Wilson "the colander" Betemit, Owens and other thoughts

[SoxAce]

Fields just put more presure on Viciedo today. Let see how he responds.

In real fairness, it was Fields job to lose anyway but here's a recent article.

Fields strengthens case for third base.

I'm a big Fields fan and I know he's gonna surprise alot of people this season. (ima go on a limb and say he gets "around" the .780-.810 ops mark) The only thing I hate is that Wise is really getting Ozizie's praise. Unless they take BA and Wise, (let Owens go on waivers/will probably be back with us to AAA) I do not want to see Wise on this roster, let alone starting in CF on opening day. I do prefer him over Owens, despite JO being younger.

[SouthsideDon48]

Who knows what he might do? So far he is hitting 375 in 8 AB with a homer. This game is about making adjustments. This kid has been under heavy training since he was much younger. He has shown the power to the opposite field. That is a big plus. He can catch up with a big league fast ball. He won't be a gold glove 3B but he be alright. He has played RF and I do not like the fact that Guillen refuses to play him there. He may do nothing in the Majors and he may not do nothing in AAA or AA. But I think he can do well. He is young and coming to age. I just compare him to other cuban defectors stats wise in Cuba and what they have done in the USA (Majors, AAA, AA). Viciedo should hold his ground. At least, that is the probability.

 

Fields just put more presure on Viciedo today. Let see how he responds.

 

Hey Cubano, I have a question for you:

 

If you personally watched Viciedo play 3rd base in Cuba, how good is his defense compared to Edwin Encarnacion of the Reds?

 

I think Viciedo will hit very good, but I wonder about his defense sometimes and whether his defense will make him the AL-version of Encarnacion.

[Cubano]

Hey Cubano, I have a question for you:

 

If you personally watched Viciedo play 3rd base in Cuba, how good is his defense compared to Edwin Encarnacion of the Reds?

 

I think Viciedo will hit very good, but I wonder about his defense sometimes and whether his defense will make him the AL-version of Encarnacion.

 

Tele Rebelde, the channel that broadcast cuban season baseball games, only shows a game per day except Mondays which is the day off. There are 8 games going on but only one gets televised. Therefore, I have seen Viciedo, but not as often as I wish. Remember, he was very young playing among grown men. The cuban ball varies from season to season. Now, they are playing with the japanese Mizuno. In the past, they have played with a cuban made ball (piece of crap) and a chinese made ball (we know most things from China are not good). Unlike the Rawling ball which travels longer and faster, these balls are not that great in that respect. Viciedo played a good portion with the cuban and chinese ball. Also, the MLB hitters should be stronger than cubans as a general rule. Cubans are not 6-4 usually. We are 6-0 in average. Therefore, connections should get to Viciedo at 3B quicker in MLB. He should be alright because he is maturing as a baseball player. Once I posted his stats in Cuba. I am at work now and I do not have the stats with me.

 

He has done fine the few games I have seen him. I have a coulpe of old games of Villa Clara. I have to watch them to see.

Edited March 4, 2009 by Cubano

[witesoxfan]

In real fairness, it was Fields job to lose anyway but here's a recent article.

Fields strengthens case for third base.

I'm a big Fields fan and I know he's gonna surprise alot of people this season. (ima go on a limb and say he gets "around" the .780-.810 ops mark) The only thing I hate is that Wise is really getting Ozizie's praise. Unless they take BA and Wise, (let Owens go on waivers/will probably be back with us to AAA) I do not want to see Wise on this roster, let alone starting in CF on opening day. I do prefer him over Owens, despite JO being younger.

 

It's not really going out on a limb predicting that he'll repeat his rookie year. Going out on a limb would be predicting that he puts up an .850+ OPS. Going out on a limb would also be predicting the exact opposite, but you obviously do not feel that way.

[YASNY]

Guillen won't play Dayan in RF because of a guy named Jermaine Dye. He won't get to play in LF because of Carlos Quentin. Cubano, you add a lot to this board but saying that it makes you mad because Ozzie won't give him a shot in RF really proves your obvious pro-Cuban player bias.

[Dick Allen]

According to Cowley, Viciedo left early yesterday:

 

Viciedo — The bat is as good as advertised, maybe even better. Defensively, Viciedo has a lot of work to do. Leaving the facility Monday, when he was scheduled for extra work in the weight room, didn’t help. The kid can be a star in the next few years, but don’t be surprised if it happens at left field or first base.

