dotel: you can tell right away if he has it or not. You only need one batter to see if he's going to do well, or get shelled. There never seemed to be an in-between. But he's darn good, overall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCSox Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 QUOTE (lostfan @ Mar 1, 2009 -> 10:34 AM) Dotel had a handful of super megafail outings last summer which I think distorts peoples' opinion of him. I think that last season is a good indication of what we'll get from Dotel this year. At times, he'll be nails. At other times, he'll get shelled. He hasn't been consistently good since blowing out his elbow and losing a good 5-6 mph off of his fastball, and I don't see that changing any time soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 I like Dotel and think he's quite good. It might have something to do with the day I got drunk with him and smoked cigars. But I like him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderBolt Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Mar 2, 2009 -> 12:11 PM) I like Dotel and think he's quite good. It might have something to do with the day I got drunk with him and smoked cigars. But I like him. Did you also happen to eat raw meat off his feet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 QUOTE (WCSox @ Mar 1, 2009 -> 01:09 PM) I think that last season is a good indication of what we'll get from Dotel this year. At times, he'll be nails. At other times, he'll get shelled. He hasn't been consistently good since blowing out his elbow and losing a good 5-6 mph off of his fastball, and I don't see that changing any time soon. IMO, it will really help Dotel if he's a 7th inning guy who we can swap in and out more easily than if he's an 8th inning guy. Right handers hit under .200 against him last year with a .654 OPS. It's when we start saying "The whole inning is yours" that he gets in to more trouble. He was at his worst last year in late July and for the month of August, and that was conveniently the month and a half that Linebrink missed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scenario Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 QUOTE (WCSox @ Mar 1, 2009 -> 03:09 PM) I think that last season is a good indication of what we'll get from Dotel this year. At times, he'll be nails. At other times, he'll get shelled. He hasn't been consistently good since blowing out his elbow and losing a good 5-6 mph off of his fastball, and I don't see that changing any time soon. I recall him hitting 94-95mph last year... not once in awhile either, but pretty consistently. The problem wasn't losing oomph on his fastball. The problem is he was overly dependent on it when he fell behind in counts... which got him in trouble when good hitters knew what was coming. Hopefully his work on a changeup this spring will make him a little less predictable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Mar 1, 2009 -> 06:33 PM) Well it is March 1. 92 k in 67 IP with a .208 BAA in 2008. Yeah, he's really bad. I thought he did just fine for the Sox except he had a tendency to give up the long ball. But, he filled the role he was supposed to fill and that ain't all bad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paint it Black Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 I always rely on opinions from 2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan101 Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 (edited) I'm worried about him a bit because he's aging and he fell apart late last season, but that has nothing to do with what he does this spring. I want to see what Dotel's fastball is registering on the radar gun at in April and see a few outings in the regular season before I panic. He was fantastic for the first few months of last season, and we can only hope he finds that rhythm again this season. That arm has a lot of innings on it obviously, and that's the biggest concern, but we won't be able to find out if he has it again or not based on what he does this spring. I love the title of this thread though, it's very punny. Edited March 2, 2009 by whitesoxfan101 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 Worst.Thread.Ever Let it die people Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 I JUST got the joke in the title. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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