Wilson "the colander" Betemit, Owens and other thoughts

[caulfield12]

The teams that were in on Viciedo and that had the ability to outbid the White Sox, well, that was the Yankees and the Red Sox.

 

They have Alex Rodriguez and Mike Lowell at 3B, and Viciedo would have been facing even more unreasonable pressure and expectations in those markets. Torres knows this, and knows that having a Hispanic manager and coaches like Cora and then the other Cubans around would be the perfect situation for him.

 

You don't think Cashman would be a little gunshy about bringing another Cuban into NYC to open a new stadium at the age A-Rod (already the best prospect in baseball) did the same thing? That's just not reasonable. It seems we're into these bi-polar discussions about Viciedo. It's almost like you believe he's the Cuban Babe Ruth (like Torres) or you're in the Peter Bjarkman school/camp where he will be just another solid major leaguer, more like Kendry Morales. I think we've seen with those two homers and kind of power he has....and he played very well defensively, although he finally went hitless.

 

The thing is, if he's CLOSE to being as good as advetised, he will show it one way or the other, and the White Sox won't be able to hide him like teams used to do with their best prospects to keep other teams from drafting them (how Roberto Clemente was stashed away in Montreal...it seems impossible, as we live in the instant news/youtube/Internet age). No matter what happens with Viciedo, he will be getting a HUGE payday again at age 23, when most players have to wait until the late 20's for their first really big contract after their six years of mandatory service time.

 

I think the Astros were the only other team really serious about Viciedo, and their budget prevented the spending on even "value" players like Wigginton and Wolf that didn't have huge contract demands.

 

 

[Cubano]

Cualfield12:

 

Certainly, Viciedo does not have a place with the Yanks. Maybe, in Boston with Lowel in his way out soon. I think he will be a free agent soon, but I am not sure plus Boston wants to get rid of him. How about signing for less with other team for a chance to be in the MLB roster for that team? I do not know how many teams and how much those teams offered for sure. Anyways, let see what happens. I do not think Viciedo is the next Baby Ruth. I will never make those projections.

 

Qwerty:

 

I am not demanding he makes the team. I am just writing about the Sox saying first, Viciedo will have a chance to compete for the starting 3B job. Then, the same Sox saying the job will be handed to Fields in day two of the ST. If Fields performs better, he should start. If Viciedo performs better, then he should start.

 

I am done with this discussion.

Edited March 7, 2009 by Cubano

[SouthsideDon48]

Speaking of Wilson Betemit, has anyone noticed those cool white eyeglasses he wears while playing?

 

He reminds me of D-Von Dudley when he's wearing them, lol.

[GoodAsGould]

A lot of times "open competition" is very untrue. At the very least Fields came into spring training with a 70/30 advantage over Viciedo to start the year at 3B for the whitesox. That being said, if Fields struggles or if any of the following get hurt: Fields, Quentin, Dye, Konerko, and Thome..... Viciedo would be the first one up. Chances are on of the above will happen.

[Balta1701]

Certainly, Viciedo does not have a place with the Yanks. Maybe, in Boston with Lowel in his way out soon. I think he will be a free agent soon, but I am not sure plus Boston wants to get rid of him. How about signing for less with other team for a chance to be in the MLB roster for that team? I do not know how many teams and how much those teams offered for sure. Anyways, let see what happens. I do not think Viciedo is the next Baby Ruth. I will never make those projections.

Lowell is signed through the end of 2010 for $12 million a year, and Boston already has a DH who tends to be pretty good, so Lowell would have to be ridiculously bad for them to not play him. He's not going anywhere other than to the DL for the next 2 years.

[scenario]

I don't think there is/was any trickery or dishonesty in telling Viciedo or his agent that it was an open competition for 3B. I don't think there is any doubt that if Fields came to camp and struggled, and Viciedo outplayed him, that Viciedo would come north with the team.

