Wilson "the colander" Betemit, Owens and other thoughts

[Cubano]

This guy looked horrible today. He played 20 games in the D.R. winter league. He is ahead of many in camp that have not play a game during the winter. Guillen said after watching Viciedo one game that he needs to work on his defense. I want to see what he has to say about his super utility Betemit. Last year, Guillen said Fields was bad. Now, he is OK mysteriously.

 

Owens is always the same. He is not young anymore. How about Lexei to CF and Beckman at SS? Fields and Viciedo make the team and start releasing players that have done nothing for years.

 

What are the Sox going to do next year with Beckman and Alexei in SS? Are they going to move Alexei to another position in 2010? Do it now!

 

Play the young guys now.

 

The Sox will sell more tickets with the young guys than with the old guys. You may not win today, but in 2010 watch out with young guys with one year at the MLB level.

 

 

I miss Uribe by watching Betemit today.

Edited March 2, 2009 by Cubano

[justBLAZE]

Agree, Betemit looked awful out there.

 

From Cowley FWIW,

 

"Betemit talked Ozzie Guillen into believing he can play shortstop ... Two errors already today, and it doesn't look like he can."

 

 

[Princess Dye]

So who for sure can backup ss??

[justBLAZE]

So who for sure can backup ss??

 

Lillibridge is a shortstop but I'm hearing he's not having a great start.

 

It is only the first week of ST, let these guys get in their rhythm.

[lostfan]

I'll be more concerned with Betemit if it's 3 weeks into March and he's still doing it.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

This guy looked horrible today. He played 20 games in the D.R. winter league. He is ahead of many in camp that have not play a game during the winter. Guillen said after watching Viciedo one game that he needs to work on his defense. I want to see what he has to say about his super utility Betemit. Last year, Guillen said Fields was bad. Now, he is OK mysteriously.

 

Owens is always the same. He is not young anymore. How about Lexei to CF and Beckman at SS? Fields and Viciedo make the team and start releasing players that have done nothing for years.

 

What are the Sox going to do next year with Beckman and Alexei in SS? Are they going to move Alexei to another position in 2010? Do it now!

 

Play the young guys now.

 

The Sox will sell more tickets with the young guys than with the old guys. You may not win today, but in 2010 watch out with young guys with one year at the MLB level.

 

 

I miss Uribe by watching Betemit today.

Cubano your bias is showing. It's understandable you want your countryman to win the 3rd base job or that you feel Guillen is being a little harsh on Viciedo about his fielding and all of sudden Fields seems to be the front runner for the job. It's not so mysterious that Fields is being praised for being better now. He had physical problems last year. In the winter he had knee surgery and Lasik eye procedure. He showed up very early and worked very hard with Cora who said now that he is healthy he looks very much improved.

 

I know many of the posters have led you to believe that Fields is being handed the 3rd base job but those same posters have also said that Beckham probably isn't ready for the Major Leagues. Myself , I think it's possible both Viciedo and Beckham can make the team if they have truly outstanding springs. The Sox signed Dayan for 4 years so I'm sure they want a return on their investment as soon as possible. Beckham is a few years older than Dayan and hasn't even had a season in AA ball. It's only truly rare talent that can be totally unknown one year and play in the Majors the next. Viciedo has a huge mountain to climb in that regard. Maybe Viciedo will be the outfielder to replace Dye or more likely left field if Quentin plays right.

 

Where Beckham ends up playing is any ones guess. He could play SS though most scouts saw him as a future 2nd baseman or he could probably play 3rd too.

 

Betemit is a known quantity who has shown to be a reliable and versatile backup, probably not a SS but certainly adequate at 3rd and 1st and possibly 2nd.

 

It's very possible things will work out the way you want just not as soon as you want.

