Jayson Nix confident he can take second

[SoxAce]

Eh.. I see him more of a Dan Uggla clone, except with off the charts defense at second. The difference of course is, can he keep up the average and his overall hitting. Nix is a pure gap to gap hitter. He does have really good power though. With our park (or even Charlotte).. he will have fun raking. I just hope he can take a walk though, but his ops will always be nice/respectable.

[Balta1701]

I saw you make that comparison earlier, but it's also been stated that it appears it takes this guy some time to get acclimated to each level. It doesn't appear he got that time last year. It's hard for me to give him the time in the beginning of the season in such an important part of the lineup. If we are having an 07 year, than I'm fine, but even then...it's tough.

If Nix can continue hot hitting throughout the spring, then it'd be darn hard for me not to give him the shot.

[Milkman delivers]

I think Ozzie will make the right choice this year and start Anderson in CF. I think Getz will get the 2B job, and Lillibridge and Betemit will be on the bench.

[YASNY]

I think Ozzie will make the right choice this year and start Anderson in CF. I think Getz will get the 2B job, and Lillibridge and Betemit will be on the bench.

 

Basically, I agree with you. However, Nix may beat out Getz for the 2B job. Too early to call.

[Milkman delivers]

Basically, I agree with you. However, Nix may beat out Getz for the 2B job. Too early to call.

 

What happened to us?

[YASNY]

What happened to us?

 

You are finally getting smarter!

[bighurt4life]

I think Ozzie will make the right choice this year and start Anderson in CF. I think Getz will get the 2B job, and Lillibridge and Betemit will be on the bench.

 

That leaves us with one major problem, who is our leadoff??? Anderson definitely can't do it, and Getz is more of a #2 hitter. That's why I think that Jerry might be our starting CF although I'd rather go with BA in center and take our chances having Lexi or Getz/Nix leadoff.

[joejoesox]

the problem is our leadoff hitter candidates are: getz, lillibridge, owens

 

owens sucks at baseball, lillibridge hasn't really proven anything yet and neither has getz (both have speed)

 

lillibridge can play CF, SS, 2B, getz can only play 2B, owens can only "play" CF

 

hmm..

 

 

[caulfield12]

Well, Getz can play all over the diamond (like Betemit) and probably MORE effectively defensively, but I'm not sure we'd want him getting 15-25 starts at SS either. I'm not as concerned with him playing 3B. That seems to favor Lillibridge for two reasons...he can play a legit SS better than anyone on the roster defensively and he can also play CF, although he hasn't played there regularly since Univ. of Washington days and would need a refresher course before you just threw him out there...at least a couple of weeks playing CF.

 

Somehow I don't think we'll see that happen until they decide between Owens/Anderson/Wise...who they want to award CF to.

 

There seems to be a pretty big split on this board about 2B, with many favoring Nix (like me) and many preferring our own farmhand, Getz. Well, another argument in favor of Getz is that he's more of a "sure thing" than Lillibridge at this point to stick at the top of the order and to have the reasonable expectation he could hold his own. Then again, Lillibridge probably is more the profile of a typical leadoff hitter in terms of speed. It's an interesting argument back and forth that we'll have here the next four weeks or so.

[Milkman delivers]

You are finally getting smarter!

 

I thought it was just you mellowing out in your old age.

[Milkman delivers]

That leaves us with one major problem, who is our leadoff??? Anderson definitely can't do it, and Getz is more of a #2 hitter. That's why I think that Jerry might be our starting CF although I'd rather go with BA in center and take our chances having Lexi or Getz/Nix leadoff.

 

Cabrera wasn't a prototypical lead-off hitter last year. I'm sure Getz will do just fine, and much better than Owens, in that spot.

[scenario]

lillibridge can play CF, SS, 2B, getz can only play 2B, owens can only "play" CF

 

Not sure where the idea came from that Lillibridge can play multiple positions and Getz can't. Getz has played 2B, SS, 3B and OF in the minors. Lillibridge hasn't played any position other than SS in the minors... and he hasn't played OF since he was a sophomore in college over 5 years ago.

Edited March 5, 2009 by scenario

[caulfield12]

Scenario,

 

I think a lot of this is all about "perception." Fields and Viciedo will never be able to be decent defensive players. Getz is "scrappy/grinderish," whereas Lillibridge is "versatile/athletic." (Disclaimer: I haven't seen Getz play very much in person, so I couldn't tell you how much better Lillibridge is at SS, or if Getz could play CF, or he plays all those positions in the way that a Bip Roberts, Figgins, McEwing or Jose Oquendo did.) It does seem that some perceive Getz as a best-case scenario major league utility player, whereas others perceive him as the answer to our leadoff or #2 hole and want him to play in 135-145 games).