 

But likewise, I don't think Viciedo, his agent, or anyone else should consider a stint in the minors as a bad thing either. He's 19. He looks like he has a great future ahead of him. I think it could be a HUGE mistake to push him ahead too fast and have his confidence destroyed by a level of competition and pitching he may not be ready for.

 

And isn't it true that Alexei was one of the first (if not THE first) position players from Cuba to ever jump to MLB without any time in the minors? If so, it may be unfair to try and hold a 19-year old kid to that standard. I mean... We're not expecting a relatively advanced 22 year old Gordon Beckham to make that jump even after he destroyed "major league ready" pitching in the Arizona Fall League. No one is suggesting a little time in the minors for him would be a bad thing. So why the double standard?

 

Let's make sure we're doing the right thing for both Dayan and the team. If that means spending a little time in the minors, so be it.

Edited March 7, 2009 by scenario

[Cubano]

Scenario,

 

Cuban players can not choose when to defect. Many of them defect while the MLB season is underway and teams have set up their budgets for the year already. In addition, Cubans are unable to sign right away and are out of baseball shape while waiting for the Draft or going to a third country. Language barrier have been another issue. Before 1996 (?), interantional baseball was played with aluminum bats. In Cuba hitters played with aluminum bats too. Many defectors that played most of the career with aluminum bats had a tough time in the USA adapting to the wooden bat. Only Jorge Toca and Rey Ordonez made it though Ordonez played only 4 years in Cuba. Toca played 8. Recent defectors have killed A, AA, AAA, MLB or Winter League pitching.

 

Kendry Morales was caught trying to defect in Panama. He was send back to Cuba. He was away from baseball and went to the D.R. He played a handfull games. He came to ST and hitted close to 400. His reward was to be sent down. Kotchman was the regular 1B. They had Tim Salmon who was running in one leg and was on his tour out. They had Rob Quinlan ahead of him. To sum up, Kendry was better than all these guys. Look at Kendry's minor league numbers and compare them to Kotchman's and you will see Kendry had better numbers. Kendry has more power than Kotchman and he is a switch hitter too. I thought Kendry had a chance to be the first one.

 

SS Yuniesky Betancourt made it after 3 months in the minors. He escaped Cuba to the USA. Then, he went to Mexico. He was an upcoming player for Villa Clara, but in Cuba there are players better than him now.

 

If the Cuban government and MLB go to bed together at the end of 2009, I garantee you that many Cubans could play straight to the Majors. Alexei already proved it. The veteran players will not make it because MLB and any employer discriminate agaisnt old people. The young guys will make it especially if an MLB team does not have a good player an any given position.

[Cubano]

Scenario,

 

I also forgot to mention the side of the contract for Cubans. We were paid pennies and still are under pay. In MLB, the bigger the contract the faster your promotion to the big club. I have a study about salaries and stats for Cuban and Japanese players. I have to update it to post it in my blog. The $$$ difference is so big and the stats difference is so small that is unreal. This is despite Cubans have lots of things against them and Japanese come with Hollywood Red Carpet style with garantee posittions, their family also come to the USA, MLB teams helped them with schools for their children, etc. I do not blame the Japanese because I think they have been taking advantage of MLB for good.

 

 

Viciedo got good money. Kendry did not. His agent is an accountant from Canada tha has a Cuban wife. Kendry is his first client. He subcontracted the negotiations to a Cuban baseball agent who was working for a mortgage company in Miami. Many Cubans players are with agents that do not have experience initially. They just want to escape and sometimes people helping them are not very experienced. Alexei did not get good money either.

Edited March 7, 2009 by Cubano

[Jimbo's Drinker]

Take a deep breath, Cubano.

[Soxbadger]

The reason why Japanese players get more money than Cuban's is due to the posting system. The Japanese leagues force MLB to pay huge amounts to get the rights to their super stars.

 

The only way Cuban's get to the US is by illegally defecting. When they come to US teams they are forced to take whatever they can get. There is no going back to Cuba to play (like Japanese players can do) they are stuck. So the US teams have much more power in negotiations and therefore use it to their advantage.