[joejoesox]

trying to be as objective and rational as i can here

 

viciedo reminded me more of vladimir guerrero today than manny ramirez, he was swinging at pitches way out of the zone as if he wasn't recognizing them at all

 

with that said, i'm not drawing any harsh conclusions after seeing him in TWO AT-BATS, especially given the enormous pressure this young kid is under right now which could easily be taking him out of his own element, affecting his hitting

 

knowing what we have right now, Josh Fields will get the 3B job out of spring training because this team pretty much owes it to him (for what it's worth, Williams said at Sox Fest this year that he felt bad for Josh not being given a chance in 2008 because Crede was coming back supposedly healthy), as he performed rather well in 2007 (his K numbers were atrocious, and his average wasn't very good, but he's shown he can hit big-league pitching and hit with incredible power) and as Stoney says, if you can hit in the big leagues, a team will find a position for you to play at

 

the 3B job this spring isn't really a competition, as I feel Fields could play rather poorly overall compared to Viciedo, and still win the job out of spring due to what the team knows of Josh's capabilities, Viciedo right now is a huge unknown and even more-so when april comes around

 

right now, none of us here can say which player is truly better at 3rd, offensively and defensively. all we know is, the White Sox know what they're getting from Fields and I believe Viciedo would have to play at least similar defense, and absolutely crush Fields offensive production this spring to draw any significant attention towards being the starter in 2009

[daa84]

betemit isn't a great defender, mainly cuz of his range (especially at short) but frankly throughout his career he has never really been that error prone and i think yesterday was basically just some mental lapses as part of ST.....at this point in his career you probably don't want him at SS, but if lillibridge doesn't make the team, you may have no other choice when alexei gets a day off....

[elrockinMT]

Agree, Betemit looked awful out there.

 

From Cowley FWIW,

 

"Betemit talked Ozzie Guillen into believing he can play shortstop ... Two errors already today, and it doesn't look like he can."

 

 

Betemit did look horrible. But, Owens wasn't that bad. All we saw from Beckham was that homer and all it did was spark some life into the Sox offensively so let's not get carried away . Plus it's possible Beckham might be looked at long trm for another position like 2B or maybe 3B?

[elrockinMT]

So who for sure can backup ss??

 

 

I agree with Cubano: I miss Juan Uribe

[soxfan3530]

calm down guys. we are a week into spring training and he is a backup player!

[Cubano]

I am not being vias guys. It may seem that way for some of you. I have mentioned what happened and what I see. If Viciedo does not do good, then he needs to go to the minors. I have expressed these thoughts before.

 

Let's rewind Viciedo's two AB.

 

First AB: Swing an slider outside the strike zone. He missed a fastball around the middle of the plate. He fouled that pitch. Kuroda threw another slider outside to put him away and he did not bait. That was pitch recognition and making adjustments. He ran the count 2 and 2 or 1 and 2 before flying to short CF.

 

Second AB vs Milton this time. Swang at a low ball for strike one and swang a slightly high fastball for strike three.

 

Guillen said the pitchers do not know him. It goes both ways too.

 

 

If Beckham will be move to second, why is he playing SS now. Are we going to bring him without playing significant time at 2B and hand him that position?

 

So the Sox critized certain players for having a shaking defense and are willing to bring up a guy with very little experience at 2B. I am assuming this will happen.

 

 

[Balta1701]

If Beckham will be move to second, why is he playing SS now. Are we going to bring him without playing significant time at 2B and hand him that position?

 

So the Sox critized certain players for having a shaking defense and are willing to bring up a guy with very little experience at 2B. I am assuming this will happen.

Beckham should need an OPS in ST of 2.500 before we start talking about him as the starting 2b to begin this year.

[Kyyle23]

I am not being vias guys. It may seem that way for some of you. I have mentioned what happened and what I see. If Viciedo does not do good, then he needs to go to the minors. I have expressed these thoughts before.

 

Let's rewind Viciedo's two AB.

 

First AB: Swing an slider outside the strike zone. He missed a fastball around the middle of the plate. He fouled that pitch. Kuroda threw another slider outside to put him away and he did not bait. That was pitch recognition and making adjustments. He ran the count 2 and 2 or 1 and 2 before flying to short CF.

 

Second AB vs Milton this time. Swang at a low ball for strike one and swang a slightly high fastball for strike three.

 

Guillen said the pitchers do not know him. It goes both ways too.

 

 

If Beckham will be move to second, why is he playing SS now. Are we going to bring him without playing significant time at 2B and hand him that position?

 

So the Sox critized certain players for having a shaking defense and are willing to bring up a guy with very little experience at 2B. I am assuming this will happen.

 

 

Yes you are. Your comments(as well as this thread) about Betemit started immediately after joesaiditstrue stated that there is no way that Viciedo makes the club out of spring training in the game thread yesterday.