 

I'm sure it will be addressed. Unless he really has a desire to spend a lot of time in Birmingham or Charlotte, he probably wants to stay out of Ozzie's doghouse.

Edited March 4, 2009 by Dick Allen

[caulfield12]

By the way, shouldn't it be Wilson "The Reverse Seive" Betemit?

Just to be technical!

 

[SouthsideDon48]

Guillen won't play Dayan in RF because of a guy named Jermaine Dye. He won't get to play in LF because of Carlos Quentin. Cubano, you add a lot to this board but saying that it makes you mad because Ozzie won't give him a shot in RF really proves your obvious pro-Cuban player bias.

 

I'm not siding with anyone here, but think how much it might help the team if Viciedo plays on the Sox as some sort of super-utility player.

 

Since it seems like he'll have trouble winning a starting job, Viciedo can prove valuable to the team if he can play 1b/3b/lf/rf/dh. That way, all the regulars like Jermaine, Quentin, Fields, Konerko, and Thome will play everyday except for the occasional day off, which is when Viciedo will fill in. That's 5 positions, so if we assume that out of 10 games, that each of the 5 starters play 9, and take 1 day off every 10 games, then Viciedo can play 5 games out of every 10 games, or something like that.

 

That's exactly why I love super-utility players, especially if they're good.

 

The Sox just need to have Viciedo play a couple of those positions in spring training to see if he can even play those positions, though.

[SouthsideDon48]

According to Cowley, Viciedo left early yesterday:

 

Ugh, Viciedo better have a good excuse, or Ozzie will never let him live it down. I hope Viciedo aint developing an attitue.

Edited March 4, 2009 by SouthsideDon48

[witesoxfan]

I'm not siding with anyone here, but think how much it might help the team if Viciedo plays on the Sox as some sort of super-utility player.

 

Since it seems like he'll have trouble winning a starting job, Viciedo can prove valuable to the team if he can play 1b/3b/lf/rf/dh. That way, all the regulars like Jermaine, Quentin, Fields, Konerko, and Thome will play everyday except for the occasional day off, which is when Viciedo will fill in. That's 5 positions, so if we assume that out of 10 games, that each of the 5 starters play 9, and take 1 day off every 10 games, then Viciedo can play 5 games out of every 10 games, or something like that.

 

That's exactly why I love super-utility players, especially if they're good.

 

The Sox just need to have Viciedo play a couple of those positions in spring training to see if he can even play those positions, though.

 

Even if he got every one of those players' days off, he would still only be looking at something around 70-80 games, which hurts the rest of the bench because none of them get any playing time and, by moving around the diamond so much, then hurts his development as the main priority with Viciedo should be defense at 3B or in the OF.

 

The biggest value Viciedo brings to the Sox right now is at 3B, so there is no reason they shouldn't keep him there for ST and all of his time at Birmingham/Charlotte. If he proves he absolutely can't handle it, then you consider a move to the outfield. If he can't do that, then, and only then, does he end up at 1B.

[Princess Dye]

Wilson Bete-NO-mitt

Edited March 5, 2009 by Princess Dye

[Cubano]

Guillen won't play Dayan in RF because of a guy named Jermaine Dye. He won't get to play in LF because of Carlos Quentin. Cubano, you add a lot to this board but saying that it makes you mad because Ozzie won't give him a shot in RF really proves your obvious pro-Cuban player bias.

 

 

I have never written bench Dye or Quentin to play Viciedo. Have I? If so, please point cite where I posted such thing. I am saying if the Sox decides he is not the starting 3B then play him as a bench player resting Fields and Dye. He played 3B and RF in Cuba. He can DH and provide rest to the regular. Do not send him to the minors because he will adjust better with Contreras and Alexei. That is what I have written many times.

 

Guys you are killing me!

[caulfield12]

I have never written bench Dye or Quentin to play Viciedo. Have I? If so, please point cite where I posted such thing. I am saying if the Sox decides he is not the starting 3B then play him as a bench player resting Fields and Dye. He played 3B and RF in Cuba. He can DH and provide rest to the regular. Do not send him to the minors because he will adjust better with Contreras and Alexei. That is what I have written many times.