 

The bottom line is teams are in the business of making money. If they can make more money by giving out smaller contracts, they do it.

 

As to the rest, there is no reason for the Sox to hold back Viciedo. If he is good enough to play, he will be on the MLB team. If anything the Sox are being generous with him by not forcing him to do anything on the big league club. He will still get paid the same amount, he is not like a draft pick who gets a minor league salary versus an MLB one. He will make millions to get better and practice. One day he may make it in the MLB, but even if he never plays an inning he still will have millions.

 

Also if he is amazing and the Sox keep him in the minors, they are losing years on their contract as he will still hit FA at the same time.

 

Thus there is absolutely no reason that the Sox would hold back Viciedo, unless they thought it was in his best interest.

[Melissa1334]

The reason why Japanese players get more money than Cuban's is due to the posting system. The Japanese leagues force MLB to pay huge amounts to get the rights to their super stars.

 

The only way Cuban's get to the US is by illegally defecting. When they come to US teams they are forced to take whatever they can get. There is no going back to Cuba to play (like Japanese players can do) they are stuck. So the US teams have much more power in negotiations and therefore use it to their advantage.

 

The bottom line is teams are in the business of making money. If they can make more money by giving out smaller contracts, they do it.

 

As to the rest, there is no reason for the Sox to hold back Viciedo. If he is good enough to play, he will be on the MLB team. If anything the Sox are being generous with him by not forcing him to do anything on the big league club. He will still get paid the same amount, he is not like a draft pick who gets a minor league salary versus an MLB one. He will make millions to get better and practice. One day he may make it in the MLB, but even if he never plays an inning he still will have millions.

 

Also if he is amazing and the Sox keep him in the minors, they are losing years on their contract as he will still hit FA at the same time.

 

Thus there is absolutely no reason that the Sox would hold back Viciedo, unless they thought it was in his best interest.

fields is doing good and he should be the 3b. but where do u put viciedo?

[southsidehawkeye]

Another reason Cuban ball players get much less $$ than their Japanese counterparts are lack of reliable scouting. Its hard for MLB teams to be sure what they're getting with Cuban players, so it is very hard for them to cough up huge signing bonuses. Even after Alexei tore up spring training last year, there were a lot of people asking "what exactly do we have here?" - and no matter how good/bad Viciedo is in the remainder of this spring that question will pop up again.

 

Viciedo has looked great thus far, and as all Sox fans I hope that this continues. Nothing would be better than him and Fields both making a great case for the starting 3b spot, but in the end only one of them can have it and unfortunately for Viciedo Fields has already shown some success in Chicago so he holds the tiebreaker.

 

With that said, it would be very stupid for the Sox to "hold Viciedo back" in the minors, he is on a very limited time frame with this team at this point. If he feels he isn't being given a fair shot at the majors he will find someone who will give him that shot when his contract is up. The last thing the Sox want is for him to become the next superstar on someone else's team after they spent a fair amount of money bringing him into the league. If he proves he is ready for the MLB, the Sox will make room for him (by trading Konerko, Dye, or Thome if they are out of contention, or by plugging him in at 3b if Fields underperforms once the season starts, or by filling in while someone is on the DL - how many people have had to wait for someone to get hurt and then never look back??).

 

 

I'm hopeful that Viciedo will be the next great slugger for the Sox, but I am holding back judgement on if he is MLB ready at this point. Lets wait until the end of Spring Training and see where we stand then. As Carlos Quentin can tell you - situations can change in March, rapidly.

[caulfield12]

''It's crazy because it almost seems he was way out of position at second base,'' Sox outfielder Brian Anderson said. ''He was almost overqualified. You can just tell that he can cover more ground than what's really required at second base. He was probably feeling a little sheltered over there.

 

''He's going to be exciting to watch. I mean, people are going to see balls hit in the hole to his right that they thought were automatic hits, and he has the range and arm to make them outs.''