Edited March 2, 2009 by kyyle23

[Dick Allen]

I am not being vias guys. It may seem that way for some of you. I have mentioned what happened and what I see. If Viciedo does not do good, then he needs to go to the minors. I have expressed these thoughts before.

 

Let's rewind Viciedo's two AB.

 

First AB: Swing an slider outside the strike zone. He missed a fastball around the middle of the plate. He fouled that pitch. Kuroda threw another slider outside to put him away and he did not bait. That was pitch recognition and making adjustments. He ran the count 2 and 2 or 1 and 2 before flying to short CF.

 

Second AB vs Milton this time. Swang at a low ball for strike one and swang a slightly high fastball for strike three.

 

Guillen said the pitchers do not know him. It goes both ways too.

 

 

If Beckham will be move to second, why is he playing SS now. Are we going to bring him without playing significant time at 2B and hand him that position?

 

So the Sox critized certain players for having a shaking defense and are willing to bring up a guy with very little experience at 2B. I am assuming this will happen.

 

Viciedo had a bad game, maybe he should go to rookie ball. The point is everyone is going to have a bad game. Everyone is going to have several bad games. A veteran kicking a couple balls in an exibition game on March 1 is no reason to get your blood pressure at stroke levels. He's been a big leaguer for several years, he is obviously better than what he showed Sunday.

 

Maybe its just me, but I have the feeling if Betimet was Cuban you wouldn't be jumping all over him. You seem to make excuses for Viciedo's failures but have no patience for anyone else's. Alexei Ramirez was hitting below .200 a month and a half into the 2008 season, was rookie ball the place for him? I've no problem with you being proud of your fellow Cubans, I'm glad you are, but I think you should be fair to the others.

Edited March 2, 2009 by Dick Allen

[Cubano]

Viciedo had a bad game, maybe he should go to rookie ball. The point is everyone is going to have a bad game. Everyone is going to have several bad games. A veteran kicking a couple balls in an exibition game on March 1 is no reason to get your blood pressure at stroke levels. He's been a big leaguer for several years, he is obviously better than what he showed Sunday.

 

Maybe its just me, but I have the feeling if Betimet was Cuban you wouldn't be jumping all over him. You seem to make excuses for Viciedo's failures but have no patience for anyone else's. Alexei Ramirez was hitting below .200 a month and a half into the 2008 season, was rookie ball the place for him?

 

Haven't I critized Viciedo's AB? Haven't I mentioned his swings out of the strike zone?

 

Alexei hitted below 200 for two month as a part time player and during cold weather. Guillen panicked with him.

 

By the way, when I write send Betemit to A ball or rookie ball is obviuosly a joke. If Viciedo misplayed a ball the other day and some want to send him to the minors then, Betemit should be sent to A ball or out of the Majors.

Edited March 2, 2009 by Cubano

[Dick Allen]

Haven't I critized Viciedo's AB? Haven't I mentioned his swings out of the strike zone?

 

Alexei hitted below 200 for two month as a part time player and during cold weather. Guillen panicked with him.

Its going to cold again the first 2 months this season, should Alexei go to rookie ball until it warms up? As for Viciedo, you make every excuse in the book. He doesn't know the pitchers. Its spring training, the pitchers don't have their best stuff yet either. These games, while entertaining, mean very little. There are tons of players who hit .400 in spring training and then stink when the season starts. There are also tons who can't do anything right in spring training and once the games count are pretty good. To put much weight in results this early during spring training, good or bad, especially for veteran players is nuts.

Edited March 2, 2009 by Dick Allen

[Cubano]

Its going to cold again the first 2 months this season, should Alexei go to rookie ball until it warms up? As for Viciedo, you make every excuse in the book. He doesn't know the pitchers. Its spring training, the pitchers don't have their best stuff yet either. These games, while entertaining, mean very little. There are tons of players who hit .400 in spring training and then stink when the season starts. There are also tons who can't do anything right in spring training and once the games count are pretty good. To put much weight in results this early during spring training, good or bad, especially for veteran players is nuts.

 

I modified my post before you posted yours.

 

I am well aware of all those things you mentioned. It seems that you are the one making excuses for other Major Leaguers bad plays. I have mentioned what have happened so far. It was painfull to watch Betemit yesterday. This type of play should not happen in MLB even in ST.