 

Guys you are killing me!

 

Cubano, I can't think of any time in the recent history of baseball a 19 or 20 year old top prospect has come up to start the season and sit on the bench.

 

Yes, he would be better off around Ramirez and Conteras, but he needs to get regular playing time...he's not a Brian Anderson or Brent Lillibridge that you just stick on the bench.

 

He theoretically could play LF, RF, DH, 1B and 3B...but that kind of does a disservice to his defensive development if you move him all around the field like that at his age. Ozzie said the same thing about Beckham, when he heard Beckham was willing to convert to 2B or 3B to get to the big leagues more quickly...something along the lines of "he's not a utility player." Just like Beckham at SS, they will stay with Viciedo at 3B for as long as they possibly can, waiting for him to become "MLB acceptable" before they throw him out there. As an offensive player, the last thing they would want would be for him to make an error every day at 3B and start letting the defensive lapses get into his game and affect his mental approach.

 

I also think that there's the perception they might need to "toughen him up" a little, send him to the minors, get his head out of the clouds a little bit...and just establish a routine of playing baseball every day, of getting used to the rhythm of playing a 140-162+ game season in the US. It wore down Ramirez in the second half last season.

 

 

[lostfan]

I have never written bench Dye or Quentin to play Viciedo. Have I? If so, please point cite where I posted such thing. I am saying if the Sox decides he is not the starting 3B then play him as a bench player resting Fields and Dye. He played 3B and RF in Cuba. He can DH and provide rest to the regular. Do not send him to the minors because he will adjust better with Contreras and Alexei. That is what I have written many times.

 

Guys you are killing me!

I respect your opinion but I disagree on the bold part. He's shown that his bat is impressive but he is not nearly developed enough as a professional ballplayer to sit on the bench. Players his age need to play regularly and if he's not starting in MLB for the Sox, the only other place he can do that is in Charlotte. Sure, having his fellow Cuban players helps, but that does nothing to replace the wasted chances for plate appearances and time in the field that I think is far more important.

 

Now, I'd feel different if he was 22, 23. Alexei was 26.

Edited March 5, 2009 by lostfan

[Cubano]

Caulfield12 and Lostfan:

 

I understand your opinion very well especially the everyday playing time issue for a 19-20 year old. However, let's not forget Viciedo is a White Sox for three reasons:

 

1. White Sox offered a competitive offer to him.

2. The appeal of the other Cuban in the White Sox organization.

3. The promise of a true competition for the 3B position.

 

I am sure Viciedo has heard all the talk about not being a true competition for the 3B job. I am sure he and his agent are thinking why we chose the White Sox over other teams especially when other teams offered more $$$$$$$$. The White Sox misled Viciedo and his agent. He would have signed for more money with X or Y team if I have to go to the minors anyways.

 

Do you guys believe the White Sox will compete with the other teams this year? I think by July, Dye and others will be gone. If Viciedo and Beckham have not played any other position in the minors, I hope they do not throw them anywhere else beside 3B and SS in the Majors out the blue. If there are concerns with Viciedo's ability to play 3B, then tell him to his face. You are assigned to 1B or the outfield starting today.

 

 

[Cowch]

Do you guys believe the White Sox will compete with the other teams this year? I think by July, Dye and others will be gone. If Viciedo and Beckham have not played any other position in the minors, I hope they do not throw them anywhere else beside 3B and SS in the Majors out the blue. If there are concerns with Viciedo's ability to play 3B, then tell him to his face. You are assigned to 1B or the outfield starting today.

 

Did you watch today's game? He made some slick plays at third.

Edited March 6, 2009 by Cowch

[elrockinMT]

Guillen won't play Dayan in RF because of a guy named Jermaine Dye. He won't get to play in LF because of Carlos Quentin. Cubano, you add a lot to this board but saying that it makes you mad because Ozzie won't give him a shot in RF really proves your obvious pro-Cuban player bias.

 

 

I think you have correctly stated the situation right there. Dayan is not at JD's level now anyway so it seems it is more appropriate to suggest Dayan is battling Fields. As stated it is Josh's position to lose. Dayan can hit homers as we have seen but consistency at the plate doesn't mean a homer or nothing. I think he needs to make consistent contact witjh the bat to be seen as a threat this season.