 

Because Carney Lansford made some comments, Nix is now the defensive player on our team. Some people think Alexei Ramirez was the best 2B in the American League last year, some think he was possibly the worst. That's not even getting into Brian Anderson...if nothing else, Owens/Fields/Anderson will all have their career tracks with the White Sox more firmly defined this season, for better or for worse.

 

There's no doubt that we have some major defensive concerns on the corners of the diamond and at catcher. So it would seem logical to want to have your best possible alignment up the middle, covering the widest degree of the field possible. That would seem to give the advantage to Ramirez, Nix and Brian Anderson, at this point in time (this was raised in another thread, basically how we don't have many strikeout pitchers, having lost Vazquez, and our defense will be even more critical than in past seasons...of course, Colon and Contreras could more than make up for the loss of Vazquez if they're anything like their former selves, because Floyd and Danks can pile up some K's when they're on and even Buerhle seems like he has more days where he'll get 5-6 k's compared to earlier in his career).

 

My questions would be the following:

 

1) Is Beckham going to be better than Ramirez at SS? If so, where do you put Ramirez, in CF, where he's going to be adequate/so-so offensively or second base, where he's going to be a much more dynamic player and more involved in the action on the field? The infield just seems to suit his personality more, at least to me.

 

2) Is there any serious consideration being given to letting Lillibridge start playing CF occasionally? If he doesn't make the team, will he play any other position than SS at Charlotte? Is Lillibridge better than Getz at 2B?

 

3) What is the behind-the-scenes thinking on Viciedo at this point? With Josh Fields seemingly holding his own offensively and defensively, do you look to trade Dye somehow and stick Viciedo in LF or RF to get his bat into the line-up this season...or do you play out the string with Thome/Konerko/Dye together for one final season? Would any GM dare trade a young pitcher like Homer Bailey at this point in time for Dye (even with a cash subsidy)?

 

4) Can Josh Kroeger play a competent enough CF that he will become a part of the OF conversation? That pretty much forces Getz/Lillibridge to be your leadoff man, and makes it a little harder on Nix. If Jordan Danks really takes off in AA this year, could he become part of the equation as early as 2009?

 

5) How far behind is John Shelby III in the mix?

 

6) Is the competition for back-up catcher really just Stewart and Miller? Will Armstrong get a real shot? Or is KW waiting in the weeds to pluck a particular player off the waiver wire?

 

 

[NorthSideSox72]

That leaves us with one major problem, who is our leadoff??? Anderson definitely can't do it, and Getz is more of a #2 hitter. That's why I think that Jerry might be our starting CF although I'd rather go with BA in center and take our chances having Lexi or Getz/Nix leadoff.

A leadoff hitter leads off once a game for sure, then the same % likelihood as everyone else. You don't dictate your roster by spot in the order. You get the best 9 guys you can, then put them in the order that makes the most sense.

 

[scenario]

What is the behind-the-scenes thinking on Viciedo at this point? With Josh Fields seemingly holding his own offensively and defensively, do you look to trade Dye somehow and stick Viciedo in LF or RF to get his bat into the line-up this season...or do you play out the string with Thome/Konerko/Dye together for one final season? Would any GM dare trade a young pitcher like Homer Bailey at this point in time for Dye (even with a cash subsidy)?

 

I'd be willing to bet that Viciedo starts the season in AA. And then if he does well there, he'd get promoted to AAA.

 

Why?

(1) Puts less pressure on him offensively and let's him work on his defense.

(2) Spanish speaking manager for the Barons this year.

 

If he does really well and/or the Sox create an opening via trades, Viciedo could end up in Chicago this year. But I just don't see him making the ballclub to start the season. Doesn't make sense from a roster management perspective.

 

Of course, I'd love to see him hit .400 for the rest of spring training and make the final roster decisions really difficult.

 

 

[bmags]

I'd be willing to bet that Viciedo starts the season in AA. And then if he does well there, he'd get promoted to AAA.

 

Why?

(1) Puts less pressure on him offensively and let's him work on his defense.

(2) Spanish speaking manager for the Barons this year.

 

If he does really well and/or the Sox create an opening via trades, Viciedo could end up in Chicago this year. But I just don't see him making the ballclub to start the season. Doesn't make sense from a roster management perspective.

 

Of course, I'd love to see him hit .400 for the rest of spring training and make the final roster decisions really difficult.

 

might that stadium destroy his confidence, though?

[Dick Allen]

A leadoff hitter leads off once a game for sure, then the same % likelihood as everyone else. You don't dictate your roster by spot in the order. You get the best 9 guys you can, then put them in the order that makes the most sense.

The leadoff hitter also bats in front of your best hitters and comes to the plate as much as anyone on your team. It should be a priority that that person is someone who gets on base more frequently, and probably in scoring position whether its hitting for extra bases or stealing, than most.

[scenario]

might that stadium destroy his confidence, though?