 

Veteran players should have free pass even they look sorry in the field. Let's make excuses for them. Players usually do not change much. You are who you are. If Betemit can not catch in SS in ST, he won't be good there in July.

 

Alexei may struggle for the first two month though he has a year playing in cold weather.

Edited March 2, 2009 by Cubano

[Dick Allen]

I modified my post before you posted yours.

 

I am well aware of all those things you mentioned. It seems that you are the one making excuses for other Major Leaguers bad plays. I have mentioned what have happened so far. It was painfull to watch Betemit yesterday. This type of play should not happen in MLB even in ST.

 

Veteran players should have free pass even they look sorry in the field. Let's make excuses for them. Players usually do not change much. You are who you are. If Betemit can not catch in SS in ST, he won't be good there in July.

 

Alexei may struggle for the first two month though he has a year playing in cold weather.

Errors happen. Even the greatest fielders of all time screw up plays. Obviously Betimet should have made a couple of more plays yesterday, but these games do not count. I am not worried. He's never been known as a Gold Glove type fielder, but he's certainly not as bad as what he appeared yesterday. Its one game on March 1st.

[Cubano]

I've no problem with you being proud of your fellow Cubans, I'm glad you are, but I think you should be fair to the others.

 

 

I can not watch Contreras pitch when he throw 200 pitches in 5 innings. I am new to this forum and last year he was out. That is why you have not read anything from me about it.

[elrockinMT]

I can not watch Contreras pitch when he throw 200 pitches in 5 innings. I am new to this forum and last year he was out. That is why you have not read anything from me about it.

 

 

You are entitled to your opinion Cubano just like everyone else so I have no problem with your posts. I would like to know from you what you might see as Dayan Viciedo's ceiling this year? Do you think he can make adjustments to major league pitching and stick with the Sox or have to go to AAA ball? I think Alexei started somewhat slowly last year, but he made adjustments. Is it possible Dayan can also? I for one thought Alexei Ramirez was a very exciting player and did very well for the club. Viva beisbol! Viva Los Blanco Calcetines! (is that the right word?)

Edited March 2, 2009 by elrockinMT

[caulfield12]

Calcetines Blancos, lol

[WHITESOXRANDY]

1. I don't believe that there is any chance that Viciedo makes the team. The Sox are not going to let him sit on the bench and he's not ready to be an everyday player at any position.

 

2. Lillibridge will almost surely be the backup SS unless he can't hit at all.

 

3. Betemit makes the team as the primary backup at 3b and 1b.

 

4. I love Beckham and think he'll be great but there's no way that he makes the team. He needs more time.

 

5. Getz and Nix? We'll see. My guess is that Getz ends up starting at 2B and Nix goes to AAA unless he really impresses.

[Cubano]

You are entitled to your opinion Cubano just like everyone else so I have no problem with your posts. I would like to know from you what you might see as Dayan Viciedo's ceiling this year? Do you think he can make adjustments to major league pitching and stick with the Sox or have to go to AAA ball? I think Alexei started somewhat slowly last year, but he made adjustments. Is it possible Dayan can also? I for one thought Alexei Ramirez was a very exciting player and did very well for the club. Viva beisbol! Viva Los Blanco Calcetines! (is that the right word?)

 

 

Who knows what he might do? So far he is hitting 375 in 8 AB with a homer. This game is about making adjustments. This kid has been under heavy training since he was much younger. He has shown the power to the opposite field. That is a big plus. He can catch up with a big league fast ball. He won't be a gold glove 3B but he be alright. He has played RF and I do not like the fact that Guillen refuses to play him there. He may do nothing in the Majors and he may not do nothing in AAA or AA. But I think he can do well. He is young and coming to age. I just compare him to other cuban defectors stats wise in Cuba and what they have done in the USA (Majors, AAA, AA). Viciedo should hold his ground. At least, that is the probability.

 

Fields just put more presure on Viciedo today. Let see how he responds.

Edited March 3, 2009 by Cubano

[lostfan]

I can not watch Contreras pitch when he throw 200 pitches in 5 innings. I am new to this forum and last year he was out. That is why you have not read anything from me about it.

For Contreras to throw 200 pitches that's what, 4 hours? Jose works soooooooo sloowwwwwww.