[Cubano]

Did you watch today's game? He made some slick plays at third.

 

I only watched the first game vs Kuroda and Milton not today's game vs the same guys. I am at work. Viciedo had not played for a long time before ST. I wished he had played a few games in the D.R. winter league like Alexei did. How did he look like today with the bat? Was he swinging at balls way out of the strike zone?

 

His page in WS.com has nothing. I have not seen his two HRs.

Edited March 6, 2009 by Cubano

[elrockinMT]

Did you watch today's game? He made some slick plays at third.

Hopefully there are some replays/highlights. I didn't get to see the game. I am out of town and I think if I did it right the game is on my DVR at home so maybe this weekend I'll watch it

[joejoesox]

I only watched the first game vs Kuroda and Milton not today's game vs the same guys. I am at work. Viciedo had not played for a long time before ST. I wished he had played a few games in the D.R. winter league like Alexei did. How did he look like today with the bat? Was he swinging at balls way out of the strike zone?

 

His page in WS.com has nothing. I have not seen his two HRs.

 

I only saw two of his atbats, in one it was a 3-pitch strikeout, swinging at some breaking balls away, the other was a flyout i believe

 

his defense looked pretty good today, very strong arm at 3b

[Cubano]

I only saw two of his atbats, in one it was a 3-pitch strikeout, swinging at some breaking balls away, the other was a flyout i believe

 

his defense looked pretty good today, very strong arm at 3b

 

 

Thanks!

[Cowch]

Thanks!

 

His first good play was grabbing a ball on a bad hop and getting the guy out anyway, second, and most impressive for his size to me, was diving for a liner jumping towards the mound onto the grass, and third was a throw just about from the foul line to get the guy out. This coming after I hear he's a bad defender, where did that come from?

 

As for his ABs today, it looks like he's still trying to get a feel for all the pitches. He's making contact in every AB though, and when he makes contact he really gets some wood on the ball.

[qwerty]

Caulfield12 and Lostfan:

 

I understand your opinion very well especially the everyday playing time issue for a 19-20 year old. However, let's not forget Viciedo is a White Sox for three reasons:

 

1. White Sox offered a competitive offer to him.

2. The appeal of the other Cuban in the White Sox organization.

3. The promise of a true competition for the 3B position.

 

I am sure Viciedo has heard all the talk about not being a true competition for the 3B job. I am sure he and his agent are thinking why we chose the White Sox over other teams especially when other teams offered more $$$$$$$$. The White Sox misled Viciedo and his agent. He would have signed for more money with X or Y team if I have to go to the minors anyways.

 

Do you guys believe the White Sox will compete with the other teams this year? I think by July, Dye and others will be gone. If Viciedo and Beckham have not played any other position in the minors, I hope they do not throw them anywhere else beside 3B and SS in the Majors out the blue. If there are concerns with Viciedo's ability to play 3B, then tell him to his face. You are assigned to 1B or the outfield starting today.

 

I doubt it. Viciedo would not start on any team this season whether you disagree with me or not.

 

Anything to do with viciedo with you simply blow out of proportion. He is not some almighty being. Believe me, no one is out to get him. You are asking and practically demanding for him to do something that has only been done 21 times since the draft has been introduced. Not realistic, sorry. He will have to get to the majors just like the nearly every other player, proove himself. He is young, raw, and very talented, there is no reason to rush him for the sake of rushing him. Thankfully the sox know better than to be that foolish.

 

Alexei cannot be compared to viciedo, their situtations are nothing alike, the age differential is just too vast.

[joejoesox]

during the dodgers/sox broadcast, their PBP/Color guys said

 

"Viciedo will start the season in Double-A Birmingham or Triple-A Charlotte"

 

maybe they heard something official and accidentally leaked this? i dont know, maybe they were talking out of their ass

[Cubano]

His first good play was grabbing a ball on a bad hop and getting the guy out anyway, second, and most impressive for his size to me, was diving for a liner jumping towards the mound onto the grass, and third was a throw just about from the foul line to get the guy out. This coming after I hear he's a bad defender, where did that come from?

 

As for his ABs today, it looks like he's still trying to get a feel for all the pitches. He's making contact in every AB though, and when he makes contact he really gets some wood on the ball.

 

 

Guillen