 

The more impressive endorsement has come from manager Ozzie Guillen -- someone who knows a little bit about playing shortstop.

 

''He's going to make people forget about Ozzie Guillen playing there,'' Guillen has said. cowley cst

 

Since we're on the subject of Cubans...

[NorthSideSox72]

fields is doing good and he should be the 3b. but where do u put viciedo?

In Birmingham or Charlotte, for now.

 

[southsider2k5]

Fields has totally out preformed Viciedo this point of spring training. Not only has he had a huge edge in the field, but he is out hitting him as well. Viciedo has the two impressive long balls, but not really much else. I know its a small sample size and all, but this really isn't a competition, in my mind, to this point.

[NorthSideSox72]

Fields has totally out preformed Viciedo this point of spring training. Not only has he had a huge edge in the field, but he is out hitting him as well. Viciedo has the two impressive long balls, but not really much else. I know its a small sample size and all, but this really isn't a competition, in my mind, to this point.

I don't think it ever was. I think that Viciedo and Flowers were both destined for the minors no matter what, so that they could work on their defense.

[caulfield12]

Fields has totally out preformed Viciedo this point of spring training. Not only has he had a huge edge in the field, but he is out hitting him as well. Viciedo has the two impressive long balls, but not really much else. I know its a small sample size and all, but this really isn't a competition, in my mind, to this point.

 

 

Actually, Viciedo has been playing very well defensively since the first 2-3 games out there. It is Flowers that has really been atrocious.

 

Josh has hit well, but he has been pulling everything. Yes, it seems he's quicker to the ball (with the exception of some wild strikeouts in his last game)...but everything he's hit has been to 3B/SS/LF. I would much prefer to see him sometimes take the ball to the opposite field, like Beckham and Ramirez are really good at. He seems to be pull hooking everything. If he can't go to the opposite field, they'll start throwing everything down and away and pepper him with offspeed junk like BA.

 

He has hit two of the most impressive homers of the spring, and he's got a cannon for an arm. In fact, his first step quickness at 3B is a little bit better than Josh already, just from what I've observed.

 

All that said, Fields has certainly done nothing to LOSE the job, but I wouldn't say he's totally dominated Viciedo, either. Viciedo's not like Konerko or Carlos Lee down there, that's for sure.

 

 

 

From Scott Merkin/chisox.com

Asked for the early surprise of camp, Walker paused momentarily but then selected Josh Fields' consistency at the plate as his choice. It's not so much about Fields picking up hits here and there but more a focus on the steadiness of his philosophy with the bat.

 

According to Fields, it's his approach with two strikes that has changed and left him more comfortable. Fields fanned over 100 times in each of his four full seasons in the White Sox organization, including 185 strikeouts over 578 at-bats between stops at Triple-A Charlotte and with the White Sox in 2007.

 

This new game plan has Fields shortening his stroke with two strikes and just trying to make contact. He struck out for the first two times this spring on Sunday against the Dodgers.

 

"I'm getting down in my stance, squatting more, and seeing the ball a lot better," Fields said. "And when I'm down there, I can't have a long swing.

 

"A lot of it is throwing the bat out there and making contact. I used to take big shots with two strikes, trying to hit it too far, but it makes a big difference getting the bat out there and giving yourself a chance.

 

"Put the ball in play and good things happen," Fields said. "A guy trips going for the ball or can't get to the ball. It ends up working out for you."

 

Better mechanics also have buoyed Fields' cause, according to Walker.

 

"Josh Fields has probably made the most improvement and solidified his mechanics and been as consistent as any player we have in camp," Walker said. "I think he's gotten more consistent with his lower body. He's in a better position to hit.

 

"In the past, he's done some things with his lower half that affected his swing plane. The talent has been there but his swing plane and lower half has been more consistent. So far he has been really good with it. He's a big strong kid and doesn't need a lot of extra, so we've been trying to calm that down and eliminate some of it. So far, he's looked as consistent as I've seen him."

Edited March 9, 2009 by caulfield12