 

It didn't seem to hurt bangers like David Cook or Brandon Allen. They both had their best years there. I think the reason is that they focused on hitting line drives rather than trying to put the ball in the seats.

 

Cook even suggested in an interview that when he got promoted to AAA, he struggled more because he stopped thinking liner and was trying to take advantage of the Charlotte bandbox and hit the ball out.

Edited March 5, 2009 by scenario

[Balta1701]

might that stadium destroy his confidence, though?

When he's hitting balls 450 feet, what do you think?

[Chisoxfn]

I really like Chris Getz but I also know Getz could be an incredibly valuable utility guy and if Nix can hit and is anything like I've read about defensively than I'm really intrigued to see what he can do and if these adjustments are for real. Nix is a really good athlete and could be a welcome addition. I definately think the Sox have some pretty talented guys in Getz/Nix/Lillibridge (Getz clearly being the least talented of the bunch, but he just has a beautiful swing and the look of a guy who belongs). Although clearly none are what you would describe as top prospects (although two of the three are former top prospects) as they are all short in the tools department in an area or two.

[scenario]

I really like Chris Getz but I also know Getz could be an incredibly valuable utility guy and if Nix can hit and is anything like I've read about defensively than I'm really intrigued to see what he can do and if these adjustments are for real. Nix is a really good athlete and could be a welcome addition. I definately think the Sox have some pretty talented guys in Getz/Nix/Lillibridge (Getz clearly being the least talented of the bunch, but he just has a beautiful swing and the look of a guy who belongs). Although clearly none are what you would describe as top prospects (although two of the three are former top prospects) as they are all short in the tools department in an area or two.

 

Getz is definitely the least "toolsy" of the three.

 

But he might be the best OBP guy given his ability to hit for average + his very good plate discipline (more walks than Ks in his minor league career).

 

[caulfield12]

2B-303, SS-52, OF-15, 3B-6

 

About 81% of Getz's career games have been played at 2B. I think it would be a stretch to put him at 3B, 1B or in the outfield more than in "emergency" situations.

 

I was about to say that Betemit was superfluous, but he's really not, because he's the best back-up for Fields and Konerko at those positions, and his presence allows Viciedo to start the season in the minors as well.

 

Obviously, Lillibridge would be the best back-up at SS, the question is how much better Getz is than Betemit at that position? Is Getz even viewed as better at SS? I know Betemit took a lot of flak after his two error game, but the guy has 10X the experience at that position than Getz does.

 

SS-553, 3B-435, 1B-53, 2B-18, RF-1, LF-1, DH-1

If you look at Betemit, he obviously has more career experience on the left side of the infield, and at 1B. The guy was once the #8 prospect in all of baseball, even though it was 7 years ago (the same time Borchard was found on those lists).

Edited March 5, 2009 by caulfield12

[Kalapse]

2B-303, SS-52, OF-15, 3B-6

 

About 81% of Getz's career games have been played at 2B. I think it would be a stretch to put him at 3B, 1B or in the outfield more than in "emergency" situations.

 

I was about to say that Betemit was superfluous, but he's really not, because he's the best back-up for Fields and Konerko at those positions, and his presence allows Viciedo to start the season in the minors as well.

 

Obviously, Lillibridge would be the best back-up at SS, the question is how much better Getz is than Betemit at that position.

 

SS-553, 3B-435, 1B-53, 2B-18, RF-1, LF-1, DH-1

If you look at Betemit, he obviously has more career experience on the left side of the infield, and at 1B. The guy was once the #8 prospect in all of baseball, even though it was 7 years ago (the same time Borchard was found on those lists).

Given that Wilson Betemit will easily be the most competent and accomplished hitter on the bench it's really not possible for him to be superfluous. Even if he were without a position he'd still be valuable because of his power off the bench and ability to hit right handed pitching. A semi-platoon of Fields and Betemit at 3rd could be a pretty dangerous combination.

[scenario]

2B-303, SS-52, OF-15, 3B-6

 

About 81% of Getz's career games have been played at 2B. I think it would be a stretch to put him at 3B, 1B or in the outfield more than in "emergency" situations.

 

His minor league career numbers are skewed because of 1.5 seasons of nothing other than 2B.

 

But look at last year in comparison at AAA...

2B - 69 games (58%)

SS - 27 games (23%)

LF - 15 games (13%)

3B - 6 games (6%)

 

IMO, Buddy's boys were clearly preparing Getz for duty at multiple positions... or at least trying to determine his ability to do so.

[NorthSideSox72]

The leadoff hitter also bats in front of your best hitters and comes to the plate as much as anyone on your team. It should be a priority that that person is someone who gets on base more frequently, and probably in scoring position whether its hitting for extra bases or stealing, than most.

Absolutely. Which is why you want to pile high OBP guys in the front, ideally with some speed. Still doesn't change the fact that if you build your roster in terms of order slot, you are limiting yourself artificially.